EA288 confirmed across the board by year end

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
New VW 2.0-Liter EA288 Four-Cylinder TDI for the new Jetta, Golf and Passat

Quote from caranddriver.com:
"The EA288 diesel will be the TDI powerplant in the next-generation Golf, Jetta, and Passat. The inline configuration, iron block and aluminum head, and DOHC configuration will carry over, but horsepower from the 2.0-liter surges to from 140 to 190, while torque is up from 236 lb-ft to 280 lb-ft. Those two figures represent increases of 36 and 19 percent, respectively. Also, as with the EA211 gas engines, a belt that never requires replacement drives the camshafts."

LINK: http://blog.caranddriver.com/detailed-vw’s-new-2-0-liter-ea288-four-cylinder-tdi-diesel/

 

Dooglas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
'06 Jetta
And what happens to mpg when the hp "surges" from 140 to 190? This is a familiar theme - at least in the American market. Continue to super-size until you forget the point of a particular vehicle design. Sounds like it is about time to get one of those small 3 cylinder TDIs ready to replace the four in many of it's applications.
 

diesel4ever

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Location
Ontario
TDI
Golf 2000, black
That would be my biggest complaint. Lack of options when it comes to diesel engine choice. It's nice to be able to 'supper-size it', but what if I don't want that. VW has this mentality that 'we know what you want/need' and be happy with it. It's interesting that they have nice choice of options for Europe but not here.
 

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
What is that point US "supper-size it"??? Better HP/Torque witch keeping the best MPG is very good news. Today, with new cars, 190HP, it is not an exaggeration.

The problem in America are anti-pollution standards for diesel engines (NOx). The engine available in Europe are not allowed in America because they are too polluting. Besides, you have an engine to 170HP on the Passat and Scirocco? More on other SUV models. Is it too much HP for you Europeans?

Moreover, this maybe will possibly join the new TDI engine with the Audi Quattro system, which does not happen in North America. Maybe inside the new A4 or A3? Also, as you know, the TDI in the Passat is a fair bit on weight of the vehicle. Thus, it is no longer the case.

Not forget the many innovation of this new engine.
- The EA288 has its own head cooling circuit with controlled valves (cold engine for better MPG);
- Urea NOx reduction device (for emissions-45-percent reduction);
- Counter-rotating balance shafts (Mooth out the power delivery)
- Variable valve timing (better MPG)

For myself, I am looking forward to try it.

Enjoy,

FourCircle
 
Last edited:

RomanL

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Location
Denver, CO
TDI
'10 GOLF TDI
hmmm if this is put into Quattro A4 or Passat or Jetta Wagons, thats could be my next vehicle when time comes to get a new one. but that wont be for a while.
and im sure this is just another good way to eliminate HPFH with a full system redesign.
 

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
hmmm if this is put into Quattro A4 or Passat or Jetta Wagons, thats could be my next vehicle
I am the author of this rumor. I did not read anywhere. By cons, with 190HP, anything is possible. The Quattro system responded well with the 1.8T Gas 180HP of old A4. So why not. Moreover, Audi America announced a year ago that all new generation of Audi will now be offered with a diesel engine in the future.

Why not.

FourCircle
 
Last edited:

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
Last edited:

Dooglas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
'06 Jetta
Better HP/Torque witch (while) keeping the best MPG is very good news.
Sure, it would be good news but somewhat contradicts the laws of physics (if engineers could do that why not increase hp/torque while cutting fuel consumption in half ;)). The shift from the 100hp PD to the 140hp CR did not come with no change in fuel consumption either. Somehow, fuel economy is being lost in this and that is the whole point of small diesels (at least to me).
 

eb2143

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
None
Sure, it would be good news but somewhat contradicts the laws of physics (if engineers could do that why not increase hp/torque while cutting fuel consumption in half ;)). The shift from the 100hp PD to the 140hp CR did not come with no change in fuel consumption either. Somehow, fuel economy is being lost in this and that is the whole point of small diesels (at least to me).
I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of change that there won't a FE drop with this new engine (if, of course, you can bear to keep your right foot out of it); there may actually be a nice bump with the new chassis and urea.

