Slow down shudder (AGAIN)

Pinknoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Bangor, NI, UK
TDI
03 Passat 130 TDI Sport 4 Motion
Hi,

I've posted many times for help with slow down shudder. (Thanks to eveyone who has helped soo far). So far I have not been able to fix my shudder by adjusting the IQ, even a setting of 9 didn't fix it. I did however notice that the engine would shudder when at idle RPM and the wheels were turning, in gear or out. As a test I jacked the front of the car up, started it in neutral and spun the front wheels by hand. Sure enough the engine started to judder, with the bonet up it was actually quite a violent shake like a misfire. I also discovered the problem also occured in gear as long as the revs were about idle. Obviously with the wheels off the ground the car was happy to sit in first or second at idle. I tried disconnecting the drive shafts and abs sensors to no avail. When I finally found the road speed sensor and disconnected it, the shudder went away. As a test I reconnected it with the engine running and in first gear (still jacked up) and within a second of plugging it in the shudder came back. I tried much newer road speed sensor from a scrappy but this didn't solve it. I've ordered a second hand ecu from ebay but it hasn't arrived yet.

Has anyone seen this problem before, or even guess at what might be wrong?

Thanks
Sam
 

Syndicate

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Location
FL
TDI
14 Q7 TDI Sline, 09 335d
Possibly a DMF thats on its way out; at least thats what it looks like IMO since you've tried everything else.

Is that the origional clutch in the car?
 

Birdman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 1999
Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
TDI
Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
How many miles on the car? Have you checked the injectors? they may be worn or dirty enough to cause the problem.
 

t0m541

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Location
Teesside, UK
TDI
Mk5 Golf 1.9 110 (originally)
This shudder does it feel like you are driving over some very small ripples in the road or that each tyre has a small flat spot that you can feel and that they are all out of sync, only at very slow speed..below 8mph and engine at idle when you are maybe stopping in traffic or at junction??

If so then I have it too, Audi A3 110 '99 plate AHF engine.

Tom
 

n0chex

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Location
uk
TDI
Bora 150 TDI
I have just bought a bora 1999 ( 110bhp ) AHF Engine and have the same symptons , i would be very interested in the outcome , i was led to believe it might have been my MAF even more so as that code came up on my mates diagnostics machine so i have ordered one from ebay £19:50 will try to keep you guys upto date on the outcome.
 

n0chex

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Location
uk
TDI
Bora 150 TDI
On TDI 110s, fault with the ECU (038 906 018 BM) needs upgrade (038 906 018 GQ)

Where is the ECU located on the car and how do i know what model /code mine is.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Mine does this as well. It's maddening that the engine should idle poorly when it's moving, and fine when it's stationary - why would some over-compensating German engineer think that an idling engine requires different fuel if it's moving?:rolleyes:

My understanding is that the "hammer mod" is appropriate for this symptom when adjusting the IQ does not fix things. I have not done this to mine yet, as I am waiting for the weather to warm.

A word of caution - adjusting the top of the injector housing can also cause the engine to run away, so be very precise in your (small) adjustments.
 

veedub1976

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Location
COLCHESTER,ESSEX,ENGLAND
TDI
GT TDI 110
mk4 gt tdi slow starting,and juddering at 8 mph

My mk4 GT TDI 110 ,2000, is suffering from slow turn over first thing in the morning,the battery is fine.Been told the starter may be on it's way out or the DMF may have chuked it's dust into the starter and clogged it up.
Also i've noticed when i slow down and am virtually stopped i can feel a juddering,so after reading this article i'm wondering if DMF is on it's last legs and i'm going to have a huge bill to pay out!
Only had the car a week.
Would the starter be slow if the DMF is on it's way out??or could it just be a lazy starter?:confused:
Help please??!!
 

gallaj01

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Location
Madison, WI
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon TDI GLS, 2001 Jetta TDI GLS, 2017 Golf AllTrack
I have had the same problem for about 6 months. I have a 2001 Jetta GLS TDI 90HP (ALH engine code) with 185K mi on it. The shudder occurs just before idle when slowing down, whether in gear or neutral, clutch in or out.
 

n0chex

Active member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Location
uk
TDI
Bora 150 TDI
I can confirm that after i fitted the new MAF the judder is still there .
I must say the car seams to pull alot better and smoother though.

