hacked odometer

Well I had my MK4 up for sale and the buyer pulled a carfax. Apparently the PO had rolled back 100K off the odometer. Is there anyway to verify this? Could the carfax be mistaken?

Thr Carfax could be mistaken, all it takes is one of the reporting shops to have a Freudian slip and BAM there's an extra 100k miles. Is there a big jump in odometer readings in a short period of time? Also some states, like Michigan, don't report mileage on a vehicle over ten years old. The slot is simply blank.

Find somebody with VCDS. Your mileage is stored in the instrument panel and in the ECU. VCDS can read the ECU mileage and you can compare it to the instrument panel. If they are the same, your odometer has not been rolled back. If they are different, it could be several things, but if it is off by 100k miles, somebody rolled the odometer back by 100k.

Have Fun!

Don

Can you alter ECU mileage?

Wouldn't you need a VagTacho to alter cluster miles?

Wankel7 said:

Can you alter ECU mileage?

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Anything can be hacked (altered). However, changing the mileage in the ECU would require different tools and different knowledge than just the instrument panel. Therefore it is unlikely (but not impossible) that they bothered to change both locations

Wankel7 said:

Wouldn't you need a VagTacho to alter cluster miles?

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Yes, or some other similar tool. I have no idea what kinds of nefarious tools are out there for chop shops and other automotive bottom feeders.

Have Fun!

Don

Unless of. Course somebody swapped out the dash and the ecu from the same car. Then they would match. I guess I would need to see the report.

Carfax can be wrong.

Recently I got interested in a Corolla for sale at a dealer. Went in, and there was a big discrepancy between what their computer said and what the odo said. No biggie, and walked on the car due to price. Later I checked their website, and the error still existed. And Carfax took note of that, listing a discrepancy.

Two weeks later, the discrepancy was fixed at Carfax and the dealer.

*

Speaking of which, I once claimed an accident on my Jetta. Minor accident, no police report. But an insurance payout. Not listed on the Carfax for my car. I don't think the dates for when I got emissions testing lined up properly either on their list.

Not saying I'd ignore a Carfax, just that it's easy to goof.

Probably easier to hack CarFax than the cluster.
I bought a 2003 Jetta 1.8T wagon w/124K miles on it. CarFax shows dealer maintained regularly. Dealer has no records of ever having the car in the shop, or any of their branches other than front fender and rear hatch replacement under corrosion recall.
Question is, is the VW service dept wrong or has the independent low life seller/dealer fabricated an elaborate CarFax report??
I don't put much faith in CarFax.

jettawreck said:

Probably easier to hack CarFax than the cluster...................
I don't put much faith in CarFax.

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smart

BMW also stores the mileage in a second place - the Lighting Control Module.
The odometer shows a dot in the lower left corner of the odometer if there is a discrepancy of the two.
That also means that if you have the instrument cluster out of the car (for repair) and one drives it x miles, the dot will show up. Basically, no one will touch the car with the dot showing.
Does VW have a similar "alerting" system?
frank

ecu if original will show true. cluster may have been changed out with no on the wiser an owner ago or previous owner not revealing. a cluster swap needs a dealer to make it work i think due to immobilizer. i can sell you a 134k cluster if you want even less miles:.)

OK here's a slightly relevant question, if someone runs 5000 miles on the non original ECU, does that 5000 miles get "burned" onto the original ECU when it is re installed? I'm asking about the issues swapping ECU's with different tunes could cause in regards to mileageon the odometer/ecu...

I am pretty sure that each ECU keeps it's own data, it does not get it from the cluster or anywhere else in the car. Therefore any replacement of either ECU or Instrument cluster will cause the 2 to disagree about mileage. The only exception I am aware of to this rule is a new cluster. A new cluster can have the mileage set to whatever you want (or need), but this only works for clusters with under 100km (IIRC) on the odometer.

Have Fun!

Don

Seems the VAG Tacho shows Kilometers ,,,, I do remember seeing like 120k more on a 2002 Jetta Gasser that I was helping with key programming. Then I noticed the number was in Kilometer as opposed to miles...

Just saying!

I am interested in searching the ecu for mileage info. Can somebody point me in the right direction? I have a VAG-COM cable and VCDS. Just need to know where to look...

Also after looking at the Carfax it appears that the owner before me rolled back the odo 100k. They only owned it for 4 months and they had it smogged right before they sold it to me. I'm actually surprised at the condition of the car for almost 300k miles. Very simple and robust vehicle. Of course now I have to deal with this mess trying to sell it because I cannot pass on the lie to the next buyer.

I would also like to roll the odo forward ( if possible ) to the correct reading if I can in fact pull the mileage from the ecu...

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

INISLDR said:

I am interested in searching the ecu for mileage info. Can somebody point me in the right direction? I have a VAG-COM cable and VCDS. Just need to know where to look...

Also after looking at the Carfax it appears that the owner before me rolled back the odo 100k. They only owned it for 4 months and they had it smogged right before they sold it to me. I'm actually surprised at the condition of the car for almost 300k miles. Very simple and robust vehicle. Of course now I have to deal with this mess trying to sell it because I cannot pass on the lie to the next buyer.

I would also like to roll the odo forward ( if possible ) to the correct reading if I can in fact pull the mileage from the ecu...

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

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Hook up a VCDS cable and just autoscan it. The ECU mileage will show up in the file name...

