TDI in a Toyota pickup

Laserface

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Location
Georgia
TDI
ALH
The reason I brought this up was because of the gear ratios that Toyota used in the 4x4s. The lowest ratio used was 4.10 (maybe 3.90, but its still low). The rear would be easy, just swap in a 2wd rear end. The front would be tricky though. You could do like Rockwell said and swap in a solid axle. Without the swap, you will be limited to low gear ratios and high(er) cruising RPMs. The higher RPMs may not be an issue though.

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

This site claims the front diff in the 4x4 uses the same internals as the 2wd rear end. If so, then the solution is easy. You could run any gear ratio that came in the 2wd trucks.
 

Rockwell

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Location
Manchester, NH
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI (R.I.P.), 1.6TD Toyota pickup, 2011 BMW 335d, 1996 Passat TDI
4x4 IFS (front) diffs are 7". Some 2wd diffs are 7" and some are 8". It would be pricy to convert to a solid front axle just to get the higher gear ratio, but a good option if you planned to do it anyways. Taller tires would be an easier option but would cost you some MPG. I didnt "need" 4wd so I chose a 2wd for its lighter weight and better gear ratios, its not as tough looking as a 4x4 but mpg was a higher priority
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
The gearing and size of the differentials depends a lot on what year Toyota you have.

Here's a summary:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/
Transmission gear ratios:
http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/transmission/transmission-gear-ratio-chart

For my truck, I can get 4.10 gears. It came with 4.30 gears because it was an automatic. The front diff is 7.5" and the rear diff is 8".

If you plan on hot-rodding your diesel at all, I would highly recommend the sturdier drivetrain components found on the v6 and the turbo 4 cylinder.

I'm running 33" tires along with the 4.30 gears. At about 66mph, the engine rpm is approximately 2750rpm. EGT's run about 850*F on flat roads at that speed. I would link to decrease the rpm by going to 4.10 gears, but this will also increase EGT's and make towing while climbing more difficult.
 

mr.mindless

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
Taller tires would be an easier option but would cost you some MPG.
That is FAR from a hard & fast rule.

If taller tires lower your RPMs to better match your power range, without being too much heavier or more aggressive to increase rolling resistance, milage will improve.

I put heavy all terrain tires on my Jetta, but larger (29" - see sig), and the larger size canceled out the higher rolling resistance and my corrected mileage barely changed.

If you listen to idiots who just look at a trip computer, or do the math without correcting for odometer error, of course it will get worse. So don't listen to those idiots.
 

teggy6

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
snoho, wa
TDI
toyota tdi in future
this is awesome i tried to read through your thread it looks awesome, i have a 94 toyota with a failing v6, and plan on doing this swap beging of next year. looks like it took quite some time to complete the project. but the more and more threads i see about it better inspire me to do mine.::D, only thing i was real worried about was the wiring haha that doesn't look fun. did you ever get a video of it driving about and all? i didn't see one in the gallery.

awesome work though love it :eek:
 

LukeWilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
Toyota 4x4 TDI, 2004 Allroad TDI
In all honestly i was pretty worried about the wiring when i did mine as well. E*clipse really helped me out and it really wasn't that bad. To make the engine run i only needed to hook 3 wires from the VW ecu into the existing Toyota harness. There will be 4 or 5 more for all of the warning lights, but that's about it. Get yourself a good manual with wiring diagrams and study it until you understand how everything works. This way when you actually go to do the wiring it is all kinda of common sense.

Good luck,

Luke
 

teggy6

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
snoho, wa
TDI
toyota tdi in future
In all honestly i was pretty worried about the wiring when i did mine as well. E*clipse really helped me out and it really wasn't that bad. To make the engine run i only needed to hook 3 wires from the VW ecu into the existing Toyota harness. There will be 4 or 5 more for all of the warning lights, but that's about it. Get yourself a good manual with wiring diagrams and study it until you understand how everything works. This way when you actually go to do the wiring it is all kinda of common sense.

