Intake buildup fix?

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
Hi, I haven't logged into the site here in years. I did an intake clean out on our 2003 at about 50,000 miles when my daughter was a wee tot. I'm just getting around to doing it again now with 135,000 miles and she'll be driving soon. I'm wondering if over that timespan anyone has come up with a reasonable way to stop the soot/carbon buildup from happening? We live in Montana so no exhaust testing here and it appears we'll be keeping the car forever.

The build up was of course pretty extreme. I'd sure rather not have to do this again!

Thanks
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
There is a good chance that since you did the initial intake manifold cleaning that ULSD became mandated and the intake didn't get very gunked up again.
If it did, you may need to drive it a bit more "aggressively" after the next clean out and hopefully be the last one needed.
 

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
My wife drives the car mostly so it won't be getting driven more aggressively. :)

What is the EGR delete? Is that a computer thing or actually disconnect the EGR? It seems like if you could plug the pipe from the exhaust manifold somehow that would do it.
 

ktmkris

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Location
monroe nc
TDI
MALONE TUNES DEALER , 2005 beetle tdi dsg, 1998 vw beetle 2.slow, 2003 beetle turbo s, 1998 beetle 2.0, 2006 beetle bew
Remove egr cooler and install block off plates. Plum crank case ventilation to atmosphere. There will nothing left to gunk up the intake. Good luck
 

Votblindub

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Location
NY
TDI
MK4 Jetta Wagon
Depending on local regulations, you can block off and tune out the egr or remove all the hardware, block off the holes(they sell kits for this) and tune it out so you can pass inspection.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Remove egr cooler and install block off plates. Plum crank case ventilation to atmosphere. There will nothing left to gunk up the intake. Good luck
If you delete the EGR there is no need to also re-plumb the CCV.
Only oil vapor and blow-by gasses will be introduced and neither will clog the IM.
 

gforce1108

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Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
There is a good chance that since you did the initial intake manifold cleaning that ULSD became mandated and the intake didn't get very gunked up again.
If it did, you may need to drive it a bit more "aggressively" after the next clean out and hopefully be the last one needed.
Normally I'd agree - but I had one in a couple weeks ago that I cleaned maybe 50k ago / 4 years ago? It had significant buildup. Car has never had any other problems, but it driven like grandma is behind the wheel. Started getting overboost codes and when every single thing on "the list" checked out good, I pulled the EGR to look into the intake. Just a quick clean stopped it from going into limp mode so It'll be back in for another full clean.
 

ktmkris

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Apr 24, 2013
Location
monroe nc
TDI
MALONE TUNES DEALER , 2005 beetle tdi dsg, 1998 vw beetle 2.slow, 2003 beetle turbo s, 1998 beetle 2.0, 2006 beetle bew
If you delete the EGR there is no need to also re-plumb the CCV.
Only oil vapor and blow-by gasses will be introduced and neither will clog the IM.

You do realize crank case vapor is also mixed with oil vapor. I have had 6 tdi’s and venting ccv to atmosphere will make a oil drip here and there from the ccv pipe. If you have any blow by it goes through the ccv and burns in the engine. Let’s be honest, what tdi or diesel for that case doesn’t have a little blow by? Which would allow for more intake buildup.

I say remove all or nothing
 

WildChild80

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Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
The buildup comes from mixing the oil vapor with the soot from the exhaust through the EGR valve(way more than blow by), my 01 with a stout tune has 325k and I drive it hard from time to time. Every time I look in the boost pipes, there's a thin coat of oil and still shiny silver in the intake and race pipe.

I want to route the ccv out the down pipe one day but I've got a shifter to rebuild when I get time and I'm sure something else will need addressing and so the rat race goes

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
You do realize crank case vapor is also mixed with oil vapor. I have had 6 tdi’s and venting ccv to atmosphere will make a oil drip here and there from the ccv pipe. If you have any blow by it goes through the ccv and burns in the engine. Let’s be honest, what tdi or diesel for that case doesn’t have a little blow by? Which would allow for more intake buildup.
I say remove all or nothing
It is the particulate content of the EGR exhaust gasses mixed with the CCV oil vapor
that cakes on to the intake manifold and ports.
It's safe to say that the amount of particulates present in the CCV vapor alone is not
worth worrying about, at least based on my experience with an EGR delete.
I didn't care for the odor much when I tried a CCV delete on my ALH. The CCV is back on it.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
look up generator "wet stacking"

the low combustion temperatures at cold idle makes for a very sticky carbon buildup in the exhaust manifold, that burns out once load is applied and the manifold gets hot enough to burn it back out. end of story on a generator, might cause some roof fires if the buildup gets heavy enough before it is burned out, but that's no big deal

On your engine however, EGR takes this sticky vapor and poops it into the intake.
The intake never gets hot enough to burn it back out.
Solutions? EGR delete
or just minimize the time the engine is idling unloaded cold. Hop in, start it and drive. Idling it to warm up is the worst thing you could do.
 

horn

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Location
Calabash
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Or you can get just 1 plate and replace the EGR Valve/ASV with a "race pipe".

