Wrecked my car, part 2

DanB36

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The story as of my previous thread: My Dieselgatemobile (2013 JSW DSG, 48k miles) got rear-ended on the freeway on 10/6. The engine starts and runs, and the car drives under its own power, but it's leaking coolant pretty badly so it clearly isn't roadworthy. I'd upload pics, but pics.tdiclub.com is erroring out when I try.

Intent, as stated in the previous thread, was (and is) to take the insurance money, not get the car repaired, and go ahead with the buyback. But since there wasn't any estimate done, no further information from the insurance.

They've now decided to total the car. They're offering $16.5k including tax and title, or about $12.5k if I keep the car. Salvage value is just over $3k, and the rest is the allowance for tax and title.

I spoke with the insurance rep earlier this morning and explained what I intend to do--not commit one way or the other on the insurance, get the car back, and take it to the buyback. If there's an intractable problem with that (i.e., if I and most of the rest of us have misunderstood the settlement documents' requirement of "operable" condition), I leave myself with the option of letting the insurance take it and receiving the full payout. The rep understood and said there was no problem with doing that. The only (and slight) issue is that I'd be responsible for any towing or other transportation costs from this point forward.

The car is financed through USAA. If I took the payment now and kept the car, the payment would go toward the loan, but they wouldn't otherwise have any heartburn with my doing that.

Next step is to take it in and see what they say. Hopefully that will get up and running quickly.
 

VeeDubTDI

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You need to verify if branding the car with a salvage title will exclude you from the settlement at this time. I know there was a three month window when that was the case, for sure, but I am not sure right now. You might want to call one of the Dieselgate class lawyers and run your situation by them before making a commitment one way or the other.
 

HBarlow

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What salvage title? I don't think there will be a salvage title.

The owner will retain ownership and possession of the car and sell it back to VW. The insurance company will pay for a total loss less salvage value.
 

DanB36

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You need to verify if branding the car with a salvage title will exclude you from the settlement at this time.
As @HBarlow says, I don't expect there will be any change to the title at all. But even if there were, as far as the settlement docs go (or at least as they were before today's hearing), it wouldn't affect things. Branded titles are excluded only if (1) the title was branded on or before 9/15/15, and (2) the car was sold by a junkyard or salvage yard after 9/15/15. If either of those conditions is not true, the exclusion doesn't apply.

Now, it's certainly possible that the final approval will carry some changes, but I'd be surprised if this provision changes at all.
 

chargum

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What salvage title? I don't think there will be a salvage title.

The owner will retain ownership and possession of the car and sell it back to VW. The insurance company will pay for a total loss less salvage value.
When an insurance company "totals" a car, a salvage title is issued.

No way around that.
 

jims2321

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Wasn't there a provision in the CAS settlement for cars that are totaled? Basically you get the insurance money and the restitution part?
 

fucanay

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Wasn't there a provision in the CAS settlement for cars that are totaled? Basically you get the insurance money and the restitution part?
I believe that is the case for cars that have an accident that occurs after Sept 16th 2016 and the result is that the car is totaled. That said, it really is going to depend on what the settlement payout was to be whether it'll work out ok for DanB36.

At this point I'd bring that thing home and stick it in the driveway and try to do the buyback if that'll pay out more money, otherwise the restitution payment should at least be locked in and you can collect from the insurance company as well. That is what I had planned to do for our 2014 JSW that had an accident in June, but we ended up fighting with the insurance company long enough to get them to just fix the car. I should be getting it back at the end of next week and it will stay parked until the buyback happens.
 

DanB36

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Wasn't there a provision in the CAS settlement for cars that are totaled? Basically you get the insurance money and the restitution part?
That's the case for cars that are totaled and turned over to the insurance company. Nothing directly addresses the case of cars that are "totaled" but still "operable" and are retained by the owner.

My plan at this point, though, is to do as @fucanay suggested--have the car towed home, and then have it towed to the dealer on buyback day. Drive it onto the lot or otherwise as necessary to demonstrate that it will drive under its own power. If that falls through, and the appeals process doesn't resolve it favorably, I can still sell it to the insurance company and take the restitution--and in that case I'll probably be more inclined to argue the value with the insurance. But not making any final decision on the insurance until I see the result of the buyback.
 

Shawn MacAnanny

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I just had my truck totalled through usaa. Before they would issue payment I had to take my title to dmv have it converted to a salvage certificate then scanned and emailed them a copy. I had money my account the next day from it. Dmv keeps your title and issues you a salvage certificate in place.
 

HBarlow

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Some of you are determined to believe that you are obligated to do what an insurance adjuster tells you must be done. If you are willing to roll over and obey the insurance company will demand surrender of the title and it will be converted to a salvage title.

It doesn't have be done that way.
 

jims2321

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Some of you are determined to believe that you are obligated to do what an insurance adjuster tells you must be done. If you are willing to roll over and obey the insurance company will demand surrender of the title and it will be converted to a salvage title.

