Got the fix and now have P2457

740GLE

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How much they charging for that?
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Sounds lot better than $1000s and heat in the upcoming winter should also be a bonus.
 

N2UADTDI

Veteran Member
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Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
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2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
Car is back from dealer. So far so good. No boiling coolant in the egr cooler and co CEL.
Here's some pics of the exhaust system after the fix.





 

740GLE

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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
nice and shiny, now lets hope you don't in a minor fender bender and the insurance company totals the ride, and you make it to 300K!
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Update: The dealer called today and diagnosed the heater core as being clogged. The car will be ready Friday.
The same thing just happened to me. I had the fix done last week, along with a 150K service and a CV boot replaced. Picked up the car on Friday. It drove great, with no noticeable differences. The next day the CEL was on. I took it in Monday and they called and told me the egr cooler was clogged and needed to be replaced. They didn't have the parts on hand. I am not happy. I've been a customer with this very big dealership since I bought the car new and they've always treated me well, even though they're expensive.
 
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93celicaconv

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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
The same thing just happened to me. I had the fix done last week, along with a 150K service and a CV boot replaced. Picked up the car on Friday. It drove great, with no noticeable differences. The next day the CEL was on. I took it in Monday and they called and told me the heater core was clogged and needed to be replaced. They didn't have the parts on hand. I am not happy. I've been a customer with this very big dealership since I bought the car new and they've always treated me well, even though they're expensive.
Did you know you had a clogged heater core? Did you have heating problems in past winters?
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
you really should read his whole thread:rolleyes:..he explains in detail...
I may have worded my question(s) improperly. What I was trying to ask (which is not in jbright's post) is:

  • Did you know you had a clogged heater core before you brought in your vehicle for the emissions fix?
  • Did you have heating problems in past winters?
I'm trying to understand if the owner knew there was a clogged heater core prior to bringing it to the dealer for the emissions fix.

If clogged heater cores, prior to the fix, did not trigger a CEL, but after the fix, they do, VW did say that the thresholds in the new ECU flash would be different, so it is possible the new flash threshold was lowered and the CEL was triggered after the fix was applied. I'm not sure if a clogged heater core is considered part of the emissions system to be under the emissions warranty extension anyway. I'm sure others in this forum are better versed in knowing this than I.
 

jbright

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Location
Indianapolis
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2009 Jetta DSG
I may have worded my question(s) improperly. What I was trying to ask (which is not in jbright's post) is:

  • Did you know you had a clogged heater core before you brought in your vehicle for the emissions fix?
  • Did you have heating problems in past winters?
I'm trying to understand if the owner knew there was a clogged heater core prior to bringing it to the dealer for the emissions fix.

If clogged heater cores, prior to the fix, did not trigger a CEL, but after the fix, they do, VW did say that the thresholds in the new ECU flash would be different, so it is possible the new flash threshold was lowered and the CEL was triggered after the fix was applied. I'm not sure if a clogged heater core is considered part of the emissions system to be under the emissions warranty extension anyway. I'm sure others in this forum are better versed in knowing this than I.
I mistakenly wrote heater core when it's actually the egr cooler (I shouldn't write when tired). I just corrected my post above. My original post is on the last page here: 2.0 Gen 1 post fix impressions, issues, etc. (
1 2 3)


 
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N2UADTDI

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Location
New Jersey
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2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
Yes, I knew there was a heater core problem prior to the fix. What I did not know was that the heater core and the egr cooler are in series. The coolant runs from the engine to the egr cooler and then to the heater core.
A restriction in the heater core was causing the egr cooler to overheat and boil the coolant.
What I am thinking is that the egr system has more exhaust gasses going thru it. Prior to the fix all was well. But the increased cooling load on the egr cooler after the fix caused the system to fail.

Using exhaust gasses in the combustion process reduces NOx formation. And NOx was the issue with the scandal. So it would be reasonable to think that increased egr was one of the primary ways that VW reduced NOx to comply with the emission agreement with the gov't.

The problem I was having with the dealer was that I explained this to the service personnel as soon as I saw a problem after the fix was done. So instead of replacing the heater core they decided the car needed a new cooling system (that did not include the heater core) at a cost of thousands of dollars.

There are 2 egr systems on the VW common rail engine. Low and high pressure. This system that uses the egr cooler is the low pressure system. One side effect of the egr cooler is that hot exhaust gasses warm the coolant in the egr cooler and help the enigne to come up to operating temperature faster.