Interesting topic... I've had a couple ECU's in and out of my Jetta over the years. I know the ODO is correct for my car. I'll have to check it against the ECU. I don't remember exactly which one is in it currently. My bet is they don't match.

Hadn't heard about the limitations of Vag-Tacho when it comes to miles/km and changing the cluster mileage. Never tried it nor do I anticipate doing so. Just used it to discover SKC's a few times.

On an older car like an A4, I suppose there could be several ligit reasons why the odo and ECU don't match.

INISLDR said:

I am interested in searching the ecu for mileage info. Can somebody point me in the right direction? I have a VAG-COM cable and VCDS. Just need to know where to look...

Also after looking at the Carfax it appears that the owner before me rolled back the odo 100k. They only owned it for 4 months and they had it smogged right before they sold it to me. I'm actually surprised at the condition of the car for almost 300k miles. Very simple and robust vehicle. Of course now I have to deal with this mess trying to sell it because I cannot pass on the lie to the next buyer.

I would also like to roll the odo forward ( if possible ) to the correct reading if I can in fact pull the mileage from the ecu...

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Click to expand...

I understand your wanting to set the odometer right (for all the implied reasons) and I don't know what the law/requirements in your state are, but it may be that if you mess with the mileage now you have "tampered" with it and may have some responsibility there. I would leave things alone and disclose to the buyer what you know about it and nothing more since you don't know for sure exactly what the true mileage is.
Are you trying to sell it just because it has lots more miles than you thought?

If what's stored in the ECU does not match the odometer, is there a way to know which item (ECU or instrument panel) was replaced or if the odometer was rolled forward or back?

here's one for an 06. might be the same.
http://devforums2.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=165750&highlight=odometer+mileage+retrieve
here's a mk4:
http://devforums2.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=399573&highlight=cluster+mileage+vagcom

Update:

I was able to run an auto scan with VCDS and the mileage matches that of the in dash odometer exactly. So does this mean that the ecu was swapped out and or hacked as well? It would be nice if there was a way to verify this. I am leaning toward a Carfax typo. For what its worth it felt good to see that they matched...is there a way to compare numbers on the engine and or ecu and see if they are original with the car? For example I am pretty sure the head has been replaced on this engine so those engine numbers would not match...

INISLDR said:

Update:

I was able to run an auto scan with VCDS and the mileage matches that of the in dash odometer exactly. So does this mean that the ecu was swapped out and or hacked as well? It would be nice if there was a way to verify this. I am leaning toward a Carfax typo. For what its worth it felt good to see that they matched...is there a way to compare numbers on the engine and or ecu and see if they are original with the car? For example I am pretty sure the head has been replaced on this engine so those engine numbers would not match...

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I would call Carfax and have them double check whatever entry gave them the 100k+ mileage. Was it just one entry with 100k difference? Are there other Carfax entries with more miles then presently showing? Make some type of arguement that an error in data is making your car difficult to sell.

INISLDR said:

Update:

I was able to run an auto scan with VCDS and the mileage matches that of the in dash odometer exactly. So does this mean that the ecu was swapped out and or hacked as well? It would be nice if there was a way to verify this. I am leaning toward a Carfax typo. For what its worth it felt good to see that they matched...is there a way to compare numbers on the engine and or ecu and see if they are original with the car? For example I am pretty sure the head has been replaced on this engine so those engine numbers would not match...

Click to expand...

Having tried this myself, it appears VCDS just shows what your Comfort Control module reports, not the ECU itself. Mine said exactly what the ODO said, while I'm sure the ECU is not original for this car. There must be some other way to extract the ECU mileage.

Not sure if this is related or not but some of the engines components and bracketry have wax pen writing on them. I am starting to think the motor is not original to the car. I guess who really knows at this point. I had to recognize on the plus side that the car runs great and reports an average of just under 50 mpg while only using a quart in 10k miles. I was honest about the condition and all the carfax info to a possible buyer and they did not seam to mind but then again I have not heard from them again so...

Test driving etiquette: Does it seam right to take somebodies car out and pull red line shifts like its a formula one car? I just don't drive my vehicles that hard and while on the one hand I don't blame them for trying it out, I thought it inconsiderate. Testing the brakes by pulling a panic stop, sure that's reasonable. They made a comment that it might need brakes; sure I said, probably does.

Then one of the drivers sat at 3k rpm driving 60 mph without shifting into OD. After a few minutes I had to remind them that there was an OD so they would up shift. Anyway I thought to have a talk with the next test driver that once they buy it they can drive it down the highway in 3rd if they want, but until I get the cash it's still my car and to please respect that.

If it does not sell in the next week or so I am going to break it to my wife that she will be driving it cross country. Won't be a fast trip as I will be in the Quigley pulling our camper, but it will save me from buying one on the other side...

From VCDS main screen, I believe its under other options and then you get EDC15/16 mileage. This will pull the mileage right from the ECU which is independent of the cluster. Not many scan tools out there can change ECU mileage so unless it was swapped, its usually dead on.

i would let no one drive it unless they give a deposit. you can take them for a drive in it if they want. that IS an inconsiderate way to treat another persons property.

turbocharged798 said:

From VCDS main screen, I believe its under other options and then you get EDC15/16 mileage. This will pull the mileage right from the ECU which is independent of the cluster. Not many scan tools out there can change ECU mileage so unless it was swapped, its usually dead on.

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Thank you for this! I will check it out when I get home from work tomorrow.

You don't sell many cars do you....