Replace turbo or replace car ('03 jetta tdi)?

coolbean1000

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Location
Deptford, NJ
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6 speed
Hi - should i replace the turbo or replace the car?

Here's the specifics:
2003 TDI manual, 220,000 miles. (I've had it since 2005/35k miles.) Replaced clutch, timimg belt, tensioner, starter, water pump, intake manifold (due to coke buildup.) The turbo was going into limp-mode, and i gave it about 4 easy-off treatments. it still goes into limp mode at 3-4-5th gear at 100% throttle. (So i don't use 100%) Compression is good; engine has been well maintained with synthentic oil changes every 5k miles. I like this car and would prefer keeping it, but...

The question(s):
How much should replacing the turbo cost (assume rebuilt turbo from rothenbacher Engineering/hansautoparts.com out of N.Carolina)?

Does the motor need to be pulled to replace turbo?

What should the total cost be (Southern NJ) to replace the turbo?

What should i consider replacing while the engine is apart?

Thank you all in advance for any guidance!

Phil
What other things
 

Lex4TDI4Life

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
....How much should replacing the turbo cost (assume rebuilt turbo from rothenbacher Engineering/hansautoparts.com out of N.Carolina)?....
Haha! If you buy your turbo from rothenbacher, I would advise you to save up for an entire new engine. Search for the name "Prothe" on this site. You should, in no way, buy ANYTHING from this guy. He is known to sell complete CRAP and, btw, our turbos do not take well to rebuilds.

In my opinionn, IF you need a new turbo, get a real new one from one of our trusted vendors: idparts.com, boraparts.com, kermatdi.com, etc.


Replacing a turbo on these engines is not rocket science. You do not have to pull the engine. Find the username hevster1 on this site. He is a trusted Guru in northern NJ who will do a bang up job on your car.
 
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apples12

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Location
Birmingham, United Kingdom
TDI
Mk5 1.9tdi Match, BMW F10 520D
I've got a turbo replacement to look forward to quite soon possibly and my cost will be as follows:
£300 for the turbo ~480 USD
£34 for the oil line ~50 USD
£12 for exhaust gasket ~12USD
£3 for EGR pipe gasket
£8 for intercooler pipe o-rings
then its just labour cost on top of that, i was told by my mechanic it would be a day and halfs job as they pull out the intercooler and all the intercooler pipework when replacing a turbo and flush everything to get all the oil out, check everything for leaks before re-installing with new seals where necessary or if they're 'cheap' i.e. only a couple of pounds (or dollars in your case)

and if you like the car...replace the turbo and keep on driving, you've replaced most of the major wear items apart from the suspension and DMF so it should be good to go on for another 220,000 miles! but diagnose why the turbo's gone bad first though...

(the exchange rate is just a google estimation.lol. i've only really put the prices up as you requested cost, its moreso to give you an idea of what i'd be changing when i get mine in for its turbo change soon)
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Rothenbacher = NO EFFING WAY!

Turbo replacement is not a complicated job, and certainly doesn't require engine disassembly or removal.

Before you replace the turbo, you need to troubleshoot the entire system to find out WHY it's going into limp mode. I would hate to see you put a new turbo on and have the same limp mode problems due to a bad sensor, vacuum leak, clogged intake manifold or something of that nature.

There is a great turbo troubleshooting HOW TO in the HOW TO sticky at the top of this forum.
 

Frans

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Location
Netherlands
TDI
Golf MK2 TDI
There is no need to pull the engine when replacing the turbo.

5k miles between every oil change is not necessary...

If you need a quality rebuilded turbo, send me a PM. I can make you an offer.
 

coolbean1000

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Location
Deptford, NJ
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6 speed
Ok, peeps. I get the message on prothe. (glad I posted this question!) I'll search elsewhere for the turbo replacement!

