Engine Miss 2005 Jetta Tdi

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Was hoping I can find a good TDI mechanic in the West Chester, PA area (near Philly, PA). I have a 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI with 115,000 miles. Suddenly the car started missing under load but runs fine at idle and a crack of throttle. The engine began clattering a bit louder at the same time this problem began. VW pulleld the valve cover to check for worn cam, everything was fine, checked for a clogged intake and it was only partally clogged not enough to cause issues, checked the timing and ran the diagnostics, no codes came up, installed a new fuel pump, fuel filter, air filter, oil change, and injector pump and the problem was not resolved but I paid $1,200. I assume it is a clogged injector in one of the cylinders. I was quoted $1,000 for the 4 injectors plus labor. I do not trust the VW dealers are competent to do anything more than oil changes. I am in need of a real good diesel TDI mechanic that knows how to property diagnose and repair issues. Any help would be appreciated.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Rolf, have you been using traditional fuel in this car or the funny stuff? Many mechanics are making a business decision to not get involved when WVO is used.
 

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Geasecar kit installed, have been running strait diesel in for the last 5k and no change, the mechanics all say it is the kit and will nto work on the car. The wierd thing is it runs better when I run it on the kit - diesel in the heated tank with the additional lift pump on, when I switch it back to standard it will not go over 60 mph runs like it is on 3 cylinders if I flip the switch to the heated tank it runs much better. At this point everything in the fuel system has been replaced except the injectors so I am guessing it is a clogged injector. Will a partal clogged injector cause the engine to clatter louder?
 

PeterV

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Location
So, NH.
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 sp.
There have been recent posts that some of the TDI gurus are NOT going to work on WVO cars. WVO although a fuel savings is a high cost item for engine maint. There are those that do all their own Maint and thusly save dealer costs. The PD motors are not forgiving for 'g' use.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
RolfRimrott said:
  • installed a new fuel pump
  • fuel filter
  • air filter
  • oil change
  • injector pump
  • paid $1,200
Rolf, your 2005 TDI has both a fuel pump and an injector pump? And you had all these items replaced for $1,200? Sounds very cheap :)

Do you want to contact Metal Man? I guess he's in Sunbury and would likely be able to work thru these issues IF he is willing to do so. Please do NOT omit material facts and share the entire history of this car with him, not just selected bits 'n' pieces. Give him the whole saga ;)

Take care.
 

hevster1

Vendor
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Columbia NJ
TDI
98 NB
As others here have said, good luck in finding someone who will work on a wvo car. Be prepared to spend some bucks to get this fixed. Also I strongly suggest that once fixed you remove the greasecar setup and throw it away. The money you saved will now be spent on fixing your car.
Try Gene's in Broomall @ 610-356-2389 or Woodlawn in Philly @ 215-843-5939.
Both are listed under trusted TDI technicians in your area.
Good Luck.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I need to get a WVO-engine-fail gif of Freddie just for these threads. The 01M Freddie gif is just not enough. :eek:
 

BadMonKey

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Location
Colorado
TDI
2013 Focus ST
hevster1 said:
As others here have said, good luck in finding someone who will work on a wvo car. Be prepared to spend some bucks to get this fixed. Also I strongly suggest that once fixed you remove the greasecar setup and throw it away. The money you saved will now be spent on fixing your car.
Try Gene's in Broomall @ 610-356-2389 or Woodlawn in Philly @ 215-843-5939.
Both are listed under trusted TDI technicians in your area.
Good Luck.
You have no clue whats really wrong with his car stop jumping to conclusions. My car did the same thing when the Lift pump started acting up and it never ran WVO. If the mechanic isn't willing to work on your car because of the WVO system than hes not the right mechanic and saved you time/money in screwing it up worse than it already is.

If you dont have a full understanding of processing WVO or source for quality WVO than take hevster1's advice and remove the WVO kit as its not very forgiving to novice users.
 

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
I found a local shop here in Houston, TX (I am down here working the hurricane damage) www.bartuning.com he is diagnosing the problem as I drive another rental. He works on WVO cars all the time, he said if a mechanic is scared to work on a WVO car that means he is most likely using it as an out due too he is no good at diagnosing problems. Like the dealers I took it to - only good at changing oil and air filters...
 

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
The T belt was replaced at YBH in Edgemont, PA at 90K, vehicle was serviced every 10K at YBH since new, and i change the oil every 5k in between.

As for the WVO I filter it through a 5 micron sock filter then pump it through a 5 micron filter and then pump through a 1 micron filter. I also found a supplier with .5 micron WVO for $1.00 per gallon, .5 micron is cleaner then petro diesel at the truck stops...
 

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
dieseldorf said:
Rolf, your 2005 TDI has both a fuel pump and an injector pump? And you had all these items replaced for $1,200? Sounds very cheap :)

Do you want to contact Metal Man? I guess he's in Sunbury and would likely be able to work thru these issues IF he is willing to do so. Please do NOT omit material facts and share the entire history of this car with him, not just selected bits 'n' pieces. Give him the whole saga ;)

Take care.
The fuel lift pump in the fuel tank was replaced and also the vaccum pump on the head that runs off the cam. The rest of the money was spent on diagnostics, pulling the valve cover, running codes, checking timing etc
 

RolfRimrott

Active member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
I guess all my reserach was one sided about these WVO kits, now I am finding the bad side information. I am debating on removing the kit now, does anyone know about water / alcohol injection being used to clean out all the coking? I have been doing some reserach and only found positive info so far. You guys are the TDI guru;s any insight on water / alcohol injection would be helpful. I am now wanting to get the gum out of the motor (assuming 10k of WVO miles has gummed up the rings etc).