If the IQ suppose to fix it is this done via VAG COM if so i do not have it or can not afford it at the moment as im skint.

I will sure follow this thread as it really does get on my nerves the judder and would love to fix it.
 

Pinknoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Bangor, NI, UK
TDI
03 Passat 130 TDI Sport 4 Motion
The IQ mod is only really for engines that have been set at 3 or below. The shudder occurs then but for a different reason. My 038 906 018 BM (the most widly known for the fault, but not the only one) ECU was set at 3.6 and I still got the shudder. I used the hammer mod to go all the way to 9 and still got shudder. Finally I found a scrappy with literally 100s of VAG ECUs sitting on a shelf. I tried several 038 906 018 GN from Octavia's and all had the same fault, I tried a 018 P from a passat which was much better than my own but ended up with a 018 DG from a 2000 Audi A6 which seemed to be almost perfect. During the 45 mile drive home I did find that it did it occasionally when either coasting for a long time or just moving two feet in traffic. BUT only very slightly and only occasionally. When I checked in VAG-COM the IQ was at 4, I increased it to 5 as I am running larger injectors and (touch wood, fingers crossed) its going well.

So for anyone trying to solve this problem I suggest that check your IQ, give it a quick try, but don't waste money like I and many others on injectors, maf sensors and even road speed sensors. BTW the road speed sensor is actually a good check to tell if your shudder is over fueling at idle or if its an ECU fault. If the road speed sensor is unplugged (top of gear box behind linkage) and the car is coasted at 10-15mhp, hill is good (or whatever scenario you find produces the shudder best) and there is no shudder, then its the ECU don't waste anymore time or money - ECU! (OBVIOUSLY DRIVING A CAR WITHOUT THE SPEEDO CONNECTED HAS SERIOUS LEGAL AND SAFETY ISSUES. TEST SHOULD ONLY BE CARRIED OUT UNDER CONTROLLED CONDITIONS BY A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL ON PRIVATE GROUND)

FIX: Buy Vag-com if you havn't already - the aftermarket leads are on eBay for less than £20, then buy a licence only from ross tech ($99) and use version 4.xx. Its all you'll need for most things on these older cars! Then just go to a scrappy and try ECUs until you get one. In my experience the last letters can be interchanged (my experience only NOT FACT). ECUs go on eBay for stupid Money, "Motors in motion" sell there second hand ones for £150+VAT +P+P. Neally all breakers here in Northern Ireland only wanted £50-70 +VAT. The one I found was happy to let me try them until I got one that worked.

I hope this helps anyone trying to solve this problem. My car (I say mine but its the wifes so you can imagine how much worse the problem was for me, listening to her AND trying to figure it out) has only been running a week now on the 018 DG Audi ECU, but so far so good. If the shudder is still there it is very slight and hardly noticable (havn't noticed yet), she could probably live with it if she did notice it.

BTW if that all seems too time consuming or compllex and you want a quick fix. Take it to VW, the new 018 GQ ECU will sting you £743+VAT +Fitting but it will solve the problem and only take a couple of hours.

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, ACCIDENTS OR LEGAL REPERCUSSIONS DUE TO DOING ANYTHING MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD!
 

mikrenwod

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Location
bakersville nc
TDI
'06 jetta tdi and '99 beetle tdi
slowdown shudder/stutter

