Why GM is betting on the Diesel

n1das

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2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner

kiwibru

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Distant island in WA. state
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Golf 2-door, 2k Silver. Red RTDI now gone but not forgotten!
Well, darn. Put that 1.6L diesel in a slightly down-sized Canyon pick up w/ 4WD and it would be an even better than the current Canyon with 2.5L diesel! Kind of a reset to the Isuzu Pup days only more high-tech than ever! The interior looks so much like the Canyon it is scary.
 
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truman

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May 18, 2000
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columbia,MO,usa
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'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
Terrain looks really nice
More interesting than 18 Tiguan with no diesel
I suspect Buick Regal wagon may also sport the same engine
 

waltzconmigo

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chicagoland
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none
Terrain looks really nice
More interesting than 18 Tiguan with no diesel
I suspect Buick Regal wagon may also sport the same engine
Buick wagon ('81) was my first vehicle, mom worked in food distribution and left some fish in the back a weekend (family emergency), needless to say she never used it again. Lots of time spent with a wet-vac and eventually she smelled "as good as" not new but not poisoned. That new model is certainly better looking.
 

narongc73

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VA/OH
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Chevy/GM/Most American cars quality is awful. Adding a diesel engine isn't going to make it any better. You guys be the guinea pigs.
 

GoFaster

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Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
Chevy/GM/Most American cars quality is awful. Adding a diesel engine isn't going to make it any better. You guys be the guinea pigs.
What's your basis for that statement?

This isn't the 1970s any more, and VW is hardly the bellwether of supreme reliability ratings if you choose to pay attention to JD Power or Consumer Reports.

I now have two vehicles from the supposedly-horrible FiatChrysler in the driveway, and know what ... they've both been fine. No turbo, no direct-injection, no DPF, no SCR, no MAF (historical VW problem area), one of them has no timing belt and the other one isn't due until 240k km, Uconnect and Blue&Me both work well (no RNS510 horror stories here), no searching out special engine oil.
 

kiwibru

Veteran Member
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Distant island in WA. state
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Golf 2-door, 2k Silver. Red RTDI now gone but not forgotten!
I would have to agree with GoFaster. I have been crawling all over, inside and out of the GMC Canyon and I have to say they have come a long way. Most interesting is the use of metric fasteners, bolts, etc. To me this speaks of the "internationalization" of the modern cars and trucks. The quality is quite a lot better than I suspected too. A lot has changed since I bought my first TDI in 2000. I think the changes are universal too. No better way to compete in the market than by upping the quality!
 

ducatiz

Well-known member
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DC
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Passat SEL 2012
Now that VW/Audi are quitting the diesel market for the US, you can expect the other makers to follow suit. The only reason GM tried diesel was because of the high mpg and popularity of the TDIs. Now that no one is driving that, it's done.

Sad really. I love mine. But that's pretty much it for diesel in passenger cars in the US. 4-5 years maybe of GM and MB selling them.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...porty+Cars, Station+Wagons&srchtyp=newDslCars
 
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Steve-o

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2003 Jetta Wagon
I once read a comment from an editor high up in some national newspaper; something on the order of the U.S. having forgiven the Japanese for Pearl Harbor and Germany for Hilter but never having forgiven Ford for that Pinto or GM for that Vega we bought back in the 70s.

The quality of all cars has improved steadily over the years, American cars included. Even the worst of them is not "bad" and is better than the best cars managed even 15-20 years ago. We now expect even the cheapest "penalty-box" economy car to last past 200,000 miles. Saying "American cars are crap" is working with old information.

As to whether other companies will bring in diesels, I think a lot depends on 1) the immediate future of EPA regulations [a rollback would help a lot though it still leaves out the states using CARB regulations]; and 2) the take rate on smaller cars (now that gasoline is historically cheap; already FCA and Ford have announced that they're re-thinking how they make and sell smaller cars).

I think every manufacturer has learned from VW, BMW, and Daimler that making diesels meet current emissions regs is not simple. Subaru and Mazda said for years they were bringing in diesels; they haven't. IIRC Chevy's diesel Cruze lasted a year or two before they suspended production for a while because they weren't selling enough of them.

I suspect we're not going to see any new passenger-car diesels unless they're the fastest cheapest way to meet fleet regulations. And I don't anticipate that being the case anytime soon.
 

Pat Dolan

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Apr 19, 2002
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Martensville, SK
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2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
I have been driving VW diesels since 1976. Our current MkIV may well be our last VW ever (kids driving B6 gasser wagon and B7 TDI). Just spent last summer's spare time dealing with the horrendous screw-up of the TSI (timing chain skipped, crashed valves). No diesel, no manual, no AWD but most of all NO B7 Variant with actual cargo space means I am pretty much done with VW. Oh...and no T5 diesel either.

If GM wants to step in to fill that void, I will probably go there. My farm chore truck is an ancient ('97) 6.5TD, and it has been almost zero anything except for service and the odd broken trim piece, door handle and oil cooler line for 10 years. HORRIBLE fuel mileage, but tolerates my alternative fuels very well. We have a fleet of GM pickups at one place I work, and while not perfect, they are able to do what no VW could ever do any more - stay on the road at minimal cost. I have a fleet of Ram pickups and 4500/5500s in the US, and similar to the GMs up here, not perfect, but in no way full of the massive compromises of truly incompetent engineering that VW has come to represent with every new design of engine or vehicle.