Good luck,

Luke
hey luke thanks i was looking over your tread too, both looks like awesome work, thanks for the encouragment, did you get any videos of yours running?
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
I ran the numbers for my stock Toyota 22RE with 5 speed and factory size tires. My VW (O1M) runs 2200 rpm at 60 and the Toyota turns 2500 at 60 in 5th. I can increase to 32 inch tires with factory suspension and get the rpms down to where the TDI likes to run. Of course narrow tires are going to be load range D or E and be quite heavy, and 32 x 11.5 are fairly wide.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Since the air drag on the truck is alot more, 2500 is not far off from optimum. That puts it at 3125 at 75mph, still ok.

Is that with the lowest available numerical axle ratio? If I do one of these I would like a lower ratio so if conditions were good I'd use fifth, and downshift to fourth otherwise.
 

Laserface

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Location
Georgia
TDI
ALH
Since the air drag on the truck is alot more, 2500 is not far off from optimum. That puts it at 3125 at 75mph, still ok.

Is that with the lowest available numerical axle ratio? If I do one of these I would like a lower ratio so if conditions were good I'd use fifth, and downshift to fourth otherwise.
82-95 Toyota 4wds used 4.10 as the highest (lowest numerically) available factory ratio. Some trucks came with 4.30s, 4.56s, and 4.88s depending on the year.

For a more narrow 32 inch tire, you could switch to 16 inch wheels and run a 235/85R16. The downside is that most are heavier E rated tires. E rated tires are going to be fairly stiff on a small truck. Rated at 3000lbs load capacity each, just one of the tires would nearly support a Toyota pick up.
 

LukeWilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
Toyota 4x4 TDI, 2004 Allroad TDI
A 4x4 22re had 4.10 gears in it which was the lowest Toyota offered. I am running 31" tires will 4.10 gears so i think i should be alright.
 

teggy6

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
snoho, wa
TDI
toyota tdi in future
Here are some update photos.

Here is the go pedal installed. There is full range of motion of the Potentiometer and everything clears. I've decided to dump the standard Toyota e-brake and use a tunnel mounted one instead. Newer Toyotas have them, but I was able to get one off a Nissan Pathfinder in the junkyard.
do you need to use a different gas pedal? little confused on that part?
 

LukeWilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
Toyota 4x4 TDI, 2004 Allroad TDI
VW TDI's use a drive by wire setup. You can see the black cylinder at the top of the pedal, this is a potentiometer used to detect throttle position. The ecu needs this input to run, it is one of the mandatory sensors.
 

hunter4321

New member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
1.9 tdi
Here is a shot of the accessory belts. The power steering belt is 735mm long. I had to add spacers to move the power steering pulleys out approximately 3mm. The power steering belt rubbed on the new water pump pulley. Other than that, everything worked well.



Do you have a part number for that water pump pulley? I'm doing a similar swap in a 94 Toyota and I'm trying to get my engine ready for install, but need to get this issue ironed out soon.
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Oh man, I've been AWOL! :eek:

Thanks for helping folks out, Luke! :)

The water pump pulley came off a VR6 that was in our local junkyard. I'm sorry, but I don't have a part #.

The suggestion came from G60ing - there's a good chance he would know.:)

Regarding gearing:
One thing to keep in mind is the BSFC gets pretty bad at higher RPM. Couple that with the fact that the truck is an aerodynamic brick. While the engine can run just fine at 3k, your mpg won't be very good. I try to keep below 2750, which is about 70mph w/ my setup. (4.30 gears & 33" tires)
 

cumminsfromthecold

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Location
HumCo
TDI
'84 Toyota 1Z 4WD x-cab
Re. Alternator and AC setups

Glad to see this is still happening! Did you ever figure out anything with the starters?

Also very recently while replacing my waterpump I found a bolt on solution to the alternator/steering shaft clearance issues with a 1Z/AHU. This will save much messing around.