Here's an abbreviated summary of the turbo issue:

-approx 150k miles: relaced intake manifold at stealership (my last visit there) the intake was almost coked shut. cost approx $700 USD.
All the following work was done by a master-VW mechanic who opened in his own shop in S. NJ:
-Approx 170k miles: limp mode and CEL light. error codes (forgot #'s) showed overboost condition. Replace MAF
-Overboost code thrown again. Oven cleaner on exhaust side of turbo.
-195k miles: replaced timing belt to spec. Car ran like gasser: no pre-2k rpm power, but after 2k lots o' power and extended rpm range of power. Cleaned exhaust side of turbo again.
-mechanic adjusted timing belt timing (for free): it turns out one of the other three adjustments was off by 3 degrees. This would cause more smoke/soot. Hence the intake replacement at 150k miles! Cleaned exhaust side of turbo again. Overboost error did not show up for about one month when using 100% throttle.
-fast forward to today: 220k miles. Oil is now coming out of what i think is the egr valve. the oil is coming from turbo, i'm guessing from possible bearings. (this is a guess)

Depending on cost, i'm also open to turbo upgrade suggestions.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Replace the turbo for sure. If you've had enough of the car, it'll sell better with a fresh turbo. If you like it, keep it, it's got lots of life left.

I'd suggest you go visit Mike Hevner in Columbia NJ. He's probably a bit of a drive for you but well worth it. He'll do the turbo work and sort out any other issues the car has as a result of the dealer's loving care.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
-approx 150k miles: relaced intake manifold at stealership (my last visit there) the intake was almost coked shut. cost approx $700 USD.
The intake manifold did not need to be replaced, just cleaned, and can be done for a lot less than $700.00. It's not that hard to do it yourself.

Based on all the other info you posted...you need a new mechanic. Best to go to a TDIclub GURU in your area. Go to hevster1 like others have recommended.

Replace turbo if needed. It may just need a new actuator and not a whole new turbo. Then keep the car. 220k miles is nothing on these cars provided the car has been properly maintained.

Good luck.
 
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coolbean1000

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Location
Deptford, NJ
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6 speed
Hey these are really good replies. In all fairness to the mechanic, he did quote me $1500 to replace the turbo, stock. He also did the oven cleaner bit at my request. (it was a journey of diagnostics to understand why the turbo was going into limp mode...this forum helped with the ovencleaner suggestion which allowed my to get by for two years of improved performance while putting off the turbo replacement for 50k miles.)
The dealer was the one that suggested replacing the manifold, stating that the labor to clean it was cheaper than replacing the manifold. After that BS is why i don't go there any more. It's also the dealer that did the first timing belt change with the 3 degree error, at 80k miles. (which really sucked to find out)

I kept the manifold when it was replaced, and cleaned it out and will stick that in when the turbo is replaced.

Columbia is 2.5 hours each way, otherwise I'd go there. The mechanic I'm using is local, and helped diagnose in an efficient manner. I didn't convey that in my summary, but he did.

I checked out prices on the two options for upgrades on IDParts.com and decided i'll stick with stock.

Are there any other recommended maintenance items such as a head gasket or anything I should consider while having the turbo done?

Thanks - this conversation so darn useful!
 

Lex4TDI4Life

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
The head doesnt need to come off and unless you are running crazy boost, it should be fine.

Make sure you get the "turbo installation kit" with all the nuts, gaskets, etc. You will also want to get a new turbo oil supply line.
 

Dieselducky

Veteran Member
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Oct 13, 2011
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Dunnville
TDI
88 Jetta Diesel - 2000 Jetta TDI - 04 BMW M3 - 06 Kia Rio - F350 Superduty - 87 Buick GNX - Mobile Cranes
Rothenbacher ......i just threw up in my mouth
 

csstevej

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Location
north nj
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2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Mike's in Montague N.J. now at his new place:).
 
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MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
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2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
First find out why out it's going it limp mode.Make sure vacuum lines are not cracked or put backward.Check the actuator on the turbo for vacume leakes.


Good luck Tom
 

hagar

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Location
Columbia, SC
TDI
2002 white Jetta 5sp & 2006 Mercedes CDI
My limp mode went away when I replaced the mass airflow sensor, and never came back. Less than $100 on Ebay last time I looked.
 

