16 Jetta TSI

nokivasara

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Sweden @ Lat 61N
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Tiguan 4-motion, Golf mk7
The 1.4 has been out in Europe for a while now. I believe VW went back to a belt on the 1.4. When reading about its features, it does seem complicated. Hopefully it lasts!

I've contacted a few tuning companies to see when tunes will be released. It looks like Revo has one ready to go, unitronic is working on one, and APR might be working on one. We'll see what happens.
The 1.4 TSI we got over here on the mkV's was terrible, I don't know if the new ones are better but they have a belt now. The chains were nothing but trouble, the tensioners were bad, the chains streched etc etc and VW never admitted there were anything wrong :rolleyes:
But it is a nice engine, pretty strong, very quiet and good on fuel.
We were about to get a TSI before we bought our mkV TDI but the frequent cam chain issues put us off.
 

Dimitri16V

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Jan 30, 2005
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DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
Early Euro 1.4 TSI had chains and it was a lemon. Timing chain failures were attributed to tensioner loosing its pressure and introducing slack in the chain
Mind boggling how VAG cant get a chain engine right while the Japanese have no issues with theirs
I think the US version has a belt
 
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FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
Just an update. AC wasn't cooling up to par, so I took it in. 500g system was charged to 550g from the factory. Helped out a lot at low speed cooling. First all city tank, average speed 21mph for the tank, was 26.9 mpg. Not that great IMO, but it is what it is. AC use the entire tank. Get into boost and it'll use the fuel. Low rpm off boost nets incredibly good fuel mileage per readout. We will see what this tank does.
 

tdidieselbobny

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Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
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'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Last tank(4th) averaged 39.9 mpg,and 38.2 since I bought it.I filled up w/93 octane non-ethanol today,and I'll use for next 3 tanks for a comparison. I can usually avg. 51-57 mpg on my way to work not using the a/c in the morning(after I get out of city,approx 18 miles).....
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That's pretty good. There are a bunch of manual '16s available around here right now, most discounted $2,500-$3,500.
 

FordGuy100

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
I saw a local dealer had a "hail sale" event with some 16's, some were priced in the low to mid 13's.

My drive has been all around town, and I'm lucky to have a 20 mph average over the course of the tank, hence the high 20's low 30's I see. This week I'm driving down from Lincoln, NE to Tyler, TX. I'll fill with premium non ethanol to compare to my Fort Smith Trip.
 
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FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
Drove from Lincoln, NE to somewhere around Oklahoma City. Had a tail wind of 10mph the whole way, and filled up with non ethanol premium (91 octane). 510.5 miles, and it only took 11.003 gallons, so roughly 46.4 MPG. Cruise was set at 5mph over speed limit up to 75 MPH (which was the majority of it, average speed was 72 MPH for the tank).
 

PlaneCrazy

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Province of Quebec, Canada
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Gone...
I wish they'd offer that engine in a stripper Golf.
I concur. In fact I'd like to see it on two Golf models: a stripper, and a "bluemotion" set up for maximum efficiency:

  • 7-speed DSG or 6-speed manual
  • LRR tires
  • Auto stop/start
  • LED lighting
  • aerodynamic enhancements

etc.

It would be a TDI-killer. Speaking of which I just recently was in the UK where we rented a 2.0L TDI Bluemotion for 2 weeks, drove it 3100 km; 6-sp manual, DAP, auto stop/start, auto headlights, rain-sensing wipers, adaptive cruise control, park assist, auto day/night rear view mirror. The only thing not automatic on the car was the transmission :p

Got us 5.0 L/100 km with 70-80 mph on the motorway, lots of hills. Road trip report here:

