Volkswagen exec reaffirms commitment to diesel: ‘Now it is absolutely clean’

jmodge

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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Caught something on TV about tax breaks being deleted and registration fees going up on EV’s to make up for missing fuel tax revenue
 

SilverGhost

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Mar 25, 2005
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Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
I hate to rain on anybody's parade, but I heard from somewhat reliable sources, that part of the legal settlement between Volkswagen and various government agencies was they were NOT to sell diesels in US anymore.

I have not gone over the court settlement to verify these claims, but trust the source enough to take their word for it. Besides, it tracks with the powers that be and their opinions of diesels (in govn't not VW).

Jason
 

tdi54

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Dec 19, 2010
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1981 Rabbit Diesel(sold), 2009 Jetta TDI MT(sold)2010 Jetta TDI MT, 2015 Jetta TDI SEL, DSG, 99 Ford F 350 PSD Dually, 2016 BMW X5 xDrive35d, 2016 535d
May be off topic but I see more than my share of Tesla's on southern california freeways. However, many of which are with open windows on hot california days; perhaps they prefer getting baked under the excruciating sun so that they do not sacrifice the meager amount of distance their EV's can cover.?? I don't know, but I can say, while they seemingly are suffering (and breathing highly polluted air), I pass by them with my 600+ per tank Jetta effortlessly with the comfort of ice cold ac.
 
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casioqv

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Aug 18, 2015
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California
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2009 Touareg TDI
perhaps they prefer getting baked under the excruciating sun so that they do not sacrifice the meager amount of distance their EV's can cover.??.

I doubt it- running the A/C drops the range about 10-15%, so pretty much any Tesla will still have 200-300 miles of range with the A/C blasting. There's plenty of regular gasoline cars on the market that have under 350 miles range with a full tank, and they don't get charged to full every night...


In my e-Golf I've only done that once or twice when we forgot to plug it in to charge the night before, so I didn't have my usual buffer of having twice the range needed for the trip I am taking.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You'd think Tesla owners would want to smell their own farts anyway. ;)

(reference to a South Park episode, for those that don't get it)

I have no "hatred" of anything, I am just tired of listening to it here on a diesel website, aside from threads specifically placed for that topic. Once nwdriver posts, in ANY thread, it becomes a shill for EVs and how the planet is going to implode, and we are all idiots, yada-yada-yada. He just cannot grasp anything outside of his own little pie in the sky world. I choose to think that we TDI owners are actually far more "green" than a lot of other Americans, and we shouldn't be beat up on because we have chosen to drive a 50 MPG car instead of a 15 MPG car as being "not enough". I think taking care of something old(er), and efficient, is the ultimate recycling. And if it works for me, and others, then so be it. To each his own.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I think taking care of something old(er), and efficient, is the ultimate recycling.
Our a superior way of being "green." Few take the raw materials and energy that it takes to fabricate and assemble a car into consideration when totaling the car's carbon footprint. Or disposal, for that matter.

I maintain that driving my Jetta half a million miles is far more ecologically sound than changing cars every three years, or even driving an EV for 10 years but ending up with a something that's only eligible for a scrap yard.
 

kjclow

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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'm with IBW that EVs are not carrying their share of the "road tax" burden, since that's levied through purchase of fuels they don't use. This is likely to become a LOT more interesting when the all-electric tractor-trailer cabs start appearing on the roads, since diesel tractor-trailers buy a LOT of fuel. There's been no real discussion about how to account for the "gas tax" revenue lost to EVs, other than some hare-brained silliness about GPS trackers being forced on the owners, and it needs to start happening SOON.
In most states, the taxes collected from fuel sales account for less than half of the needs for infrastructure support. The remaining needs are mostly made up from property taxes or in some cases special sales taxes. So the people we ought to be going after to get more tax dollars are the apartment renters. E-vehicles don't make enough of a ripple in the pond yet to matter to the fuel tax issue.

I'm a few days late to this thread so if my post is a repeat of what others have already said, I'm sorry.
 

bhtooefr

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Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
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None
Apartment renters indirectly pay property tax, FWIW - the building owners pay it, and will therefore pass it on to renters in the form of increased rent.
 

bizzle

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May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
In most states, the taxes collected from fuel sales account for less than half of the needs for infrastructure support. The remaining needs are mostly made up from property taxes or in some cases special sales taxes. So the people we ought to be going after to get more tax dollars are the apartment renters. E-vehicles don't make enough of a ripple in the pond yet to matter to the fuel tax issue.