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
coolbean1000 said:
Columbia is 2.5 hours each way, otherwise I'd go there. The mechanic I'm using is local, and helped diagnose in an efficient manner. I didn't convey that in my summary, but he did.
2.5? That's it? I drove 4 hours each way to a guru to have the timing belt done on my '02. Sometimes driving a few hours will wind up saving you a lot of timemoney, and aggravation.

Are you any closer to Port Jervis?


My limp mode went away when I replaced the mass airflow sensor, and never came back. Less than $100 on Ebay last time I looked.
According to his earlier post, he already did that.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Is it worth a day's time to save $1500 on what is possibly an unnecessary turbo replacement? Is it worth it to have an expert figure out what may cost you days and many dollars with a non-TDI guru mechanic who happens to be local? Members here have learned that if you have to travel to get the right answer to a problem, it's worth it to travel.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Limp mode that isn't throwing a CEL can be frustrating. Even with a CEL it took me a while to figure out that my 2-year-old MAF needed replacing.

VCDS will help you diagnose it and is a lot cheaper than a new turbo. Please make sure your mechanic is using VCDS and not a simple code reader!

The oil coming from the EGR could be unrelated to the turbo but if it is from the turbo you could be the next runaway poster!
The guys telling you to see a guru have your best interest at heart. Good luck.
 
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coolbean1000

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Location
Deptford, NJ
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6 speed
yep, It's been a long road of diagnosing the limp mode thing. We (the mechanic mostly, and my research on these forums) went through a long process of elimination: Yes, the actuator was checked. The MAF was replaced. The conclusion is that the turbo is gummed up from the coking which causes the vanes to stick and cause over-boost. This theory is supported by results we get when we easy-off the exhaust side of the turbo. Great performance; no limp mode for approx 1-2 months, then it comes back, but only in 3-4-5 gear at 100% throttle.
When limp mode sets in, i shut off the key and restart to reset. Frankly, i could live with this condition for longer, but it eats at me and i want to fix it.
Thanks everyone for making the case to travel to trusted TDI dude in N. NJ, but that means two full days (2 round trips) of traveling. I understand the reasoning, but it's just not feasible. I'm going to stick with my local guy in Woodbury, NJ.
On a side note, my first and only purchase from Rothenbacher was the too-good-to-be true glow plug set for USD $24.00...they threw a cel/code after 4 months. I called rothenbacher, told them what happened, and they replaced the set for free (less shipping) after i returned the originals. The replacement set is now throwing a code. I'll return them and buy the good ones instead of what looks like the Chinese-cheapo set. No other items (timing belt or other) from rothenbacher.

Thanks also for replying with the check list of parts to replace when doing the turbo. Hopefully I my oil leak is just the EGR thing and not from the turbo, but we'll see. I'll repost when the job is completed.
 

MayorDJQ

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Location
Williamstown, Mass
TDI
'10 Golf 2dr 6m, sold.
How much time & money have you spent so far? How much more do you want to throw at it chasing the problem? Does the local guy even have VCDS? Quite possibly you'd have the problem solved in short time.

Rent a car for the downtime if needed.
 

richmondvatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon 5-speed,2003 Jetta GL Wagon, 2003 Jetta GLS Wagon, 2013 CC 2.0T
I'm going to stick with my local guy in Woodbury, NJ.
I used to have that opinion, until I found out how much better it is having someone work on your car who really, really knows the engine inside and out. I do basic maintenance on my cars, but now I do not hesitate to travel 90 miles one way to have ninedee_golf_tdi in Stafford work his magic on my TDI's.
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
Joined
Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
I just did all this on my car. IDParts.com has a sale on turbos right now. I replaced the turbocharger, oil supply pipe, oil drain pipe, banjo-bolts, crush washers, gaskets, everything. The job goes a lot faster when the tech doesn't have to worry about trying to save/fight a rusty nut, bolt, etc. B4/1Z turbos are cheaper than A4/ALH turbos so I won't compare prices.

$1500, parts & labor, for an A4 turbo replacement would not be out of line if ALL parts are included.

:)
 
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