Joined the Mafia Today

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
'09 has 32k miles.

Leaving Friday for Virginia.

New filter and M1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 along for the ride.

Couldn't get myself to wait until 40k. Couldn't even get myself to wait until I got back from Virginia.


Tim
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
mdoaw12i said:
should be 5w-30 Mobil 1 ESP
Maybe in your car....

BTW - I have 1,100 miles on this oil change and my first two tanks have averaged 46.5mpg. Only assignable cause for the increase (that I have identified) is the oil.

I think several others have reported an increase in fuel economy with the Mobil oil. Nice side benefit if it holds up!


Tim
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I personally don't see an issue with the M1 5w40 Formula M version, afterall it's what I use :)
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
CR, I have also seen the aftermath of 5w30 in the PD engines and now recomend to all my customers the use of M1 TDT 5w40.

I have a PD that came in with catastrophic cam and lifter failure at 120K. Car just turned over 240K (comes in tomorrow) and going stronger than ever.

I also installed on the PD motors the Dieselgeek By-Pass to add to the protective margins of the M1 5w40 as well as 1 micron filtering.
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
Nice! Will you be inspecting it for cam & lifter wear again? Please report the results back with what you'll find during the inspection! Thanks. :)
 

Zambee500

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
Drivbiwire said:
CR, I have also seen the aftermath of 5w30 in the PD engines and now recomend to all my customers the use of M1 TDT 5w40.
M1 TDT 5w40 or M1 ESP-Formula M 5w40? I'm confused on which is the better of the non-505.01 oils that folks here are using.

And how do they compare to the 505.01 5w40 oils offered by Pentosin and LubroMoly?
 

MyWifesTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2004 Jetta GL 5M (sold), 2002 Jetta Wagen GLS 5M (sold), 2015 Golf TDI S 6M
Joined the mafia yesterday as well, my wife's '04 PD is running with Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. Contemplating the use of ZDDP additive to bolster the Delvac 1.
 

Zambee500

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
MyWifesTDI said:
Joined the mafia yesterday as well, my wife's '04 PD is running with Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. Contemplating the use of ZDDP additive to bolster the Delvac 1.
I'm totally confused again on the best M1 for a PD motor. I thought from this thread that M1 Delvac ESP 5w40 was not preferred over M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 or M1 TDT 5w40:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=217700&page=3
 

MyWifesTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2004 Jetta GL 5M (sold), 2002 Jetta Wagen GLS 5M (sold), 2015 Golf TDI S 6M
Don't be confused, I am taking a path that I think is best for my vehicle. From what I have read, the the 5W-30 505.01 oils may not protect as well as the 5W-40 CJ-4 oils. I plan on using the Delvac 1 5W-40 and possibly running extended OCIs. That would require Oil Analysis to verify the oils (continued) ability to do it's job. Delvac 1 ESP is designed for OTR diesels with OCIs of 100K miles possible. The fact that others prefer M1 TDT 5W-40 based on UOA evidence, and M1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 having the MB 229.51 approval is their choice. Ohters have run Delvac 1 ESP with good results, they just are not in the majority. Whoever on this forum said, drive more, worry less, is absolutely correct!
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
MyWifesTDI said:
Whoever on this forum said, drive more, worry less, is absolutely correct!
I would be the one who coined that phrase years ago... :)

Drive more worry less, DB
 

MyWifesTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2004 Jetta GL 5M (sold), 2002 Jetta Wagen GLS 5M (sold), 2015 Golf TDI S 6M
I have a similar saying on my mountain bike stem bolt cap which is a circular, and sentence reads: "All work and no play is on good at...". Repeat as many times as necessary.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Drivbiwire said:
I personally don't see an issue with the M1 5w40 Formula M version, afterall it's what I use :)
Bought a case of the Mobil1 5w30 ESP when we purchased the car new. Would it be in the motor's best interest to switch to the 5w40 Formula M after I deplete my remaining 8 liters of 5w30? Not really worried about the 5w40 being non 507.00 oil as it seems (at least from what I've read here) to be better suited for our applications in the long haul and is also DPF safe.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I'm of the opinion that all VW engines require a 5w40. A 0w40 would be great also but are hard if not impossible to find in low SAPS formulations.

I won't run a 5w30 in any of my cars. I have tried it and I was not impressed with the wear rates.
 

dlb

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Greely Ont
TDI
'04 Reflex Silver Golf
I think Petro-Canada Duron- E 0W-40 (CJ-4) is an outstanding oil that would do well in any TDI.
 

