I don't love the DSG

brons2

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Location
Austin, Texas
TDI
none
Had a chance to drive around a family member's 2010 Golf TDI today. I enjoyed driving the car very much, but I really don't care for the DSG transmission. I found that it was difficult to launch smoothly, shifted too early, and didn't keep the engine in torque band, and caused more turbo lag than necessary.

I found at launch either I was pressing the pedal too little or too much, it was hard to get just right. And then it would just go and run through the gears as fast as it could, and then lug the engine when you transitioned from acceleration to cruising.

When I could anticipate that would need to be speeding up, say after transitioning from one freeway to another over a ramp, when I got to the end of the ramp I would use the paddle shifters to get it down a couple of gears so that it was immediately in the desired powerband.

I tried the S mode, that was a lot smoother but it tended to hold the car in gear until over 3,000 RPM, and would not shift into 6th. Ugh I swear, always too little or too much. If I could reprogram it to shift at 2500 in S mode then it would be about perfect I think.

Oh well. If I get a Golf or a JSW in the future, make mine with manual shift please!
 

El Dobro

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Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
"Absolutely normal" according to the VW engineers. At least you didn't get the 1-2 banging.
 

BumbleBeeTJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Alabama
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG
it's a hell of an improvement over a conventional auto i think

shifts are fast and crisp and shifting early=better mpg

and also understand it's a diesel :)

I honestly like the DSG and I'm a typical stick kinda guy.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
For me, the DSG has its own peculiar and particular characteristics. If one has expectations that is "should" act like so called "normal" slush boxes or manuals, they will probably be disappointed.

Indeed VW has a history of making automatic transmissions that have a higher probability of failure. Case in point, 2003 TDI automatic transmission the "famous" 01 M.

I know that almost all of us have expectations of the MkIV DSG's when they hit 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 miles. I certainly want to know the same for the 2009/2010 Mk V DSG's.
 

fleuger99

Veteran Member
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Nov 25, 2009
Location
MA
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI
brons2 said:
When I could anticipate that would need to be speeding up, say after transitioning from one freeway to another over a ramp, when I got to the end of the ramp I would use the paddle shifters to get it down a couple of gears so that it was immediately in the desired powerband.
The DSG is a good compromise between a regular automatic and a manual in my opinion.

BTW. what paddle shifters? There aren't any for the JSW.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
BumbleBeeTJ said:
and also understand it's a diesel :)

I honestly like the DSG and I'm a typical stick kinda guy.
From what I read, it sounds like the 2005-6 DSGs "feel" better than the 2010s. Diesel or not, it's 2010... the computer programming/function of these things should be more refined before they are sold.

In my opinion, it would be great if these little transmissions actually matched rpm precisely before they engaged clutches, rather than burning each clutch a little with each shift. If you want a "sport" mode, the allow the clutches to engage instantly...
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
I've read 5 or 6 recent reviews of the TDi equipped with the DSG and they all share similar thoughts on it:

 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Anyone that knows me knows I despise all automatic transmissions .

But when the DSG shifts @ low rpms it is well within the torque bands , if it wasn't the VWAG engineers would never had programed it to shift the way it does if it wasn't . Our engines can be run as low as ~1,100 in high gear without issue depending on load .

A drive in a B5 Passat TDI-PD or any of the slush box or DSG TDIs sold in the last few years connected to a VE , PD or CR will confirm that the VWAG engineers agree . Low rpms in high gear are completely acceptable under light loads .

The CR engine is designed to run in high gear from the ~1,100 to 2,500 rpm range depending on load & speed . Drive any automatic TDI ( rotary injection pump-(VE) , PD or CR ) of any year ever sold here and you will see that our cars are designed to be run in high gear @ very low rpms depending on load from ~1,100 to 2,500 rpms without issue .

On the CR an occasional rev up while going through the gears is a must to keep all that emissions crap functioning properly .

Get into high gear as soon as possible and stay there if conditions allow . This isn't lugging and is the most efficient way to drive any TDI of any year or design .
 