If you think this is breaking the laws of physics, consider that efficiency often goes up following tuning of the ALH and PD engines. The change from PD to CR won't be the same as from CR to CR with the better urea system and aforementioned variable valve timing. And during a period when higher fleet mpg's are going to be demanded of manufacturers in the US, I know of almost no car maker rolling out a new engine with less FE.

I also think VW/AUDI did this to give them more flexibility with what to stuff it into. 280 lb/ft will do very nicely in an A4 Quattro.

I agree with you however, this engine's output is overkill for the average Joe commuting in the Jetta/Golf. Bring on a smaller displacement engine tuned for maximum FE!
 
Last edited:

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
Everything is in balance. FE and driving pleasure. European vehicle enthusiasts love its road holding. I think at 190HP and 280 lb-ft seem the perfect balance. FE and driving pleasure.

Otherwise, there are other choices, like the Prius and Chevy Volt if driving pleasure is not important to you.

Enjoy, FourCircle
 
Last edited:

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
I would much rather have a lifetime belt than a lifetime chain setup.
It would seem like this engine opens the door for a smaller version.
 

NSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Location
Nova Scotia
TDI
15 Passat
The new Mazda 3 gas is rated for similar fuel economy to the TDI, 58MPG highway (Imperial gallons). Any new engines will have to improve FE to be competitive. Mazda are also bringing a diesel, if their gas car gets 58MPG, what will the diesel do?

The average fuel economy on both my VW's went up when I chipped them, about 1.0 MPG in both the 1.9TDI and the 1.8T. The chip gave 25% higher HP and torque on both. So why not get better fuel economy with more HP and torque? Corvette's have improved MPG while increasing the power with every increase in HP, you might have to keep your foot out of it to get the bigger numbers though.;)

Don
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
The chips also disabled some emissions controls, which improved efficiency.

Also, VW will make 140 hp versions of this engine, it's just that the top of the line will be 190 hp. Right now, it's 180 hp, in the T5 Transporter 2.0 BiTDI.

We'll probably never see the 190 hp version. We probably won't even see a 170 hp version.
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
Just put one in a US model Tiguan, will ya VW??? :p
 

chittychittybangbang

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Location
TX
TDI
none
And what happens to mpg when the hp "surges" from 140 to 190? This is a familiar theme - at least in the American market. Continue to super-size until you forget the point of a particular vehicle design. Sounds like it is about time to get one of those small 3 cylinder TDIs ready to replace the four in many of it's applications.
I'm 90% sure the 140 hp engine is NOT going to be upgraded to 190. I read the same press release car and driver sees and the writer read it wrong. According to the release, gains will be "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26%. 140-190 is 36%.

The max power of 190 will probably be for the 170hp GTD engine, not the 140 hp engine currently sold in the US. Not saying it's not coming to the US, just saying the 140 hp engine will probably end up "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26% so I'm guessing 150-155 hp.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Note that there's 105 and 110 kW power levels shown for EU4 and EU6 2.0 TDIs. (Not sure which one goes with which engine, though.)

That maps to 141 and 150 hp.
 

dan30thz28

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Location
Cream Ridge, NJ
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed Manual 2013 VW Sportwagen TDI 6-Speed Manual
So the new 190 HP motor won't be available in the US because of emissions?
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Most likely no - it only meets EU5, and EU6 isn't even as strict as the US Tier 2 Bin 5 standards.
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
I would much rather have a lifetime belt than a lifetime chain setup.
It would seem like this engine opens the door for a smaller version.
There have been many doors opened to smaller versions... all offered in Europe, but not in the US.

So many opportunities have been wasted, as newer technology has opened the door to engines generating similar horsepower/torque spec, with much better fuel economy, AND lower emissions.

CR platform in Europe is amazing in 1.2 Blue Motion, but even the 1.6L 4 cylinder CR is a fuel economy champ compared to what the US gets.