2016 UK Trip
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I concur. In fact I'd like to see it on two Golf models: a stripper, and a "bluemotion" set up for maximum efficiency:
  • 7-speed DSG or 6-speed manual
  • LRR tires
  • Auto stop/start
  • LED lighting
  • aerodynamic enhancements
etc.
It would be a TDI-killer. Speaking of which I just recently was in the UK where we rented a 2.0L TDI Bluemotion for 2 weeks, drove it 3100 km; 6-sp manual, DAP, auto stop/start, auto headlights, rain-sensing wipers, adaptive cruise control, park assist, auto day/night rear view mirror. The only thing not automatic on the car was the transmission :p
Got us 5.0 L/100 km with 70-80 mph on the motorway, lots of hills. Road trip report here:
2016 UK Trip
It would never be a "TDI killer", because the smaller TDI engines, with similar non-engine related enhancements, would easily trounce any gasoline engine. The only advantage a 1.4L gas engine like that would have is its pricing, and if it didn't have to compete with a diesel, which since we'll never get one of those super efficient diesels here (or possibly ANY diesel, for that matter), it is of no consequence. And its price advantage would only be around as long as it remains free of the burdens of a particle filter...probably another 5 years at the very most. Then, the gassers, starting with the DI turbos of course, will be saddled with them just the same as the diesels have been. Which means, higher cost, more fragile bits to break, and poorer fuel economy.

So, right now, this "new" 1.4L gas engine in this market is enjoying the same advantages the ALH did when it was new. So, get it while you can I suppose. Court is still out on its longevity and how well it is for reliability. And the engine it replaced was pretty gosh darn good in that regard, but it used nearly twice the gasoline.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Gone...
It would never be a "TDI killer", because the smaller TDI engines, with similar non-engine related enhancements, would easily trounce any gasoline engine. The only advantage a 1.4L gas engine like that would have is its pricing, and if it didn't have to compete with a diesel, which since we'll never get one of those super efficient diesels here (or possibly ANY diesel, for that matter), it is of no consequence. And its price advantage would only be around as long as it remains free of the burdens of a particle filter...probably another 5 years at the very most. Then, the gassers, starting with the DI turbos of course, will be saddled with them just the same as the diesels have been. Which means, higher cost, more fragile bits to break, and poorer fuel economy.

So, right now, this "new" 1.4L gas engine in this market is enjoying the same advantages the ALH did when it was new. So, get it while you can I suppose. Court is still out on its longevity and how well it is for reliability. And the engine it replaced was pretty gosh darn good in that regard, but it used nearly twice the gasoline.
Yes I think you're right if comparing the 1.4 TSI to a 1.6 TDI as currently found in Europe. But since North Americans seem to think that about 140-150 hp is the bare minimum required for a compact car, we only get the 2.0 TDI. Or rather "got" as I think the TDI is dead in N. America at least in the compact car category (for SUVs, I think the Touareg and Audi Q5 and Q7 will need the 3.0 to compete with other diesels on the market). Against a 2.0, especially one de-tuned to pass (honestly this time) EPA, the 1.4 will do quite fine with much less plumbing, at least for now. Even the 1.8 TSI isn't all that much worse than a TDI. Compared to my wife's TDI wagon, there's only about 1.0 L/100 km difference on the highway and in our average driving mix which is mostly rural. Hardly justification for the $3k premium VW wanted. In fact, VW had to give a $1500 discount on the TDIs for that reason.

The Golf 2.0 TDI we rented in the UK a few weeks ago gave us an average of around 5.0 L/100 km in 3100 km of driving with speeds up to 80 mph on the motorway and whatever the market would bear on other roads (max to about 60 mph on "A" roads, 50 mph on "B" roads, 30 mph on single-track roads, and the odd burst to 70 mph on good A roads). I suspect my TSI would be closer to 6.5 or 7 in those conditions which makes the TDI more attractive over there. The roads we drove were mainly in Wales, Yorkshire and the Scottish Highlands and thus very hilly. In those conditions, the TDI would really shine! But for my needs on this side of the pond, a 1.4 TSI would be plenty and my 1.8 is almost overkill.
 

tdidieselbobny

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Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
A Polo with the 1.4 TSI would qualify as a TDI killer
My last tank on 93 octane non-ethanol was 42.9mpg -my 6 tank avg. per fuelly is 39.8mpg. I'm doing 1 more tank of the 93 then going back to 87. I'll post the avg of my first 4 tanks w/87 and the next 4 with the 93. This mileage has been almost 95% with my a/c on due to this rotten hot summer:rolleyes:-I don't tolerate heat as well as I used to......
 

FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
I'm up to 39.0 MPG average for all my tanks, with a few of those with dismall around town driving MPG. I just completed a trip from Texas up to Yellowstone, then to Glacier national Park, and then back to Oregon. Most of those tanks were over 40 MPG, even with driving around the parks, and cruising in between them at 75-80 MPH.

I will say, at alitude, the car needs some higher RPM's so that it can get into boost easier. Premium helped, but you could still tell it was struggling to move the car along in higher gears off boost. As long as you were above 17-1800 RPM's in 4th or 5th (less for the lower gears), power was fine. Below that, you really had to plan on getting onto the throttle a few seconds before the apex of a corner so that it would build boost and power by the time you came out. Still felt plenty strong, just had to drive it a little different.

Car has over 6000 miles on it now, and its fuel economy keeps trending upwards, as I imagine its still breaking in. My wife was driving the JSW as we had two cars for the trip. Under the same scenario, it only outdid my car in MPG in 2 of the 6 tanks for the trip.
 
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tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I finished my "premium"trial and filled up w/the regular grade last time. I haven't had to use a/c much this tank,and it shows-trending toward best one yet,and my avg.mpg on dash that remains constant is a little over 45mpg now(I haven't reset it since I accidentally did shortly after I bought car)....
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
A Polo with the 1.4 TSI would qualify as a TDI killer

No it wouldn't, because a TDI (any of the ones offered) in a Polo would use less fuel. Diesels are just more efficient. Period. There is simply more stored energy, BTUs, in diesel fuel than there is in gasoline. Even with emission compliance strangling forcing diesels to run "richer" than they otherwise normally would require to make the car move will still net better fuel economy.

Whether or not it makes monetary sense is a different debate, but for simple apples to apples fuel use comparison, the diesel will always win out.

I admit this 1.4L TSI + manual Jetta S looks pretty good, but I assure you a TDI of similar output and displacement would likely get that same car into the 55-60 MPG range quite easily. Comparing this tiny gasser to a bigger more powerful diesel (which STILL uses less fuel) isn't really the best comparison albeit that is often what is used since that is what we get/got.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I wonder how the folks posting here are driving the cars. FordGuy did describe, and I would believe 39 MPG in mixed driving as he describes. But as oilhammer points out, TDIs are more efficient: I would expect high 40s in similar driving in a TDI.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Province of Quebec, Canada
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Gone...
I wonder how the folks posting here are driving the cars. FordGuy did describe, and I would believe 39 MPG in mixed driving as he describes. But as oilhammer points out, TDIs are more efficient: I would expect high 40s in similar driving in a TDI.
I figure driven the same way, my TSI is about 1.0 L/100 km higher than my previous TDI or my wife's. Actually since the IC TSB on my old Mk VI, my wife's has always been slightly more economical in summer.

One thing to keep in mind is that the MFD was more accurate on the Mk VI: about 0.1 to 0.2 L/100 km, whereas on the TSI, it's optimistic by 0.4 L/100 km fairly consistently. The 1.0 estimate takes that into consideration.

The issue of course is whether that 1.0L is worth the extra cost and aggravation of the multiple Rube Goldberg plumbing contraptions on the TDI to cheat... oops I mean meet emissions. When I bought my TSI, the TDI (still in the catalogue as this was a couple of weeks before dieselgate) was a full $3k more on a Trendline. Not worth it IMHO, especially with the rear suspension downgrade.

I drove almost exactly 24k km in my first year, about 6k more than I anticipated due to some added activities in retirement. That's compared to about 40-45k when I was commuting 3x per week. I would say that the $3k for me was not worth it, and the difference is likely even less justifiable with the 1.4 TSI.