StewartinND

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Location
Santa Barbara CA
TDI
'17 328d Sportswagon
I'm really enjoying the dsg transmission. I originally wanted a manual jsw tdi however I found the pedal position of the clutch did not work for me. I still have my pair of MG's to keep my left foot well exercised. It took a little bit of time to learn how to drive it smoothly but now I would absolutely hate to go back to a slush box.
 

timwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Location
Hauppauge, NY
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen Stick
I took a pass on DSG for my 2010 JSW TDI because of the so-so road test reviews and previous VW recalls.

I also read that there's a very expensive fliud change required at 40k, which just happens to be 4k past the 3/36 free maintenance period.
 

BKJSWTDIDSG10

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Location
Connecticut
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen DSG Platinum Gray
Dealer told me that the software revsion for the DSG would be available in spring. Maybe it will take care of the 1-2 punch and also not shift into first while trying to drive anywhere below 10 MPH. Also the DSG will not let me shift out of 1st until the speed is above 10 MPH. I will also check the RPMs because it's about the revs after all.
 

brons2

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Location
Austin, Texas
TDI
none
El Dobro said:
"Absolutely normal" according to the VW engineers. At least you didn't get the 1-2 banging.
The 1-2 banging?? 1-2 shifts were as smooth as silk in her car. Should I warn her about 1-2 banging?
 

brons2

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Location
Austin, Texas
TDI
none
BumbleBeeTJ said:
it's a hell of an improvement over a conventional auto i think

shifts are fast and crisp and shifting early=better mpg

and also understand it's a diesel :)

I honestly like the DSG and I'm a typical stick kinda guy.
That's interesting. The whole experience left me pining for a conventional automatic. Although I would always go for the manual if it was available anyways.

Maybe I would get used to the DSG over time, dunno. For whatever reason I felt me and the DSG had a major disconnect. Too bad because the 2.0 CRD TDI is a wonderful, wonderful pleasure to drive. And the Golf's driving dynamics reminded me of some of the BMW's I have driven in the past. Nothing like the Rabbits I kicked around in high school back in the 80s. Great car.
 

St.Hubbins

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
TDI
'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
timwagon said:
I took a pass on DSG for my 2010 JSW TDI because of the so-so road test reviews and previous VW recalls.

I also read that there's a very expensive fliud change required at 40k, which just happens to be 4k past the 3/36 free maintenance period.
is there no way to insist upon the fluid change at, say, 30 or 35k?

what is this fluid change, specifically - DSG tranny fluid?
 

BeauTDI

Active member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Location
MO, USA
TDI
2010 JSW TDI
I've been incredibly surprised to really enjoy the DSG. It's very different from a typical auto, but that's what I really appreciate with the diesel engine peformance. I can understand how some folks might not like it at all, but it's just a different technology that, in my opinion, does its job very well. Oh, at my dealer the 40K fluid change is around $260. And maybe I'll just do it myself :)
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
I really like the DSG. I'm coming up on one year next week and my transmission has worked perfectly and has been a real pleasure to drive. I know there's a hefty fee for the 40k maintenance but that's life. I already pay for other conveniences.
 

brons2

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Location
Austin, Texas
TDI
none
rotarykid said:
On the CR an occasional rev up while going through the gears is a must to keep all that emissions crap functioning properly .
I can assure you, that happened several times yesterday. Once the engine hits it's stride it will pull hard until the DSG decides to shift. I didn't mean to run it up so high but it just happened so fast it was hard to avoid. I didn't redline it or anything but probably briefly touched 4000 RPM. This Golf only has 800 miles on it. I told my family not to baby it but not to beat on it either.

On a side note, she seems to be able to drive it a lot more smoothly than I can. What really matters is that she is happy, and she seems to be estatic with her new car. Accordingly, I am NOT going to send her a link to this thread. :D

Don't get me wrong though, I had a blast driving the car around, I probably put 150 miles on it yesterday. :)
 

raybo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Location
St. Petersburg, FL
TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
We think our '10 Jetta CR TDI/DSG combo is much better than the '06 TDI/DSG was. Very smooth and predictable. It is programmed to shift a bit low, but that enforces the economy - you can always get into it and it will downshift.

DSG takes more than 1 day to get used to.