I'm a few days late to this thread so if my post is a repeat of what others have already said, I'm sorry.
If the infrastructure is underfunded then the fuel tax intended to pay for it should be raised.
 

scooperhsd

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Aug 19, 2003
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Kansas City KS
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NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
EV's might make sense - strictly around town. Out here on the great Plains - a drive to anywhere that I need to go is at least 200 miles. I can easily go there AND back in my 2000 TDI Beetle - I prefer to refill my 2015 Golf when leaving so I don't have to fill up on the way home.


I get so many miles per tank (over 600) and drive my Beetle so little right now that I have to start thinking about winter fuel NOW - in the middle of August. I'd imagine that after my next tank, I'll think about putting PowerService white in about the middle of November (along with topping off the tank) and that will take me to Febuary. We drive the Golf more than that - but I still get 400 mile tanks on it.


EV's aren't paying their way on the transportation infrastructure of this country yet. It will be worse if the tractors for 18 wheelers start to be electric. I can see a combination of the GPS trackers for EVs AND separately metered charging stations to recover the true costs of EVs.


Part of the Infrastructure problem is that politicians keep taking money out of the vehicle taxes to use elsewhere.


And if electric drive is really so superior (I kind of doubt this), why don't large trucks adopt the same model as railroad engines - the petro motor is used to generate electricity that drives the wheels ?
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
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2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I hate to rain on anybody's parade, but I heard from somewhat reliable sources, that part of the legal settlement between Volkswagen and various government agencies was they were NOT to sell diesels in US anymore.

I have not gone over the court settlement to verify these claims, but trust the source enough to take their word for it. Besides, it tracks with the powers that be and their opinions of diesels (in govn't not VW).

Jason
I have read most of the settlement, it in no way bars VW from selling diesels ever again, they just can't sell cheating diesels. The other part of the settlement was a required investment in developing not only EVs but also helping implement EV charging infrastructure as part of the penance... and there was a very large dollar figure attached to the required investment... Whole lotta zeros.

But it in no way states they can never sell new diesels again... anywhere. Just that any new diesels would have to go through the more stringent on road evaluation in order to get certification, which every diesel has had to do since the scandal now anyway...
 

kjclow

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Apr 26, 2003
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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Apartment renters indirectly pay property tax, FWIW - the building owners pay it, and will therefore pass it on to renters in the form of increased rent.
Yes, but at a lower tax rate than the average home owner. At least in the areas that I've both owned a home and rented an apartment.
 

kjclow

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Apr 26, 2003
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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
As part of the conversation on replacing our JSW, when the time comes, both hybrids and E-vehicles are being discussed. If that day were today, I think we would end up with a Highlander hybrid. Gets about the same mileage as my Ram and will seat 7, when needed. I'd love an Atlas or Q7 diesel but doubt they'll be available when the extended warranty on the JSW runs out.
 

vwxyzero

Veteran Member
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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
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'96 Passat Sedan, '96 TDI Passat Wagon, & Jetta Sedan, '83 Turbodiesel (IDI)
Yes, but at a lower tax rate than the average home owner. At least in the areas that I've both owned a home and rented an apartment.
This is complete BS. How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Homeowners property tax has always been lower than commercial real estate tax (which includes apparent buildings,) even in NC where one of my kids live.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

KITEWAGON

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Jun 29, 2009
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Seacoast, NH
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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Apartment renters indirectly pay property tax, FWIW - the building owners pay it, and will therefore pass it on to renters in the form of increased rent.

I probably shouldn't contribute to this off topic tangent, but the answer here is sort of yes and no. Property tax isn't exactly passed through. I rent apartments for whatever the market can bare. If rents are going down but taxes go up, I just absorb the hit and make less money. And if rents are going up and my taxes happen to go down then you can bet I'm keeping the extra money.

Now the taxes do impact the overall rental market, but for individual landlords it isn't like the rents are based on some kind of "cost +" formula. They are based on the rental market. And the property tax structure certainly impacts that market.
 

KITEWAGON

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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
I've considered a Fiat 500e because they're so cheap on the used market, and according to VeeDubTDI, they did a good job of ticking the right boxes for longevity of an EV drivetrain. In particular proper thermal management of the batteries. Really good bang for the buck, just a very short range.