The only thing I miss about the TDI is range. The Mk VII has 5L less nominal tank capacity, so a TDI would help and if the Jetta still has the 55 L tank, range should be pretty decent with the TSI. As it is I can consistently get 700 km per tank in summer. It's a weird tank. I can actually put in 10 extra L after the pump shuts off the first time. I figure that if I fill that headspace I may not be doing any favours to the evap emissions system over the long term, so I only put 2.5 extra L in so I can get my 700 km. If I used that full 10 L I'd be good for 800 km (500 mile) range, but as it is, 700 (450 miles) isn't so bad. We use my wife's wagon on long road trips in any case and it can do over 1000 km if there are no bikes on the roof, so it doesn't matter so much for putzing around.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I have often championed AGAINST the TDI since the CRs came out if your only reason for buying one is money. Or rather, "saving" money. Because that is NOT a wise choice. However they will STILL use less fuel in spite of costing more to buy, costing more to maintain, and now being "illegal" ;)

All if this is just more reason to keep and maintain the ones you have, because there just is not going to be anything comparable in the near future, and perhaps not ever again until some mega breakthrough in battery technology places EVs within reasonable usefulness for a majority of the motoring public.

I am so spoiled now from driving a 50+ MPG car every day (and previously I was driving a 45 MPG car every day) I could not fathom anything less. My gasser Beetle is pathetic in comparison. It really is. But it is old tech, so I understand it won't be that good. But it is reliable.
 

FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
I agree with oil hammer, the TDI would likely get better MPG. But as I did point out, out of 6 tanks, my wife's (tuned) JSW only outdid my car on 2 of them, and only by abiut 5-10%. I would have bought a TDI, but I needed a cheap car ASAP and I was buying in the rust belt so anything over a few years old was showing signs of cancer.

I'm back in Oregon and can actually compare my commutes MPG's. My previous TDI was doing mid to upper 40's (winter 43-45, summer 46-48), so we shall see what this TSI can do comparatively. I will have some data in the next month.
 

tdidieselbobny

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Joined
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Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I'm driving this Jetta a little more conservatively than the B4,as this car doesn't have a tune and won't fog out the tailgaters;). When I do put my foot into it,it REALLY kills the mpg,along w/running the a/c. I do miss the TDI,especially that diesel is near the same price as RUG,but this car is putting me back to once weekly fillups,as the Matrix I was filling up twice a week.
 

FordGuy100

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2004 Jetta TDI

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Just an FYI, an oil change, with per VW spec oil's, is roughly the same for a 1.4 TSI and a CJAA TDI. So we can take that potential cost savings out of the equation for the TSI.

Using these pages as comparisons:
1.4t: https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_VI-Sedan_Facelift-1.4T/Maintenance/Engine/3
CJAA TDI: https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_VI-Sportwagen-TDI/Maintenance/Engine/5

Nothing new there, VAG gassers have long been pretty close on oil change costs. And yes, VAG gas engines have enjoyed a 10k mile interval for a very long time, too. As have many other manufacturers. Nothing new there either.

Some of the VAG gas engines do hold a liter more oil, however. And many (most?) seem to use enough oil between services that they will warrant a topping up, which can be anywhere from a liter like my BEV engine, to as much as 7 liters like a lot of BPY engines :eek: .
 

FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
Luckily, am still at the same level per the dipstick as when I got it. Currently at 6350 miles. Going to go ahead and change it then proceed to 10k oil changes. The 1.4 only holds 4.7 quarts IIRC
 

FordGuy100

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Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
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2004 Jetta TDI
Well, I did an oil change at 7K miles. Noticed the dipstick was at the bottom of the hashed area, so the very bottom of the acceptable range before you should add. Oil change went fine, oil filter is in a fantastic position for a spin on filter. It is mounted horizontally, but it seems at a slight angle, so when you crack it loose it will drain at the flange and not leak down the oil filter. Anyways, while I was down there I noticed a decent amount of oil between the engine/trans, coming out of the trans rubber plugs (I guess they are for viewing the flywheel/clutch). It was only on the bottom portion, so I'm thinking I have a rear main seal leak. I'm going to get it into VW service and see what they say. Thats what warranties are for I suppose. Car got an VW OE filter and Castrol Professional OE 5w40.