Elfnmagik

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Sherman's Ashtray
TDI
Currently De-Dub'd
Question. Could one mix both the ESP 5w-30 and M 5w-40 for OC's and would there be any, even if only slight benefit in terms of hot temp viscosity protection?
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Bringing this thread back up after reading Mobil's site and seeing that both ESP oils (5w30 & 5w40) are MB 229.31 & 229.51 compliant. What are the chances that MB and VW specs are close enough that maybe we'll see the 5w40 ESP approved by VW?
 

Dunno513

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Location
Mirror Lake, NH
TDI
2006 NB PD-TDI DSG
adjat84th said:
Bringing this thread back up after reading Mobil's site and seeing that both ESP oils (5w30 & 5w40) are MB 229.31 & 229.51 compliant. What are the chances that MB and VW specs are close enough that maybe we'll see the 5w40 ESP approved by VW?
You won't because they have their sights on the 5w-30 for the CR engines with the exhaust filters.
 

hid3

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Lithuania, Vilnius
TDI
Golf V 1.9 TDI-PD 105 HP
adjat84th said:
Bringing this thread back up after reading Mobil's site and seeing that both ESP oils (5w30 & 5w40) are MB 229.31 & 229.51 compliant. What are the chances that MB and VW specs are close enough that maybe we'll see the 5w40 ESP approved by VW?
Chances are absolute ZERO (0), that's why:
1. VW507.00 requires oil to be 5w-30.
2. There isn't any VW507.00 oil with the 5w-40 viscosity approved by VW
3. ESP Formula M seems not to be available in Europe. VW mainly wants to stick with their oil list and a footnote saying 'not all oils might be available in North America' but not telling vice-versa ('some oils are available just in NA')
 

silverbox

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Halifax Nova Scotia
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jetta wagon 2003 silver

Cool Breeze

Veteran Member
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Location
US
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BMW 335D
hid3 said:
Chances are absolute ZERO (0), that's why:
1. VW507.00 requires oil to be 5w-30.
2. There isn't any VW507.00 oil with the 5w-40 viscosity approved by VW
3. ESP Formula M seems not to be available in Europe. VW mainly wants to stick with their oil list and a footnote saying 'not all oils might be available in North America' but not telling vice-versa ('some oils are available just in NA')
Do you think the lower weight has more to do with meeting their posted EPA fuel economy figure than anything else?

I see it with my car. In the UK for example the oil for my car can be 5w-30/40, 0w-30/40, but it must be LL04. Mobil 1 says I can use ESP 5w-30, but not 5w-40. Both are MB 229.51, yet only the 5w30 is LL04. I find it odd that both would meet MB spec yet only one meets BMW spec.


Now I can buy Motul LL04 in 5w40, but that's imported of course, and they sell 2 types of LL04 5w40 (LL04 and 8100 X-Clean C3).
 
Last edited:

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
I've STRONGLY considered going to Formula M 5w40 in my 09. Specs are very similar, both ESP oils, and I truly think the 40wt is a better fit. I'm at 20k miles now, but my next oil change might be the 5w40.

I know many feel the same way, and I REALLY don't think there is a harm in moving to this oil.
 

BTL

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'Burbs of Chicago
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Never said they are clueless, but past experience show there might be better options out there.
 

raybo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Location
St. Petersburg, FL
TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
The Lubrizol Comparison Tool shows clearly that 507.00 and 229.51 requirements (and even 229.5 except for the aftertreatment compatibility req) are very close. I guess (don't know but it seems probable) that VW engineers think that the very slight difference in viscosity between 5w40 Formula M and the 5w30 507.00, and the slight difference in the spec itself is important for the CR engines. Part of this could be for operating temp flow. Otherwise, why would VW bother?

Also, as Tornado Red has pointed out in other threads, the 507.00 spec has a much higher wear requirement than 505.01. I would trust the newer oil in a PD.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RP/PC/index.html

Ray
 

adjat84th

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Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
BTL said:
I've STRONGLY considered going to Formula M 5w40 in my 09. Specs are very similar, both ESP oils, and I truly think the 40wt is a better fit. I'm at 20k miles now, but my next oil change might be the 5w40.

I know many feel the same way, and I REALLY don't think there is a harm in moving to this oil.
I have 4 more 5w30 bottles to go through, and it will be Formula M after that with UOAs to follow :)
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
raybo said:
VW engineers are clueless?

Ray

Our interest is only which oil is best for our car, in our application.

VW has many and often conflicting interests that may lead them to compromise.


Tim
 
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