Eurotrash Motorsports: W8 4Motion to BHW swap

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
01E, SMF no spacer - pretty much the exact same setup I used in the B7...I was looking around for the slave cylinders and it looks like they're all pretty much the same length :( unfortunately that means the fork inside is not lined up or something else...

B7:


Allroad:


then again the B8 cylinder seems a lot longer?

B8:


this is not giving me happy thoughts :(
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
or could the fork potentially be different? it looks like it came with two different variations?

 
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Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
One of those is the 01A and the other is the 01E. They both use the same clutch cylinder. The B8 has a completely different gearbox.

Could it simply be the pushrod wasn't lined up with the fork when it was assembled?

I have an engine and gearbox still attached together in the workshop. I can measure the depth of the clutch fork relative to the slave cylinder housing so you can compare to yours :)
 

Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
43mm from the mounting surface to the indent in the clutch fork. The metal and plastic slaves per your B7 and Allroad pics are interchangeable and also the same between 01A and 01E.

 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
Thanks MJ - great info...I`ll measure mine up again...after I took it out the first look suggested that with the slave cylinder in, the piston is not compressed so when I hit the pedal it just blows out...

so I have the 01E transmission but the clutch is typically used with O1A...so could the clutch kit just be narrower therefore I have to use the O1A lever? It worked on the B7 which uses an 01E type setup so I`m not sure...I do have a spare 01A lever if I need to use that?
 

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
I dont think the 01a lever works. I think you use the lever that matches the trans. Pretty sure the levers are not interchangeable.
 

Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
Correct ^ You have to use the fork which fits the transmission as they are a different design. 012/ 01A / 01E all have the same release bearing to bellhousing dimension and the clutch stack height is the same, except for those versions which use a spacer.
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
k great...this means that either something shifted around during installation or I simply didn't have the slave cylinder installed correctly...I used the correct fork and the clutch dimension is standard so there should be no reason for the dimensions to be off...

hopefully I don't have to pull the engine as this is the last item on the to-do list before I go for a drive...
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
well I think I resolved the clutch issue but I don't yet know the reason for it...

picked up a metal slave cylinder to replace the busted plastic W8 one and extended the rod by 35mm



tested the clutch - it engages properly so it looks like it worked...we'll see if we can track the difference that caused this but my bets are on a thicker W8 clutch resulting in a different clutch fork which doesn't work with the Valeo SMFW

assuming nothing crazy comes up the car will be finished next week...got a few little things to button up including a broken vacuum reservoir, getting a new tensioner and getting a relay in for the AC compressor...
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
Done and done...

https://youtu.be/01mNo7dfzT8

I'm tracking down an engine shut off right that could be a potential bad crank sensor...also for some reason I've got a cam sensor code but neither of those two were bad before the engine was pulled so who knows...I thought it could be a fueling problem but I've got plenty of fuel up front...I do see bubbles in the return line so I may have to do injector seals down the road but not opening it up right now...also - not sure why but I get an oil pressure warning on the dash...the first time it happened I obviously freaked out and thought it's BSM delete related but I also get the warning with the pressure switch unplugged so I`ll have to figure out where that's coming from...

https://youtu.be/4VyH1fANtOU

the clutch works well and I'm not really detecting any crazy vibrations at this point...the transmission received a complete oil change and seems to work well...I may change it again at some point if I see any weird behaviour from it...

had to switch the BHW throttle pedal out but that was expected...so far I haven't modified any wires between the engine and car harnesses...

Left to do:

- AC relay and charge
- brakes
- new cam/crank/oil pressure sensors
- tune (Demon Diesel)
- exhaust (single line to W8 dual mufflers)
 
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nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
looks like the new crank sensor solved the intermittent shut off at idle, but the cam sensor is nowhere to be found...replaced the sensor and still have no signal so either my timing is way off which is unlikely or I've got some strange wiring issue - will check the pins later this week...

replaced the oil pressure switch and still getting the light on the dash so before I go drive it around I'll verify with a gauge what my oil pressure is...I suppose it's possible that the oil pump I used is faulty but I just don't want to believe it because that means taking the pan off....again :(
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Just manually check the pressure at the sensor hole - get the engine nice and hot and check the actual pressure at idle - then you will know for sure.
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
Yup - my dad plugged it and I verified...is it possible he messed it up and I didn't pay enough attention? sure...hopefully not but crazier things have happened in the past
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
sigh...

camshaft sensor was an easy fix - apparently the camshaft and coolant level sensor plugs are the same and are right next to each other :) problem solved

the oil pressure is a different story...checked everything and the only thing i can come up is the oil is draining back into the pan...we opened the filter housing, plugged the filter drain and the oil just leaks right out through the engine outlet in the housing...sadly I think we're taking the pan back off :(
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
QuickTD - do you have a pic of which hole it is on the top?
I think we tracked this down to my dad misreading the info I sent him and plugging the wrong hole...



he plugged the one circled in red under the pump as opposed to the one under the windage tray...