I'm starting to get back into my driving routine. It looks like with regular 87 octane/10% ethanol its getting right around 5-10% less FE than my BEW was doing under the same circumstances. A few more weeks will give me a better idea.
 

tdidieselbobny

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Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
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'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Well, I did an oil change at 7K miles. Noticed the dipstick was at the bottom of the hashed area, so the very bottom of the acceptable range before you should add. Oil change went fine, oil filter is in a fantastic position for a spin on filter. It is mounted horizontally, but it seems at a slight angle, so when you crack it loose it will drain at the flange and not leak down the oil filter. Anyways, while I was down there I noticed a decent amount of oil between the engine/trans, coming out of the trans rubber plugs (I guess they are for viewing the flywheel/clutch). It was only on the bottom portion, so I'm thinking I have a rear main seal leak. I'm going to get it into VW service and see what they say. Thats what warranties are for I suppose. Car got an VW OE filter and Castrol Professional OE 5w40.

I'm starting to get back into my driving routine. It looks like with regular 87 octane/10% ethanol its getting right around 5-10% less FE than my BEW was doing under the same circumstances. A few more weeks will give me a better idea.
Any update on the oil leak? I just crossed the 6k mile mark yesterday. I got my best tank a week ago -46.6mpg,and my average from start according to Fuelly is 41.1mpg,been using 87 octane last few tanks. I need to rotate tires and install the splash guards I bought a few weeks ago. I picked up a set of alloys last week,but need to double check fitment.They have some curb rash and gouges,so definitely would be a winter setup if I use them.....
 

tikal

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Apr 18, 2001
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Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
I wonder how the folks posting here are driving the cars. FordGuy did describe, and I would believe 39 MPG in mixed driving as he describes. But as oilhammer points out, TDIs are more efficient: I would expect high 40s in similar driving in a TDI.
Correct. And Fuelly averages consistently proves this. Please do not look at anecdotical evidence sometimes posted on a small gasser 'beating' a light duty diesel car in mileage. Like there was a post not too long ago stating than in a 'test' the Mazda 3 gasser did better in mileage than a Jetta TDI. Look in Fuelly and it is not even close. We are talking like the Jetta TDI is around 21% better in MPG than the Mazda 3 gasser. Even once the TDI CRs will be 'fixed' they will beat the similar gassers in MPG easily.

Now with gas at around $2 gallon the cost/benefit factor of TDI vs gasser gets more complicated.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I agree with you. I saw the post about the Mazda 3 getting same FE as a CR TDI and disregarded it, because I think you can coax good fuel economy out of a small gasoline engine, but TDIs deliver good FE even if you don't baby them.
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
I agree with you. I saw the post about the Mazda 3 getting same FE as a CR TDI and disregarded it, because I think you can coax good fuel economy out of a small gasoline engine, but TDIs deliver good FE even if you don't baby them.
averaged 44 mpg on trip from DC to Wisconsin and back running 75-80 MPH in my 2015 Jetta SEL TDI
 

FordGuy100

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Location
Silverton, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI
TDI wins hands down. This last tank was 42.2 MPG's (regular 87 + 10% ethanol), and my old BEW would have done roughly 46 MPG's this time of the year. My car gets within a few percentage points (+-) of my wifes JSW which drives roughly the same route, plus the JSW is tuned. And as pointed out, if I start to use the throttle, this little 1.4T really starts to drink the gas.

Fuelly shows I do roughly 70% highway 30% city and my running average is 39.2 MPG. Those few tanks that were 100% city really draws that number down though. Flat highway cruise at 75 MPH is in the 45 MPG range. I've also noticed that my MPG readout is within 1-2% of actual mileage, which is impressive.

I called a VW service place and they said that the leak is covered under warranty. I have to schedule a time to do it, as they will take a few days, and loaner cars are scheduled out a few weeks in advance.
 
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