Ray
 

PRash2486

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Location
Peoria, AZ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS
I test drove a 2010 TDI/DSG Jetta yesterday, and test drove a 6spd MT version today, and I enjoy the 6spd much more. I just didn't dig the DSG, I didnt get the full appreciation of the torque the new TDI offers, while I did with the 6spd I think. Thats just my personal opinion though. Now when I test drove a 2008 R32 a couple years ago I loved the DSG with paddle shifters, it was a blast. I just didn't feel the same connection with the car a drove yesterday. So we just put some money down to reserve a 2010 6spd TDI that will be here at the end of May. :D
 

Elfnmagik

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Oct 1, 2008
Location
Sherman's Ashtray
TDI
Currently De-Dub'd
brons2 said:
The 1-2 banging?? 1-2 shifts were as smooth as silk in her car. Should I warn her about 1-2 banging?
If she's ever driven a manual and drives around for a day of shopping using 'Tip' only, she'll know it when it happens.

is there no way to insist upon the fluid change at, say, 30 or 35k?

what is this fluid change, specifically - DSG tranny fluid?
You're kidding right? VW ain't gonna give that one away. They'll be making up for the 3 freebie OC's just with that one alone. The fluid change requires 6 liters of DSG specific fluid (preferrably original VW), a filter with O-ring, and seal washers. The recommended proceedure also requires a special fill tool (some have made one) and VAG-Com software to ensure the fluid is at the proper temp while running the engine for drain-off of excess fluid to the correct amount (there's no dipstick). Fluid is approx. $35-38 a liter (dealer cost) alone. With filter and labor it can be in upwards of $500 and it's still possible it won't be done correctly.

I'll be doing mine hopefully this week (with DanG144). Parts cost me $154 shipped from ECS.
 

dpg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Chi-Town
TDI
2013 JSW TDI, 2010 JSW - retired
also have to remember that the DSG adapts to driving style. so if your family member drives it easy everyday and then here you come and drive it spiritivly of course its going to behave oddly to you.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
It has been stated the DSG is @ 40,000 miles. I do think it useful to compare the costs BEFOREHAND (Dealer/Independent/guru, DIY/etc.). One should assign appropriate weight to the cost and frequency of this (extra item) maintenance. It has not been mentioned, but even 5/6 speed manuals (some say 100,000, but I am doing 200,000 miles) and automatics require some level of periodical fluid changes.

So for example, we got a 2004 Civic automatic over a 2003 TDI automatic. Both require automatic transmission fluid changes. 120,000 miles for the Honda, not sure for the VW TDI. .
 
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manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Good point ruking, but the price difference between an auto service and a manual service is enormous. Doing a manual service on some VWs is as simple as an engine oil change. Some newer manual VWs are a bit trickier and require various special tools, but it should still be less than half the price of the auto service... and as you mentioned you can extend a manual trans. oil change without trouble.
 

Derrel H Green

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Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Location
Murrieta, California
TDI
An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Faults with the DSG. None IMHO.

:)

Not as far as I'm concerned. I have a late vehicle that was built in February 2010, and by
then, VW had finally gotten around to getting the tranny computer programmed properly. ;)

As far as the paddle shifters go, only the Golf has 'em, and if I had one, I wouldn't use them!

When I drive ours, some of the time, I use straight drive and some of the time,
I use the 'tiptronic' feature and wiggle the lever to control the ratios.
I never use the 'S' feature! Why? Because it revs the motor too high for everyday normal driving.
There is no need with the high low-speed torque these CRs have to revs it up like that. :(
If you want it to rev up when using straight drive, all you need to do it lean on it a little harder,
and when it had gone far enough or high enough in that gear, ease off just a little until it shifts,
and then come back down on the go petal again to control that ratio and so on. :p

Very easy to do once you learn how. Just like anything else. :rolleyes:

When slowing, I will move the lever to the right (now it's in tiptronic) and control my
slowing speed by downshifting through the ratios. What could be simpler? :confused:

Try it, you'll like it!

:D
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
I really think a lot of what drives the DSG controversy is the fact that almost 100% (of all American drivers 300 M plus) have had experiences with the (ubiquituous) slushbox automatic transmissions. A minority of 20% of the passenger vehicle population are so called 5/6 speed manuals. So it would be easy to swag more than 20% of the US drivers have had manual transmission operating experiences. However it is STILL a minority population

When it comes to the DSG, it is (.0001105%) .... SOOOOOOOOOOO a minority population, that we don't even have a reasonable measurement !!!! So when a DSG is coupled to a TDI, that population is almost unmeasurably small.