now I'm wondering what the hole he plugged is used for and whether plugging the return from the top fixes my problem...I think we'll pop it open from the bottom anyways - I'd want to get rid of the plug he installed...I`ll see if we can sort it out this week - I'm itching to drive :)
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
yup - I had all the right info but was away when he did it and made the mistake of not double checking everything...oh well - lesson learned

the hole circled in red wasn't threaded so he did have to tap it, which is why I`m worried i that's another return for something...although all the pics I've got of the BEW doesn't have that hole there so I guess it's just an extra boss for the BSM or something

trying to chase down pics now to see if I can pick the right hole from the top before I open it

here's a pic from JFettig



I am assuming the BSM is fed through a pressured oil supply so it's gotta be in the top middle there but there two holes are standard on the rest of the engines - small one for the head and big one for the block...

but if I look at this pic the drain hole lines up with the far left one on the bottom three drain lines which appears to be too big for an 8mm hole unless JFettig's pic is not a BHW

 
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nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
so it doesn't face forward but downward? so you can't tap a plug in but press it...k k thanks for the info...yeah made sense about JFettig's pic above
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
oil pressure fixed...exactly what I expected - dad plugged in the wrong hole :) pressure is up and the car runs well...time to start driving and get the tune fixed up...
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
"Dad plugged in the wrong hole" needs to be a blipshift t-shirt.

Congrats on the progress.
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
"Dad plugged in the wrong hole" needs to be a blipshift t-shirt.
hahaha...I just re-read it to myself and lol-ed...

Scott I may allow visitation from time to time once it's tuned...maybe I will bring it to the next beer...urgh I mean working lunch...
 

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
HAHA! dad plugged the wrong hole.....

Glad you found the issue. Any damage done by low pressure? Seems like you are fine.
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
no damage - we barely ran it...actually with the gauge hooked up you can see that with the hole unplugged the engine still builds pressure (we saw about 10+psi) but not up to spec...I'm excited to button everything up and get her on the road this weekend...
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
What oil pressure do you have now that the hole is plugged?

Did you fix it through the oil filter adapter or pull the pan?
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
pulled the pan - it was a little extra work but figured it was worth making sure we didn't do any other bubus...

I wasn't there when my dad did it but he said he saw the 60psi relief valve pressure and it was going down as it was warming up...the gauge setup was a little questionable so I`ll actually get a proper T and fit in a permanent gauge for future use...
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
buttoned everything up and drove the car yesterday :) runs well and pulls strong - going to take it in for the exhaust this week and do the brakes and hopefully that's it for a while...

while I'm doing that I'm troubleshooting excessive air in the return lines right now - the car dies every now and then (what I thought was perhaps crank sensor related) so we'll look possibly swapping the tandem pump...I've got a clean air free supply feed from the lift pump and lots of air in the return so something's up...either the tandem pump is having some sort of blow by into the return or the injectors O-rings need to be replaced but the way it behaves it points to the tandem pump...we managed to get a nice clean return yesterday after a restart, took it for a drive and came back to the same air situation...

minor annoyance in the grand scheme of things really - the car drives really nice...no shaking, no strange noises, clutch engages great
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
she drives....

https://youtu.be/L5o-_WxuvZk

but I`m still dealing with this nonsense...

this is after the engine shuts down when warm

https://youtu.be/1T8q6ul87Ns

https://youtu.be/vTwgSqxqF8Y

I swapped the tandem pump but it's the same thing...I guess I`m pulling the injectors out...I have zero air from the lift pump and copious amounts in the return line...they come up when the engine warms up - when cold I can get it to clear up...this results in shutdowns at idle when warm...also once it shuts off it has a hard time starting

any thoughts other than injector O-rings?
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
sigh....been dealing with this hot shut off for a week now...swapped in 3 tandem pumps and finally bought a new one to realize it doesn't fix the problem...changed the injector seals as well but there was no visible damage on them....

basically car starts first time everytime when cold...runs well, revs fine etc....when it warms up in gets air in the line and if I`m driving it shuts off and has a really hard time starting after...it's clearly temperature related but I didn't think the fuel temp sensor really controls that much...I`ll have to play with that now - is it possible the diesel gets really hot and the ECU pulls the timing or something? there's no cooler in the return line but I've been running my Audi without one for a year now and no issues...
 

nitec

Vendor
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
finished...

https://youtu.be/SdyPFKNm2qA

stock tune acceleration

https://youtu.be/2rKEa00yRG8

W8 transmission gearing

https://youtu.be/o17heWCUNDE

Left to do short term:
- rear calipers
- exhaust
- tune (Fuel pump code delete, cruise control, mapping)
- glow plug wires
- block heater

Left to do long term:
- new camshaft/lifters (just in case)
- AC (relay install)

First impressions:

clutch works great - zero vibrations, no extra noises of any sort...the car drives like my stock MK4...it's very capable for the extra added weight of the 4motion...a tune will obviously make it a lot more fun but I could drive it like this all day

Project wise - the swap was VERY straight forward with zero custom work...obviously I was very lucky to have a 6spd manual to start with...the harness was plug and play and other than turning the IMMO off, the ECU worked straight forward...one thing I did wrong was giving away the BHW rad support and AC stuff because I expected to use the W8 setup - that didn't work...in the future I`ll make sure to keep everything until I`m all done...I wouldn't hesitate to do this again any day...
 
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