In Canada, possibly in the US you could get a 1Z with no air conditioning. These engines used a totally different alt. bracket and alt. I have one of these setups and bolted it up for kicks. It clears with plenty of room to spare. You can buy these setups brand new.. marketed as ABF alternator setups for gasser 16V.
Thanks for posting this, Spulen81 - incredibly helpful. I plan on deleting the AC now on my 1Z. Looking into that...
 

cumminsfromthecold

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Location
HumCo
TDI
'84 Toyota 1Z 4WD x-cab
Toyota driver's side motor mounts

The motor is now standing on its own.

Sequence:
>Mark position of new mounts and pull motor out.
>Grind off old motor mounts (see previous post)
>Because the motor mounts are very close to the suspension upper pivots, I had to remove them to weld the mounts in place. The Toyota has torsion rod front springs, so these needed to be detensioned first. One side worked fine, the other side siezed and the tensioning bolt needed to be cut off. :mad: May be a good time for new torsion bars...:rolleyes:

Here is a shot of the drivers side mount:


Passenger side mount:


Right now the mounts are just tacked in place. Even with just the tack welds, they support the motor. I'll have to remove them & the motor again to do the final welding. Clearance on bottom is ~3/4" > 1" from oil pan to front differential and driver side axle mount. Clearance on top is ~ 1/2" from hood insulation to oil fill cap. (I think I can use a shorter fill inlet)

Clearance issues:
Intercooler oil return line contacts starter. Ideas, anyone?
The industrial motors seem to have the exhaust pipe upside down, with the turbo on top. This would solve the starter-exhaust clearance issue. Can the exhuast manifold simply be turned upside down?
Can the turbo's compressor be rotated? It would help intercooler pipe routing.
Anyone know interchangeability of the thermostat housing? I would like to route in straight down or away from the engine. Not straight back like stock.
The oil drain is definitely an issue. It currently points right at the front differential. The best option will be move it to the back of the oilpan.
Hey e*clipse,
The driver's side motor mounts are something I wonder about. I have seen only your picture but it's dark, so I can't really see where you bolted to the 1Z block. On my 1Z, I see a couple of usable threaded holes right below the oil filter housing/oil cooler, but only two. Is there a third? Has your set-up worked for you?

Does anyone else have a shot of how their driver's side motor mount went in/works? :confused:

On my solid axle '84, it's a really different arrangement than a truck with IFS (which is to say, every Toyota truck made after 1985). I am pretty sure the space between my truck's frame rails is a decent bit wider than later IFS models... Oh: I'm using 325i (E30) motor mounts.
 

LukeWilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
Toyota 4x4 TDI, 2004 Allroad TDI
There should be 3 threaded holes. I had to use a tap to clean mine out as they were filled with rust and crud.
 

imtryin

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Location
portland, OR
TDI
smashed up 98 jetta tdi soon to go into a toyota pickup
i will get some pictures for you next time i am down at the shop. i just got done with my motor mounts and they were a little bit of a pain, i ended up using the stock toyota mounts and built my own brackets. its very similar to what Luke Wilson did. I had three holes to use and they were all below the oil filter on the drivers side.
-Sam
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
There are 4 usable bolts on the passenger side and 3 on the driver's side of the motor. I would never trust two - it's too easy to get some force that exert a side load and bend them off. Remember the vibration issue - design for fatigue.

See my post here for the cad drawing. It's a PDF of the industrial engine, which appears to have the same bolt holes as the 1Z.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=35202&title=pdf-of-1z-2fahu-engine-cad-drawing&cat=3711

Note the bolt holes are not all at the same height. If you look closely are the pics, what I did was make a flat plate with the bolt holes, then weld on some spacers for the correct hole "z" positions. I then had a nice flat surface to weld the motor mount system to.
 
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e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Value of injector balancing

On a somewhat related note: I changed my nozzles to 0.216's a while back. Being, um, somewhat "budget restricted" :rolleyes:, I opted to install them myself and not balance them. - They should be close enough, right?? WRONG!:eek:

After driving a few thousand miles, the truck was idling very rough (which rattled everything with my stiff motor mounts) I guessed that the injection quantity was different from injector to injector, resulting in rough idle. Who knows: maybe it was bad under power too, but you couldn't feel it. The really bad thing is if the injectors were badly unbalanced under power, it could be ruining the engine. Remember the ECU only looks at average power, so if one cylinder is running hot and another cold, it won't know. Even if you put on an EGT gauge, you won't know.