well, i took my 99 beetle tdi to the vw dealer here in johnson city tenn last week after i replaced the timing belt, tensioner, rollers, water pump and serpentine belt. i was hopeing one of their vw certified master technictions would be able to fix my pre-timing belt slow down shudder problem. what they told me was this; they have no way to adjust idle speed, don't know anything about no fuel quantity, my injectors are working fine, and have i thought about a compression test? they also said it idles fine. (maybe they checked it while it wasn't moving). anyway, i took it to this same dealer about 2 weeks ago because of the slow down shudder and was told i needed an engine wiring harness, so it got one. result; no difference and 475.00 gone forever. these cars have a problem that as far as i can tell, has yet to be figured out by us or the techs at the dealers. i have heard of at least 10 suspected culprits for the problems and what seems to fix some doesn't fix the others. and some fixes turn out to be a temporary fix. i have replaced these items so far.
1.fuel filter
2.injector nozzles
3.mass air sensor
4.vehicle speed sensor
5.engine speed sensor
6.return fuel lines
7.N75
8.all vacuum hoses
9.air filter
10.checked for air in fuel lines from tank to pump.(very few tiny ones)
and i'm sure i left out something. but, i am thinking about an ecu next. or maybe a different brand of car. this is running into real money and a lot of time. if VWs own factory trained MASTER TECHNICIANS can't fix it, then who in the hell can? i know this, i have spent the last dollar at johnson citys vw service dept i will ever spend there. i kind of expected their tech to have more knowledge of tdi's than me. he didn't have as much. and that's not good for customers who are paying 80.00 per hour for this lack of knowledge. i found out nothing in my 2 visits there.
 

mikrenwod

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Location
bakersville nc
TDI
'06 jetta tdi and '99 beetle tdi
mine idles fine sometimes when stopped

mine idles fine sometimes when stopped but it NEVER idles fine while the wheels are turning. it doesn't always idle good when stopped either. this could be considered a safty hazard by vw since it makes it hard to see out the rear view mirror and can numb you hands from grasping the vibrating steering wheel. my brother in law was a bmw motorcycle tech at a dealership and said the germans don't ever make engineering or software mistakes. just ask one if you don't believe it.
 

mikrenwod

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Location
bakersville nc
TDI
'06 jetta tdi and '99 beetle tdi
not awe good

also, my wife's 06 jetta tdi puts out almost no soot ever and when pushed hard, my bug lays down a black fog that could cause a 600 car pile-up.
yo. wats up widdat? i regret to say that in this particular instance, i cannot with a clear conscience utter the words, and i quote; " it's awe good."
it is most certainlty not. and that my tdi driving brethren is a sad feeling. let us pray for a happy outcome to this undeniable problem of denial by vw. maybe they can lure a cummins engineer over to deuchland to help them find the problem before it becomes their problem. so far it seems to only be a problem for the people who drive the cars. i was waiting for the new tdi's to come out but i may wait for honda, suburu, and toyota to show their new offerings on the diesel car market and see if they have this problem resolved pre-production. i'll bet they all will. but for vw, the first step is admitting the problem exist and addressing it in a professional manner condusive to a healthy/happy customer base since customers are the usual sales targets. or has vw figured out a better way? i'm just thinking out loud.
 
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rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
Smoke is usualy either air restriction or IQ set to high (number too low). Having the iq too low also can cause slowdown shutter. Find someone with a Vag Com to assist you. With the knowledge of what the IQ is, you can then continue to change it, or look elsewhere.
 

PB_NB

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
TDI
1999 New Beetle
I had a shudder since I bought the car a year and a half ago. Mine is an ALH and there is some good advice on this problem on this site.

I tried adjusting IQ, with no luck. Then I read about the hammer mod and tried it. My sudder went away but I over did the mod and found that the power went down so I put it back and reapplied the mod only slightly and I do believe that it is smoother now. takes minutes to do but you will need a vagcom to check the QA values before and after.

Search for "Hammer Mod" on this forum and see if it will work for you. Unfortunately, I don't believe it will work for PD engines.
 
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Pinknoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Bangor, NI, UK
TDI
03 Passat 130 TDI Sport 4 Motion
Your correct, hammer mod doesn't apply to PD. Makes no odds anyway as the PD doesn't suffer from the same problem.

As I said, unless you IQ is stupid low, ie 2-3 then your just masking the real problem by adjusting it. I got my IQ all the way up to 9.4 and the problem slowly got worse.