VWCC said they would not pay for any part of the cooling system. Even in this situation where the fix caused the CEL to come on. From my point of view the 4 year warranty on the fix should have covered this. Look at prior posts. The wording in the warranty is short, clear and concise.
I think it's worded that way so that the car owner is protected from the very thing that happened here. The dealer misdiagnosed the problem. If I did not catch this it would have been very costly and NOT fixed the problem.
VWCC said that they would not pay for any part of the cooling system, even if it causes the CEL to go away. Once again the wording of the warranty is very clear to me. But VW thinks otherwise. The VWCC people I spoke to did not seem to understand any technical aspects of the car.

I can only imagine the group of people sitting at a conference table and coming up with the warranty wording. It is there to protect the car owner. VW will do anything it can to push these costs onto the owner. One case at a time. One dollar at a time. Anything to avoid paying.

And now I see that the DSG transmissions in 2009 cars are not working after the fix. With all the cars they bought back you would have thought they had plenty of opportunity to test out the fix on a variety of cars. High mileage, low mileage, from various parts of the country. To make sure they know all the potential issues that could arise. But that would have cost money.
VW knows exactly what parts go into each car. What software works with what hardware.

This is what happens when the bottom line profit is what their sole goal is. Short term thinking for short term profit.


I may have worded my question(s) improperly. What I was trying to ask (which is not in jbright's post) is:

  • Did you know you had a clogged heater core before you brought in your vehicle for the emissions fix?
  • Did you have heating problems in past winters?
I'm trying to understand if the owner knew there was a clogged heater core prior to bringing it to the dealer for the emissions fix.

If clogged heater cores, prior to the fix, did not trigger a CEL, but after the fix, they do, VW did say that the thresholds in the new ECU flash would be different, so it is possible the new flash threshold was lowered and the CEL was triggered after the fix was applied. I'm not sure if a clogged heater core is considered part of the emissions system to be under the emissions warranty extension anyway. I'm sure others in this forum are better versed in knowing this than I.
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Reporting back. The code after the emissions was fix was, indeed, for egr flow. However, the service rep this morning tells me they replaced the heater core, which was clogged, and that's what resulted in the egr code. 1100 dollars. Hmmm. Anyone more knowledgeable than I am have any thoughts? I'm picking the car up this afternoon and will ask more questions.
__________________
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Mind what you are reporting, EGR flow vs EGR inefficient cooling performance, these are two completely different issues on these cars.

EGR flow (P401) is due to a cracked PDF, a heater core replacement ain't gonna do squat on this.

EGR coolant performance (P2457) is due to the fix flowing more coolant and upping the EGR duty cycle. As is reported in this thread a replaced heater core will correct this issue.

Not to be nit-picky but keeping these small details separate will help someone else down the line.
 

jbright

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Location
Indianapolis
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2009 Jetta DSG
Mind what you are reporting, EGR flow vs EGR inefficient cooling performance, these are two completely different issues on these cars.

EGR flow (P401) is due to a cracked PDF, a heater core replacement ain't gonna do squat on this.

EGR coolant performance (P2457) is due to the fix flowing more coolant and upping the EGR duty cycle. As is reported in this thread a replaced heater core will correct this issue.

Not to be nit-picky but keeping these small details separate will help someone else down the line.
Thanks. That's why included "more knowledgeable than I am" in my post. This will help me when I talk to them this afternoon.
 

add1son

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Location
Boston
TDI
2009 Sportwagen
Add another to the P2457 post-fix club. Also threw code P00D5.

Dealer said heat core replacement will fix the issue, like 740GLE indicates.
 

XjGhost

New member
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Sep 19, 2017
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Jetta
Add another to the P2457 post fix club. Dropped it off this afternoon to see what they say. I just had the fix done on my 2014 Jetta too.
 

forrest resto`s

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athens ga.
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2000 jetta tdi auto rc2 2013 passat tdi 2015 passat tdi auto 2011 jetta tdi nav. s'roof..man. dpf delete 1970 GTO JUDGE 520 HP
Add another to the P2457 post fix club. Dropped it off this afternoon to see what they say. I just had the fix done on my 2014 Jetta too.
o/k people..please let us know how many miles on the car...and what year?.. were you having problems with heater before?...any codes before??:eek: Please supply more info because this seems to be a consistent problem that should be monitored.. Thanx!
 

craigldavis

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Joined
May 21, 2003
TDI
2009 JSW M/T; 2014 Q7
Maybe add what type of coolant you are using.