It doesn't have be done that way.
It depends upon the state laws. Florida as I recall, requires the title to be converted if the car is totalled to either junk or salvage, if the insurance companies notes the vehicle as totalled and pays any thing on the claim. That said since Dan is in GA, he can check with the Dept of Revenue and see what his options are. Hope he doesn't live in an HOA. Our HOA has a strict rule on cars that are not working, its a $25/day fine.
 

DanB36

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No HOA, I'm (relatively) out in the country. Again, my plan is to sell the car to VW before taking anything from the insurance. When I mentioned that plan to the adjuster this morning, she said it made perfect sense and wouldn't be a problem.
 

HBarlow

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It depends upon the state laws. Florida as I recall, requires the title to be converted if the car is totalled to either junk or salvage, if the insurance companies notes the vehicle as totalled and pays any thing on the claim. That said since Dan is in GA, he can check with the Dept of Revenue and see what his options are. Hope he doesn't live in an HOA. Our HOA has a strict rule on cars that are not working, its a $25/day fine.
Not necessarily. What Dan is telling us and what I have personally done a few years ago (and explained in this forum) is to halt the insurance settlement process prior to the insurance company actually purchasing the car from the insured.

The underlying issue here that many are not grasping is the insured owns the car. The car is damaged. The estimated cost to completely repair the car to it's pre-crash condition exceeds 75% of book value. Insurance companies know from experience that if they pay for repairs unseen problems are likely to be discovered after the car is repaired. Repairing additional damage will drive the total cost up beyond the price of replacing the car. Some cars are so badly damaged that repair is simply not possible.

That's not a prudent plan so insurance companies declare the car a total loss, take possession of the car and the title and pay their insured the book value of the car. They then sell the crashed car at regional salvage auctions. The cars receive a salvage title and buyers purchase and repair many of the cars and resell them to end users.

In this case Dan has negotiated with his insurer to pay him approximately 75% of book value of the car and allow him to retain ownership and possession.

Insurance companies provide a service to car owners. They don't have the authority to determine what you can do with your car. They must follow insurance regulations set by individual states but they are obligated to satisfy us the consumer. We don't work for the insurance company.
 

speedrye

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It depends upon the state laws. Florida as I recall, requires the title to be converted if the car is totalled to either junk or salvage, if the insurance companies notes the vehicle as totalled and pays any thing on the claim. That said since Dan is in GA, he can check with the Dept of Revenue and see what his options are. Hope he doesn't live in an HOA. Our HOA has a strict rule on cars that are not working, its a $25/day fine.
Haha, pretty sure his HOA would've fined him months ago for the VW used car lot in his front yard. :D
 

Rico567

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<snip> Hope he doesn't live in an HOA. Our HOA has a strict rule on cars that are not working, its a $25/day fine.
One can drive through any small town in rural areas out here, none of which are incorporated and so cannot pass local ordinances, and see several houses with several -up to a half-dozen- cars that are not being operated sitting in the drives or up in the yard. HOAs are not uniformly evil, sometimes there are good reasons for their rules.
 

HBarlow

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HOA? What's that. Is that one of those rude, crude, ugly words used to describe women walking the streets in some large cities?
 

DanB36

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In this case Dan has negotiated with his insurer to pay him approximately 75% of book value of the car and allow him to retain ownership and possession.
Pretty close, though there really hasn't been any negotiation involved so far--I just asked them what the payout would be if I were to keep the car. There are a couple of finer points, though.

First, many states have their own rules/regulations/laws regarding when a car must be totaled. There's been a link to an article posted here a couple of times, with the misleading indication that it has something to do with what the insurance will pay you for a total, but that really addresses the rules for when an insurer must or may total a car. So, rather than simply being a matter of the insurance company's business judgment that it isn't worth it to repair a car when the estimate exceeds 75% (or whatever) of book value, they might actually be required to total the car in that case*.

Second, the requirement to brand a title is also going to vary from state to state.

* I'm using "total" here to mean "declare a total loss." In the most common case, that means they take the car and the title, and pay the book value, but "totaling" can also include paying book minus salvage and the owner keeping the car
 

Shawn MacAnanny

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* I'm using "total" here to mean "declare a total loss." In the most common case, that means they take the car and the title, and pay the book value, but "totaling" can also include paying book minus salvage and the owner keeping the car
Last month through USAA i opted to retain my truck minus salvage value and i was required to obtain a salvage certificate before payment. I think when its declared a total loss, atleast in DE, its required for safety reasons becuase the vehicle must go back through an extensive inspection before being issued a reconstructed title.
 

saggii

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Haven't read through every post in this thread but my .02 will be to delay until after the settlement hearing just in case since as you know preminary approval is not the final approval. I doubt anything changes but still.
Also, did you negotiate the payout with the insurance company yet? My argument would be that the value of the car is way more than that on paper and I would even send them the screenshot of the buyback value you are expecting. If they matches that amount then that would be awesome.

The other thing is that insurance companies also pay for damages to personal property in the car, for instance, they will pay for your damaged sunglasses ($100-200 is not much in grand scheme of things but still), broken phone/laptop/ipad, car seat (for kids, they have to pay for replacements in any case after the accident), etc.