MACRO side bar:

Let me digress and say that 2% (5.088 M) of the American passenger population (254.4 M) is diesel. Of the 5.088 M diesel vehicles, 75% (overwhelming majority?) are light trucks (3.816 M).

This leaves 1.272 M passenger diesel cars. Just this ALONE (manual or automatic or dsg) means that passenger diesels are .005 percent of the population or one/half of one percent. I mean I have had my 5 speed manual 125,000 miles+ or more, before I even tried a 2009 DSG !!!!

MICRO side bar:

So when the the American VW TDI DSG come out 2006? What was the TDI/DSG production figures? There were NO TDI/DSG's in 2007,2008. 2009 TDI's were fully 25% of VW Jetta production (225,000) or 56,250 units/254.4 M or .0002211 percent!!!!! So what were the percentages of TDI's DSG's to 6 speed manuals?? Again % numbers far less than even ... FAR LESS. !!?? OK let me swag and say 50/50 that makes it DSG 28,125/254.4M= .0001104 %.
 
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Derrel H Green

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Location
Murrieta, California
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An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Wrong!

ruking said:
I really think a lot of what drives the DSG controversy is the fact that almost 100% (of all American drivers 300 M plus) have had experiences with the (ubiquituous) slushbox automatic transmissions. A minority of 20% of the passenger vehicle population are so called 5/6 speed manuals. So it would be easy to swag more than 20% of the US drivers have had manual transmission operating experiences. However it is STILL a minority population
When it comes to the DSG, it is (.0001105%) .... SOOOOOOOOOOO a minority population, that we don't even have a reasonable measurement !!!! So when a DSG is coupled to a TDI, that population is almost unmeasurably small.
[Where do you come up with all this garbage?]
MACRO side bar:
Let me digress and say that 2% (5.088 M) of the American passenger population (254.4 M) is diesel. Of the 5.088 M diesel vehicles, 75% (overwhelming majority?) are light trucks (3.816 M).
This leaves 1.272 M passenger diesel cars. Just this ALONE (manual or automatic or dsg) means that passenger diesels are .005 percent of the population or one/half of one percent. I mean I have had my 5 speed manual 125,000 miles+ or more, before I even tried a 2009 DSG !!!!
[Sounds to me like you are far behind the times!]
MICRO side bar:
So when the the American VW TDI DSG come out 2006? What was the TDI/DSG production figures? There were NO TDI/DSG's in 2007, 2008. 2009 TDI's were fully 25% of VW Jetta production (225,000) or 56,250 units/254.4 M or .0002211 percent!!!!! So what were the percentages of TDI's DSG's to 6 speed manuals?? Again % numbers far less than even ... FAR LESS. !!?? OK let me swag and say 50/50 that makes it DSG 28,125/254.4M= .0001104 %.
:)
Who cares? We are discussing DSGs. Are you not happy with yours?
You have not been by your dealer lately. :p
When I bought ours in February, the dealer had a total of eight JSW DSG TDIs the lot.
They also had a couple of TDI sedans, and guess what, not a single manual TDI on the lot.
Last Saturday, they had one manual, but it's a Golf TDI.
BTW, they had only one JSW TDI on the property Saturday, and it has a sticker well North of $30K.
It's been there because of that high sticker for a long time. VIN is (last six) 635XXX.
Must have been built well before Christmas. In other words, it is not fresh!
People that are buying TDIs, especially the Jettas are simply not buying manuals any longer.
Unless it's some die hard manual lover who lives in the weeds, or simply is a
gluton for punishment if he lives in a large city with the resulting 'stop and go' traffic.
Dealers don't floor what they cannot move. Mexico is simply not building them for shipment here.
:D
 

ruking

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Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Derrel H Green said:
:)
Who cares? We are discussing DSGs. Are you not happy with yours?
You have not been by your dealer lately. :p
When I bought ours in February, the dealer had a total of eight JSW DSG TDIs the lot.
They also had a couple of TDI sedans, and guess what, not a single manual TDI on the lot.
Last Saturday, they had one manual, but it's a Golf TDI.
BTW, they had only one JSW TDI on the property Saturday, and it has a sticker well North of $30K.
It's been there because of that high sticker for a long time. VIN is (last six) 635XXX.
Must have been built well before Christmas. In other words, it is not fresh!
People that are buying TDIs, especially the Jettas are simply not buying manuals any longer.
Unless it's some die hard manual lover who lives in the weeds, or simply is a
gluton for punishment if he lives in a large city with the resulting 'stop and go' traffic.
Dealers don't floor what they cannot move. Mexico is simply not building them for shipment here.
:D