In case you think I am Yankee biased: I have been a VW mechanic and VW dealer decades back, and owned, played with, restored and raced pretty much nothing but VWs for the last 50 years. It takes a lot for VW to have pissed me off enough to finally walk away, but by withdrawing the last bit of desirable product offering (diesels) they have finally done it.
 
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turbobrick240

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maine
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The new Cruze hatchback is essentially a rebadged Opel Astra. A car that has won many accolades in Europe. But I have no issues with american engineering. I have a jeep cherokee with over 300k that has been awesome.
 

GoFaster

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Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Take note: Chevrolet has a better rating than Honda, both are better than average, and VW is worse than average but for all practical purposes tied with Fiat (bad reputation - IMO undeserved) and Scion (which equals Toyota - good reputation).

But ... The difference is between that of having two problems per car in the first three years (worst on chart) and one problem per car in the first three years (best on chart). In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

And the biggest problem area ... Infotainment! "My cell phone wouldn't pair up." "The navigation system wouldn't respond to my voice."
 

nwdiver

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Sep 27, 2015
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Texas
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2003 Jetta TDI (sold); 2012 Tesla Model S
A ~4000lb SUV with ~140HP? Sounds like fun ;)... so long as you're always driving downhill....
 

Steve-o

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2003 Jetta Wagon
But ... The difference is between that of having two problems per car in the first three years (worst on chart) and one problem per car in the first three years (best on chart). In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

And the biggest problem area ... Infotainment! "My cell phone wouldn't pair up." "The navigation system wouldn't respond to my voice."
This same (sound) advice applies to Consumer Reports, as well, which dings infotainment pain as much as it dings blown head gaskets and bubbly paint. Cars just are so much better built than they used to be.
 

CT_Gman

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Take note: Chevrolet has a better rating than Honda, both are better than average, and VW is worse than average but for all practical purposes tied with Fiat (bad reputation - IMO undeserved) and Scion (which equals Toyota - good reputation).

But ... The difference is between that of having two problems per car in the first three years (worst on chart) and one problem per car in the first three years (best on chart). In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

And the biggest problem area ... Infotainment! "My cell phone wouldn't pair up." "The navigation system wouldn't respond to my voice."
Statistics never lie, but statisticians do... Your point is well stated! Nothing is ever well defined by a single metric.
 

kjclow

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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'm happy that GM is bringing out a diesel CUV. Something that VW should have done in 2009 with the Tigaun. I have an 07 Canyon and my only issue is that my rear bulbs keep burning out. Sure it's a little under powered with the 4cyl but the manual tranny makes up for some of that. Seats could be nicer but it's a base truck with crank windows. I got what I paid for.
 

Steve-o

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Didn't the original differentiator between CUV and SUV rest on whether it was unibody (CUV) or body-on-frame (SUV)? I'm not sure people care about that much anymore; now it seems to be size (CUV for many = "Cute Utility Vehicle")
 

PlaneCrazy

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Province of Quebec, Canada
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Gone...
And the biggest problem area ... Infotainment! "My cell phone wouldn't pair up." "The navigation system wouldn't respond to my voice."
I just finished posting about the same thing on the Golf VII sportwagen forum on Vortex, someone was asking about Alltrack reliability which CR predicts will be worse than average.

Yeah well they said that about my '16 Golf TSI as well and it has been as darned near perfect as any of the best of my previous cars. Apple CarPlay was finicky at the start but the TSB software update fixed that. Otherwise it has been flawless.

Bad reliability to me means being stranded or not being able to get to work in the morning. Or like my Mk VI TDI, trying to kill me by losing all power in the middle of overtaking (intercooler condensation). Not a fiddly radio.

I think CR needs to seriously review how it rates reliability. As it stands their statistics are, well, unreliable. For instance the "much worse than average" Golf has one of the highest owner-satisfaction scores out there...
 

kjclow

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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Didn't the original differentiator between CUV and SUV rest on whether it was unibody (CUV) or body-on-frame (SUV)? I'm not sure people care about that much anymore; now it seems to be size (CUV for many = "Cute Utility Vehicle")
You might be right on that one. I saw a first or second model year Bronco II over the weekend. I don't remember that be sold as a CUV, but man does it look small today.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
There nothing sporty in Sport Utility Vehicle about a body-on-frame design. Utility vehicle fits perfectly but doesn't sound as flattering and "Uv" doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
There aren't a lot of body-on-frame SUVs left. GM and Ford pickup based ones, Toyota pickup based ones...I think that's about it. Used to be an SUV with unibody construction was called a crossover, but that name has faded as almost all SUVs are unibody. So the SUV/CUV distinction has emerged.
 

john.jackson9213

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Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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I just finished posting about the same thing on the Golf VII sportwagen forum on Vortex, someone was asking about Alltrack reliability which CR predicts will be worse than average.

Yeah well they said that about my '16 Golf TSI as well and it has been as darned near perfect as any of the best of my previous cars. Apple CarPlay was finicky at the start but the TSB software update fixed that. Otherwise it has been flawless.

Bad reliability to me means being stranded or not being able to get to work in the morning. Or like my Mk VI TDI, trying to kill me by losing all power in the middle of overtaking (intercooler condensation). Not a fiddly radio.

I think CR needs to seriously review how it rates reliability. As it stands their statistics are, well, unreliable. For instance the "much worse than average" Golf has one of the highest owner-satisfaction scores out there...
"Reliability" and "owner-satisfaction" are two different things that have some overlap. You may love how the car looks on your driveway and how it goes around the corners. How great the seats are on a long trip. Those are satisfaction items. How many burned out lights, how many times the car goes back to get something fixed - those are reliability issues.
 
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