On another topic and not to thread crap, would the final settlement agreement will shield VW for any further damages (well atleast for 2.0 engines and not considering criminal charges)? 12-13 states have seperately sued VW for damages what would happen to those lawsuits? Would they go away? I'm asking because I think I read somewhere that you are a lawyer. Thanks in advance.
 

251

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When an insurance company "totals" a car, a salvage title is issued.
No way around that.
I beg to differ. In December 2015 my previous TDI was totaled by my insurance company (thanks to a deer that ran out in front of me) and I elected to buy it back from them. Kept the original title (a photo or scan of it was all my insurance company needed) and resold it to a friend who fixed it / now drives it daily. Friend had zero issues with my original clean title when he went to the BMV to get new title and register car in his name.

I admit the difference here may be because I bought it back and it never went to a salvage yard so a salvage title was not issued in this case.
 

Shawn MacAnanny

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I beg to differ. In December 2015 my previous TDI was totaled by my insurance company (thanks to a deer that ran out in front of me) and I elected to buy it back from them. Kept the original title (a photo or scan of it was all my insurance company needed) and resold it to a friend who fixed it / now drives it daily. Friend had zero issues with my original clean title when he went to the BMV to get new title and register car in his name.
I admit the difference here may be because I bought it back and it never went to a salvage yard so a salvage title was not issued in this case.
I was t-boned by a dump truck that didn't stop, personally paid to have my truck towed directly to my house, it sat there the entire time never once towed to a lot or taken to a shop and my title still had to be salvaged to be paid.
 

DanB36

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Haven't read through every post in this thread
You probably should have; there were only 20 when you posted, and most of what you mention was already addressed.

The other thing is that insurance companies also pay for damages to personal property in the car,
Good point, and thanks for the suggestion. In this case, there wasn't really any damaged property in the car, other than the car itself. I'd added a hitch and fog lights, though; it might be worth asking about covering them in one way or another.

On another topic and not to thread crap, would the final settlement agreement will shield VW for any further damages (well atleast for 2.0 engines and not considering criminal charges)? 12-13 states have seperately sued VW for damages what would happen to those lawsuits? Would they go away? I'm asking because I think I read somewhere that you are a lawyer. Thanks in advance.
I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and I'm not giving legal advice. With that said, I wouldn't think this settlement would shield VW from civil or criminal action from anyone who wasn't a party to it. Owners are a party to the case (it's a class action) unless they opt out of the class, but other states (other than CA) are probably free to pursue actions under their own relevant laws. The settlement would still be relevant to suits brought under consumer protection laws, though ("we already have a program in place to more than make the customers whole"). Further discussion of this issue probably belongs in its own thread, though.
 

bizzle

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I beg to differ. In December 2015 my previous TDI was totaled by my insurance company (thanks to a deer that ran out in front of me) and I elected to buy it back from them. Kept the original title (a photo or scan of it was all my insurance company needed) and resold it to a friend who fixed it / now drives it daily. Friend had zero issues with my original clean title when he went to the BMV to get new title and register car in his name.
I admit the difference here may be because I bought it back and it never went to a salvage yard so a salvage title was not issued in this case.
In Indiana you were supposed to apply for a salvage title within 45 days of the loss. If you sold it to your friend within that window, he was supposed to apply for the salvage title. In other states, the insurance company reports it directly to the DMV. That seems to be the pattern in these "wrecked" threads: some people have had to deal directly with their insurance companies and others are supposed to deal directly with their government agencies but either refuse or don't know they were supposed to. I haven't seen any state allowing what gets argued from that lack of following the regulations though: that you can both simultaneously claim a total loss and not report it.
 

HBarlow

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In Indiana you were supposed to apply for a salvage title within 45 days of the loss. If you sold it to your friend within that window, he was supposed to apply for the salvage title. In other states, the insurance company reports it directly to the DMV. That seems to be the pattern in these "wrecked" threads: some people have had to deal directly with their insurance companies and others are supposed to deal directly with their government agencies but either refuse or don't know they were supposed to. I haven't seen any state allowing what gets argued from that lack of following the regulations though: that you can both simultaneously claim a total loss and not report it.
There are many thing you haven't seen or don't understand but that doesn't prevent you from offering "expert" opinion on them.
 

DanB36

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Never was able to upload the pics from work, but finally got around to doing it at home. Here's the car:



...and here's its replacement:


Insurance is still in limbo while I wait for the buyback to be resolved--documents were accepted on October 20, nothing since.
 

EricVA

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Sorry to hear about this.

How does the situation look if you were to settle the insurance claim and just get the "restitution" from VW? Does the sum of those two figures get you in the ballpark of the VW buyback? I'm not sure on the implications of getting restitution in a case like this, but thought it might be worth exploring.
 

dpospres

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You say the car got rear ended. I assume that pushed you into the car in front of you. Is the insurance from the person behind you paying for the damage? If so, isn't it their responsibility to "make you whole"? You have proof that VW is willing to give you $XXX for the car, so shouldn't they be responsible for that amount?
 

mydecember1985

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Hope things are going well. How did you find an A3 TDI with all the dieselgate stuff going on??
 
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