Having said all that, i *THINK* the Audi ECU i installed is now getting worse which makes my think is it something in the car causing the failure. Something odd like the fuel pump electronics drawing to much current and slowly damaging the ECU.

I'm ording a new EPROM for my old 018 BM ECU. I'm going to get a friend to fit it and change all the components he can on the board ie, all the diodes etc that he can get the value of.
 

hayesgttdi

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Location
Barnstaple, N.Devon
TDI
Golf Mk4 110 AHF
ok then after reading through this very useful thread i have found out by disconnecting the speed sensor make the judder stop (also make the engine accelrate more violently when moving), does this mean i would need a new ecu??? and take it the 2nd ecu mod is not a good idea? no chance of gettin an ecu off a newer model AHF. Oh dear what a let down my tdi is turning out to be.

By the way this is my first post on here and cannot see a new member area... so HI!
 

Pinknoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2006
Location
Bangor, NI, UK
TDI
03 Passat 130 TDI Sport 4 Motion
I would imagine you are looking at a new ECU. Or atleast a long journey to find a good second hand one.
 

alphaseinor

TDI Innovator, Gone but Not Forgotten
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI 780,000 miles (totaled out), 01 Audi TT 225 Quattro 230,000 Miles (runs great!), 00 Cabreetle Beetle dash, ALH & MK4 harness Swap
On a VE pump the only thing the dealer will do for shutter is replace the pump. They don't have any special tools to move the QA housing, most of the technicians there won't know to adapt channel 1, and if anything else is strange they'll start throwing parts at it... that's just how dealers work.
 

hayesgttdi

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Location
Barnstaple, N.Devon
TDI
Golf Mk4 110 AHF
ok then guys, i got a good question for you, what kind of ecu will i be looking for. because im going to look at a car which has the same engine but its newer, so could i use that ecu then problem sorted? thanks in advance
 

zorgman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Location
sunderland uk
TDI
vw 1.9 tdi 110 afn
hi
i suffer this as well but intresting note here. 110afn sharan
no stutter great tickover then i put bigger injectors in (.216) whilst doing injectors i knocked the big plug and lost my speedo so ran around for a week feeling chuffed about the imense power increase i had then decided to fix speedo remade the supply wire and speedo working and instantly noticed that the engine has a stutter when dropping down to tickover tho engine revs still the same so im thinking here ive increased the fuel going into engine and its there swopped back to normal nozzles and its gone swopped back to bigger and its back so its all down to the iq i reckon.
im redoing my dynamic timing once i get a few miles on clock just to see if that makes any difference
 

TDICult

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Location
Glasgow Scotland
TDI
Audi A4 1.9 TDI (AFN)
I changed my injector type for SVO use and developed a mild version of this shudder problem and that was running on normal diesel. It occurs on slowdown approaching traffic lights. It comes and goes. To me its an injector issue as I never had the fault in 130k miles until I changed injectors.

Interestingly I did the injector change in two stages. Cylinder No.1 and No.2 first. I then had to drive 500 miles. The car ran excellent except when I approached traffic lights and the shudder appeared. There must have been an imbalance as the pop pressure of the new injectors was higher than the old ones.
 

waqasanwar

New member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Location
slough
TDI
A3 2.0tdi
hi

I have the same issue with my 07 audi a3, i took it to the dealer and they said this is how the cars are manufactured. will this affect the long term running of the car as it is still under warranty and if it is a long term issue then i wont let this rest!

thanks
 

Lee_Taylor

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
Kent, England
TDI
Audi A3 1.4 COD
i took it to the dealer
That's your first mistake. Though it is under warranty so I don't blame you.

they said this is how the cars are manufactured
Rubbish.

Hopefully it isn't anything major but it shouldn't be happening. Read up on DMF failure as well just in case. I would certainly keep an eye on this. Do you have a manual transmission or the dsg?
 

jjcsnlynn

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Location
Felton, DE
TDI
02 & 03 Jetta TDI,99 Beetle TDI, 04 Chevy Duramax 2500HD 4x4
What does DMF stand for? I was hearing that this shudder is caused by bad IPs? Any truth to that?
 
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