Same, perfect for my commute. The issue that I have is that they are all in CA. I'd pretty much need to buy one there and have it shipped out here. Not more than a few EV's available around here and they aren't so cheap as CA.
 

vwxyzero

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Los Angeles, CA
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'96 Passat Sedan, '96 TDI Passat Wagon, & Jetta Sedan, '83 Turbodiesel (IDI)
Same, perfect for my commute. The issue that I have is that they are all in CA. I'd pretty much need to buy one there and have it shipped out here. Not more than a few EV's available around here and they aren't so cheap as CA.
Well at least you got the thread back to cars.
California and Oregon, and soon to be any state that has either adopted, or plans to adopt CARB standards. Fiat, and I expect any other car manufacturer are required to, or will be required to sell a certain amount of zero emission vehicles or they're be out of business in the states that have and intend to adopt CARB - which is currently close to 16 States that either have or are in the process of adopting CARB. The dealer I bought mine from, who bought lease returns from Fiat in bulk was exporting them all over the country and into Europe. Unfortunately he retired and moved to Florida.

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El Dobro

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Feb 21, 2006
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NJ
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2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
Same, perfect for my commute. The issue that I have is that they are all in CA. I'd pretty much need to buy one there and have it shipped out here. Not more than a few EV's available around here and they aren't so cheap as CA.
I bought a Spark EV that just came off lease from Carvana. They delivered it right to the house.
 

jackbombay

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Mar 12, 2002
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Diesel knows best
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A4 Jetta
Few take the raw materials and energy that it takes to fabricate and assemble a car into consideration when totaling the car's carbon footprint.
When my 2003 TDI was new people hit me with that several times, telling me that my TDI was actually terrible for the environment because of all the energy required to build it, but now its old enough than I can hold my chin high knowing that I'm doing the earth a favor by keeping "an old car on the road"?

And everybody that buys ALH Jettas now gets to wear the ever so esteemed crown of "environmental responsibility", but if it wasn't for people buying ALH Jettas new, there wouldn't be any for sale used now, it's the exact opposite of the chicken and the egg, we know used/old cars only exist because people purchase new cars, we know what came first, the new car.

I certainly see the logic that buying a new car is environmentally unfriendly, but it just doesn't hold true when the discussion is about high efficiency cars.


driving an EV for 10 years but ending up with a something that's only eligible for a scrap yard.
Why would you scrap it after 10 years? EVs can be repaired just like ALH VWs!
 
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Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I must get huge environmental creds for my restored 1935 Ford then. Saved it from going to the crusher. Still in use after about 85 years.
 

vwxyzero

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'96 Passat Sedan, '96 TDI Passat Wagon, & Jetta Sedan, '83 Turbodiesel (IDI)
I must get huge environmental creds for my restored 1935 Ford then. Saved it from going to the crusher. Still in use after about 85 years.
Like the kids would say 'pics or it didn't happen'

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
When my 2003 TDI was new people hit me with that several times, telling me that my TDI was actually terrible for the environment because of all the energy required to build it.
I don't understand this. What makes people think that a TDI takes significantly more energy to build than a gasoline powered VW?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
But if it wasn't for people buying ALH Jettas new, there wouldn't be any for sale used now, it's the exact opposite of the chicken and the egg, we know used/old cars only exist because people purchase new cars, we know what came first, the new car.

Why would you scrap it after 10 years? EVs can be repaired just like ALH VWs?
I bought my ALH new. Although I've also bought a bunch of used ones, most of which had to be resurrected. Which brings me to the second point. I wasn't saying EVs had to be scrapped in 10 years, but a lot of owners care for their cars as if they will have used them up by that time, and the only economical outcome is to scrap them. You hear those discussions here all the time, "it will cost more to fix than the car is worth, so I'm walking away."
 

jackbombay

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Mar 12, 2002
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Diesel knows best
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A4 Jetta
I don't understand this. What makes people think that a TDI takes significantly more energy to build than a gasoline powered VW?
They weren't referring specifically to the TDI aspect of my Jetta, just the fact that it was a new car, that I was a bad guy environmentally for buying a new car when I could have bought a used one.
 

jackbombay

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Mar 12, 2002
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Diesel knows best
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A4 Jetta
. I wasn't saying EVs had to be scrapped in 10 years, but a lot of owners care for their cars as if they will have used them up by that time, and the only economical outcome is to scrap them.
Ah, yea, 10 years was the average lifespan of a car in the US quite recently, it is actually up to 11.7 years now, but thats still pretty disappointing.
 

scooperhsd

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Aug 19, 2003
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Kansas City KS
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NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
Not me - I drive cars into the ground - the ultimate recycling. Sometimes even when the repair costs more than the car is worth ( my 5 speed conversion on the Beetle, for one example). I usually buy one new/ near new car per decade or so...



Beetle currently has 370,000+ miles, Golf is currently at 88,000 miles (it did about 8 months as an Uber vehicle).
 
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