You can also just remove the vac line that goes EGR Valve and block off the line....
 

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
So, I've ordered the Mark Malone Stage 1 tune with Dynamic EGR and they are renting me the computer to flash the ECU. I may pick up an CCV vapor canister of some sort too. It seems to me that would probably take care of my intake clogging issues while allowing the EGR and exhaust coolant heater to still function when it's cold out.

Would unhooking the EGR throw a CEL? I thought about that. Would you want to plug that unhooked vacuum hose?
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Yes, it will throw a code (the ECU will notice that the MAF value does not change when the EGR is commanded open) and you do want to plug the line.
 

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
Applied the stage 1 tune today. So sweet! I bet this is how the engine was supposed to run! I'm wondering if this is similar to how the Euro models were tuned?

Anyway, very worth while I'm thinking!
 

ToxicDoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Location
Virginia, US
TDI
2001 Jetta, S7, .216
Applied the stage 1 tune today. So sweet! I bet this is how the engine was supposed to run! I'm wondering if this is similar to how the Euro models were tuned?

Anyway, very worth while I'm thinking!
The Euro models have the larger nozzles I believe. Although I agree, a basic tune makes a big drivability improvement.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Applied the stage 1 tune today. So sweet! I bet this is how the engine was supposed to run! I'm wondering if this is similar to how the Euro models were tuned?

Anyway, very worth while I'm thinking!
The Euro models have the larger nozzles I believe. Although I agree, a basic tune makes a big drivability improvement.
I too was pleasantly surprised when I put the RC-2 on my stock 99.5, mainly to fix hard hot starting. It felt like 30% more power, by the numbers it was more like 15-20%.
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
There is a good chance that since you did the initial intake manifold cleaning that ULSD became mandated and the intake didn't get very gunked up again.
tbh...VERY tired of reading this. It simply isn't true.
I admit, I wasn't around in the pre-ULSD days, but whatever diesel is available nowadays, still most definitely causes carbon build up in the intake. Absolutely zero question about it.
Fuel was switched over to ULSD in 2006? Then why are cars made after 2006 having mega CBU issues?
Look at BMW 335d (made from 2009-2011). Check out the DIYs on those forums - those guys usually do intake cleanings every 30k from the little bit of reading I've done.
Additionally, I cleaned out the EGR valve and intake on my ALH. I removed the EGR 800 miles later and it was just as caked as before I had cleaned it.

Even the newest diesels have soot in the exhaust. It's a HUGE battle with diesel engines. Additionally, EGR is used more than ever. Following that logic, soot is going to get into the intake track, and cause build up.


But yes: the way to eliminate it altogether is to do what you did - tune the EGR out and use a block off plate. The only reason I haven't committed is I'm worried how much longer warm-ups would take during the winter without EGR
 
Last edited:

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Not a lot. But it will definitely fail you on an emissions check -- if you tune that out beware a physical inspection and make sure whatever you do is NOT a visible modification.
 

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
The only reason I haven't committed is I'm worried how much longer warm-ups would take during the winter without EGR
I decided to go with the CCV catch can and Malone Dynamic EGR tune rather than block-off plate and EGR delete route. I live in Montana and we have a plenty long and cold winter so I want the faster warmup with the EGR.

ULSD has definitely not eliminated coking of the intake. Maybe it slowed it a bit but it still totally happens.
 

mt_mapper

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
Helena, Montana
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, silver
Not a lot. But it will definitely fail you on an emissions check -- if you tune that out beware a physical inspection and make sure whatever you do is NOT a visible modification.
I live in Montana and we have no emissions check or inspection. :D
 

DMan1198

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Slave Lake, AB
TDI
02 VW Jetta
I blocked my egr off last winter (we set a 167 day record of temps below freezing, and a lot of it was below -20c), and warmup times weren’t too noticeably longer over a functional egr. Then this summer I built a catch can for the ccv. Built it baffled, and media filled, so no smell (I have it open on my 1 ton, and it’s noticeable sometimes), and it’s worked as designed so far.
 

smogmonster

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Location
home
TDI
5
So what is the best quickest way to clean out a hunker up intake? I read a post saying Napa do it for $20? I called 3 napas and they had no idea why anybody would say that
 

DMan1198

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Location
Slave Lake, AB
TDI
02 VW Jetta
Just cleaning the inlet side, a wire wheel on a die grinder works decent. I’ve also used a pressure washer before.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
fire is the only way

spent days scrubbing mine in gasoline and still some more chunks came out when I tried torching it afterwords
 
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