1. Obviously you do.

2. VW most obviously, as they took the very UNUSUAL step of extending the DSG warranty to 10 years and or 100,000 miles. They are almost always hard line: "it aint our fault routine"

3. There are obviously a lot of folks on the sidelines looking to folks (and threads like these) with DSG's to honestly report their experiences ;) It is probably not a leap to say that VW is hoping the experiences are overwhelmingly posititve. People in the not too distant past would have to literally dig out information (bad information about DSG's, in this case) that has not been true for a fairly long time.

4. And since it would be the transmission option of most choice (even you said it) VW has a LOT riding on people with DSG's experiences.

5 because the average age and miles of the passenger vehicle fleet is growing (9.4 years, with drivers doing 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year = to a range of 112,800 to 141,000 miles) would not be uncommon. I really and am swagging most other also, do not want to be among those at 100,001 miles with a DSG repair bill for 2,000 to 6,000 dollars. and VWA saying,... I know NUT TING.

No, I do not make it a habit to go to the dealer's a lot.

What gave you the idea I/we are unhappy with the DSG? :confused: You are either misreading or projecting your own biases. :p Again you really misunderstand the 6 speed manual is THE standard. One has to pony up the extra 1,000 or so, if one wants the DSG. Not many dealers are going to give YOU a DSG for 6 speed manual STANDARD money.

Indeed you might not have been listening to many of the issues about VW's less than stellar automatic transmissions. I am sure that was one (long term) reason why they had to take a chance on the DSG. So that is one reason why manuals will for the near future be a very viable standard. There is a reason for example why 20% of the passenger vehicle population continues to be manual transmissions. There are simply not many DSG's with 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 miles. So time will tell if being so called "with the times" made economic sense. While I hope so, the jury has still/ been/is out !! Or, haven't you been ...reading ? (those threads)
 
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Car901

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Location
Avon, MA
TDI
2010 JSW 6spd, Black, in and out - traded for '17 Alltrack
Derrel H Green said:
Unless it's some die hard manual lover who lives in the weeds, or simply is a
gluton for punishment if he lives in a large city with the resulting 'stop and go' traffic.
:D
Lives in the weeds? I live outside of and commute into Boston daily. I have no problem rowing the shift. Conventional auto's have been very costly for me and wife, and I don't drive like it's a rental car. My manual JSW was the only one on the lot at the time, and I bought it....three pedals don't scare me - actually, I prefer it. To each his own...and the '92 F-250 had E4OD auto tranny issues from the beginning.
 
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Derrel H Green

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Location
Murrieta, California
TDI
An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Really

:)

Well I would guess that you do not know of the traffic out here any more than I know about Boston traffic, but in our greater Los Angeles area during rush hour, we have what is know as 'slow and go.' Sometimes it is stop and go! If it is the correct time to travel, the 62.5 miles we travel often can take about one hour. If it is the incorrect time of the day to travel, that same journey can take more than
two hours, and if there is an accident, much longer.
During those times, it can and often does take one hour to go as little as ten miles.
With any manual tranny, that's simply too much for my aging left knee,
and believe me when I say, I have driven them all.
No more manuals with a clutch for me, thank you.

When I drove professionally, I loved traffic. Why? Because I was being paid by the hour.
I could sit there all day, and in the evening, I was always on time
and one half already, so you can see why I love it. :)

The DSG is the closest thing to a manual but without a manual clutch.
That's why some who have been around since the days of the model A have 'seen the light.'
Some day, perhaps not to far down the road, you too will get wise.

We just gave the last manual transmission I bought new to her son.
A 2000 Ford Focus Kona model with less than 35K miles. Wonderful little car, but she would
not drive it because it was a manual. When we traveled together, we used the other cars
over the years. Ever hear of a battery lasting for more than eight years?
A standard run-of-the-mill Ford battery? I couldn't believe it, but it did!

And as you say: To each his own.

:D
 
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