I bit the bullet and sent the injectors to DBW. Sure enough, they were unbalanced - but it gets worse. The initial stroke pressure was very low for all the injectors, causing the injectors to overheat at idle. There was thermal damage on all injectors, and the spray pattern for all the injectors was bad.

DBW cleaned them and correctly set the initial and main stroke pop pressures. Fortunately the spray pattern was ok afterward, but I severely reduced the life of the nozzles by not getting them set up properly. High recommendations for DBW if you upgrade nozzles. :cool:

After re-installing the injectors, it idles much more smoothly. You certainly feel it, but at least things aren't bouncing around the cab...:p

If you are planning on upgrading your nozzles, definitely get them balanced. The old nozzles had different hole sizes, and this will result in different pop pressures. According to this article, you should ideally let them settle in for about 500miles before balancing them.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/TDI-nozzle-FAQ.htm

- E*clipse
 
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DieselFan1984

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2005 Mk4 Jetta TDI
I just finally got through all 34 pages and I AM IMPRESSED! I'm scrapping the 4Runner project I started with the Mopar 360 V8 and 727 tranny. Now, I'm sourcing a 'donor' car for all parts. I have a solid axle under the front with the stock 4.10 gears. It WAS a V6 5spd, after 2 toyota motors blow I gave up and that's where the V8 was coming in. I was seeing people doing Chevy V8s and since I'm a Dodge guy and wanting to be different I opted for the Dodge V8. I'm sitting on 37" tires and the 4.10s with V8 I was worried. Now I will have to go for I'm thinking at LEAST 4.88s to keep the TDI 'happy'.

I'm going to stick with a 2000-2003 ALH with 5spd, that way I can use the motor for the Toyota 4Runner and the 5spd for the Jetta swap and then part out the rest of the body and recoup some of the costs if not all of it depending on what I pay for a donor.

I certainly have SAVED this thread with all the references, I should have this done in alot less time (knocking on wood) if I learn from your mistakes...which can't was bad...just no need to repeat and 'waste' money in the beginning. This was a learning experience for you and only will teach the rest of us who are inspired.

Looking back, someone mentioned about the PITA it is using the search feature on here, I agree! I stopped and post a new thread to get advice or answers if I don't get anything on Google. I still have more in the way of planning....would you be willing to build a set of motor mounts for me?
 

LukeWilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
Toyota 4x4 TDI, 2004 Allroad TDI
I'm running 4.10s and 33's on my truck and 65 mph is about 3000rpm. 2700rpm seems to be the optimal rpm for crusing rpm, so you might try the 4.10's first. If you're running even a slightly modded TDI engine, i doubt it will have a problem pushing it.

The 3.0 V6 was only 177 ft-lbs, its not hard to hit 250+ ft-lbs with turbo, nozzles and a chip.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
running 3:59's in my truck and doing 2250 @ 75mph....I like this gear for highway cruising...needs a lower first and second gear for taking off...that's what the r151 will hopefully help out....I think the trucks would be happy with 3:73 gear and a tune
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Wow, it would be nice to have those gears available for the older trucks, my understanding is that they are not compatible with the diffs. Any idea if just the gears are swappable, not the entire diffs?

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/#taco_ifs
Ha!...if you get me an 8" 3:59 gearset for my E locker rear (sitting on the shop floor)...I'll give you my stock taco rear drum to drum!!...shipping may be a bit much though:rolleyes: ....I really don't want to give up my 3:59 gear but I could go up 3:73....
 

FredS

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Location
AZ
TDI
01 Golf GL 5spd, 00 NB 5spd, 94 Toyota-01ALH
Jim, 3.59's with what size tire?
 

DieselFan1984

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2005 Mk4 Jetta TDI
I haven't heard from e*clipse on how the truck is running. I sent ya a PM as well. How's your fuel mileage been in that truck? I'm curious....
 
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