I’ve always used only VW original coolant with distilled (or RO water) and never mixed types or brands.

Never had any heater problems and did not get the P2457 code after my fix.

2009 Jetta with 280,000 miles.
 
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jbright

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Location
Indianapolis
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2009 Jetta DSG
The dealership that did the fix has performed every service on my car since it was new, 152,000 miles ago, including a service at the same time as the fix. I had no sign of a problem with the heater core. The day after the fix I got the check engine light. $1100 of the money I received was spent to pay for a new heater core. . . . . .the car is driving great. I can't really tell any difference in performance and fuel economy. I'm about to fill up the tank so I can start to get an idea if there's any drop in miles per gallon (computer shows little or none).
 

740GLE

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NH
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I'd fight VW to be reimbursed for the $1100.
 

meerschm

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Joined
Apr 18, 2009
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Fairfax county VA
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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
I'd fight VW to be reimbursed for the $1100.

agree.

this was not any problem before the fix was applied.

start with the dealer,

call VW customer care and ask to elevate asap.
 

add1son

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Location
Boston
TDI
2009 Sportwagen
My 09 Jetta has about 97K. New timing belt a year ago around 82k, so new coolant with that. No issues with heater / heater core problems prior to the Error code. I should note I also threw code P00D5.

I have contacted customer care and they should be getting in touch with the dealer who performed the fix today, will update.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
The fluid change out during a TB job, while helps prevent blockage in a heater core, won't fix any blockage issue if it's already started.

Sounds like people haven't been noticing any issues with their heater cores before the fix. This which makes sense, EGR duty cycle is prob reduced when cheating for better MPGs, so the cooling system may not need to operate as its peak efficiency. You'd still get some cabin heat but it may be only be say 70% of max temp.

But after the fix due to the EGR duty cycle being increased, unless coolant flow is near 100% thru the heater core you may boil coolant in the EGR cooler as its in series, and can't flow enough to cool it down, then up pops the code.
 

joshhol

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AP
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2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
So if the cooling system needs to be at peak efficiency for the fix to work, as soon as the heater core gets some blockage it's going to throw the code again and that will be another $1100 heater core replacement. Is the assumed coolant change interval just to coincide with the TB replacement since it isn't explicitly mentioned in the maintenance booklet?
Is a 60 - 80K coolant change interval too long, allowing for sediment to build up?

Wondering what other longer term effects will the fix have on car systems.
 

93celicaconv

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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Is the assumed coolant change interval just to coincide with the TB replacement since it isn't explicitly mentioned in the maintenance booklet? Is a 60 - 80K coolant change interval too long, allowing for sediment to build up?
This is a great question. Checking coolant condition (pH, for example) or having a routine flush & refill period doesn't exist in the maintenance booklets (except for checking level and frost protection). Any coolant breaks down over time, and as the pH changes, that starts internal corrosion processes that causes the sediments that causes the plugging (most of the cases). Old DexCool, if the level got low and if air got into the internal cooling chambers, caused excessive coolant breakdown, at least years ago. So I understand the level part. But one has to check pH also, even if the level and frost protection properties are good.
 

meerschm

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2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
there have been reports of gunked up coolant in the 2009 cars. (with clogged heater cores)

there is no interval specified by VW. Not even specified as part of the timing belt service.

but if you have one of these early cars, it would seem a good idea to flush the system out when you get the chance, fix or not. not just a drain and fill, but disconnect hoses and flush with fresh water, with special attention to the two coolant loops with smaller diameter hoses.

plenty of folks have had no issues with this, and will say it is not required.

Your mileage may vary.
 

N2UADTDI

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New Jersey
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2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
I asked the dealer to put the old heater core in the trunk when they replaced it. Was hoping the heater core had plastic tanks that could be taken off. But the whole thing is aluminum. Can't be taken apart easily.
Looking into the in/out ports of the core shows lots of rust. Clogged tubes.
This car has had rust in the cooling system from day 1. I changed the coolant every year using the coolant from the dealer. Mixed 50/50 with distilled water.
Had the dealer do a flush once. I've taken the expansion tank off several times to clean out the rust chunks.
Only once did I ever see this much corrosion in a cooling system. And that car sat for decades with plain water in it.
This was a new car in 2009(late 2008). How did such rust occur? Was there a problem with the block or was the coolant they used contaminated with rust?
 
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