To VW...Make the fuel system bullet proof (or at least design for fail without catastrophe), and make much smaller options available in US market. Because if GM's diesel Volt gets made/offered, I think I will just throw in for it. What the heck. It is worth supporting the idea.
 
Last edited:

Second Turbo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
2003 ALH Wagon, 373K, 2nd 01M
Forever is sooner than you think

Quote from caranddriver.com:
"Also, as with the EA211 gas engines, a belt that never requires replacement drives the camshafts."

Xuchen > How's that possible?

It's all in how you define "never". The current TDI timing belt is described as "lifetime" by VW, but lasts a max of 150,000 miles.

I'd be surprised if this new belt lasted any longer, and suggesting that belts need no attention is going to cause many owners to destroy their engines.

What I don't seem to find in this announcement is what the fuel system is. If this is using the same total self-destruct HPFP design of the current CRs, the mpg considerations are somewhat secondary.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
VW isn't going to admit that there ever was a problem with the CR fuel pumps unless NHTSA forces them to do so. But don't think for a moment that they internally aren't aware that there is an issue. A more likely course of action will be that the pump is quietly changed to an improved design (and this may have already happened - we have no way of knowing). Note that the intercooler-freezing issue has been permanently fixed, because all of the new modular engine series are using an air-to-water intercooler.

I'm rather suspect of the "lifetime" timing belt, too. But at least at first glance, it doesn't look any harder to change than for the current models. (It's not inside the crankcases and lubricated by oil, the way the new Ford 1.0 Ecoboost is ...)
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
VW isn't going to admit that there ever was a problem with the CR fuel pumps unless NHTSA forces them to do so. But don't think for a moment that they internally aren't aware that there is an issue. A more likely course of action will be that the pump is quietly changed to an improved design (and this may have already happened - we have no way of knowing). Note that the intercooler-freezing issue has been permanently fixed, because all of the new modular engine series are using an air-to-water intercooler.

I'm rather suspect of the "lifetime" timing belt, too. But at least at first glance, it doesn't look any harder to change than for the current models. (It's not inside the crankcases and lubricated by oil, the way the new Ford 1.0 Ecoboost is ...)
Keep in mind, VW has gone along with the shorter 'lifespan" of their vehicles in Europe as 7 to 8 years between disposal of cars. Also keep in mind that with the price of fuel in Europe, and the size, the distances driven are not as large as those in the USA. So, in VW's eyes, 150k miles may very well be a life time for the car, and the folks in North America will just have to adjust their expectations lower. We'll still need to change the timing belt and other rubber products, like hoses, etc. And EGRs, and turbos, and DPF's.
 

FourCircle

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Location
Canada
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Progressiv
I'm 90% sure the 140 hp engine is NOT going to be upgraded to 190. I read the same press release car and driver sees and the writer read it wrong. According to the release, gains will be "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26%. 140-190 is 36%.
The max power of 190 will probably be for the 170hp GTD engine, not the 140 hp engine currently sold in the US. Not saying it's not coming to the US, just saying the 140 hp engine will probably end up "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26% so I'm guessing 150-155 hp.
I want to read the official press release (or have access to the source of CarandDriver Blog) to check everything.

Someone has the Internet link?

FourCircle
 

Dooglas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
'06 Jetta
Everything is in balance. FE and driving pleasure. European vehicle enthusiasts love its road holding. I think at 190HP and 280 lb-ft seem the perfect balance. FE and driving pleasure.

Otherwise, there are other choices, like the Prius and Chevy Volt if driving pleasure is not important to you.
I don't believe it is that simple. My TDI Jetta (100 hp) is more enjoyable for me to drive than previous Japanese sedans. And a 190 hp Chevy Volt would still feel like a Chevy Volt. If acceleration and speed are what you want - go for it. Just don't consider that the only measure of how a car feels or handles. And if fuel economy is one's priority, I have no idea why you said that 190 hp provides the perfect balance. Lots of different vehicles out there and lots of personal preferences.
 
Top