Thanks for the insight
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I have turned around quite a few WVO cars by using products such as Seafoam or BG's compression restorer agent. This works so long as they are not too terribly bad.

The spot that is REALLY bad is the oil ring lands. The oil rings get gunked up, then the drain holes in the ring lands (grooves) start to plug up. The way an oil ring is designed to work is that it operates somewhat like a squeegee and slides against the cylinder wall on the way down and pushes the oil away. Some oil gets pushed down, some gets forced down into the ring land and through the drain holes in the piston, to the inside bottom of the piston where the wrist pin and connecting rod are. If those drain holes get plugged up, the oil cannot properly be drained away and the squeegee operation fails. Then the oil gets forced up above the oil ring, to the compression ring area. Compression rings only work on the compression stroke and power stroke (they are forced OUT to the cylinder walls when positive pressure is above them). On the intake stroke, there is negative pressure above them (vacuum of sorts) as the air through the intake is being drawn into the engine. That negative pressure will also draw that oil up past the compression rings (again, remember compression rings DO NOT seal oil by design). That oil gets drawn up into and mixes with the intake air, gets trapped, compressed, and ultimately burned.

So chronic, massive oil consumption results. And it only gets worse because that coking of the oil drain holes in the pistons is increased by more oil consumption. Snowball effect. And, in many cases this INCREASES the compression because the oil forms a tighter seal on the piston in the cylinder. That is why so many WVO cars have compression readings all over the place, but in many cases higher than normal (I have seen them as high as 650+ psi! :eek: ) which just causes even more design stresses in an engine that was never intended for that. Not to mention the uneven running an engine has with uneven compression.
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
OH, it may be a dumb question but could one pull the glowplugs and fill the cylinders with kerosine (or similar), and let it soak for a day or two, to see if it'd loosen something up? A couple of quick OCI's after that, maybe with some of those miracle engine cleaners?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
supton said:
OH, it may be a dumb question but could one pull the glowplugs and fill the cylinders with kerosine (or similar), and let it soak for a day or two, to see if it'd loosen something up? A couple of quick OCI's after that, maybe with some of those miracle engine cleaners?
You can, and I do, BUT you have to be EXTREMELY careful with that on a TDI. Reason being is you need to be able to get ALL the liquid out of the cylinder before trying to start the engine. This can be tough due to the piston bowl design of a direct-injected diesel.

The older diesel engines had essentially a flat top piston that would hold little to no liquid. The TDI has a large "hole" in the top of the piston that can hold enough liquid to cause some severe damage to the engine if it was cranked over while full.

So long as you do the following you should be OK:

Remove ALL the glowplugs, and set the pistons all at mid-block (meaning all 4 pistons are halfway between TDC and BDC level in the center of their stroke).

Just put enough liquid in the cylinder to insure the entire top of the piston is covered, so that seepage of this agent past the rings happens all the way around, which on a FWD VAG product means about 12 to 15 liquid ounces total in all 4 cylinders due to the 15 degree angle the engine sits at.

Remove via a suction tube device through the GP holes any remaining solvent after sitting.

Spray a highly evaporative cleaning agent to 'rinse' the cylinders (such as brake cleaner) in each cylinder and throughly dry with compressed air.

Drain and refill the oil (some will have leaked into the crankcase).

Crank the engine over BY HAND several revolutions with no plugs in.

Continue to crank the engine via the starter with the injection pump unplugged so no fuel can be injected while the plugs are still out to push anything left out.

Then after installing the plugs, but before plugging the bridge on and plugging the pump in crank the engine again...if any volatile liquids remain above the piston, the engine will compress and attempt to burn this...so you might get a sputter and some puffs of smoke...this is a good thing because you want to purge anything left totally OUT of the engine.

Then plug the remaining bits in, clear the ECU memory of all the DTCs you set, start the car and go run the snot out of it until up to temp then change the oil again.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
and now back to the Pageant

I've been waiting since last Wednesday for this word-from-our-sponsor to end.......
So NOW may we see Miss 2005 Jetta Tdi Engine?
Or at least first and second runners-up in this pageant?
 

Staley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
82 Rabbit TD / 00 Golf RC3!
Well the story ends like this.
I removed the glow plugs and the element on cylinder #3 was completely missing. about 1/4 inch were missing from 1 2 and 4.
I have a really cool scope that I inserted thru the glow plug hole, and you can see lots of score marks on the cylinder walls.
The head is comming off.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Staley said:
Well the story ends like this.
I removed the glow plugs and the element on cylinder #3 was completely missing. about 1/4 inch were missing from 1 2 and 4.
I have a really cool scope that I inserted thru the glow plug hole, and you can see lots of score marks on the cylinder walls.
The head is comming off.
Don't bother, it is probably too late for that engine to be saved. :(
 

Staley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
82 Rabbit TD / 00 Golf RC3!
IT sucks really bad actually. With 100k you would think that they would not have failed. stock engine with stock software. We are going to try and save the engine, the cost to replace one is WAY to darn expensive.
 

Staley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
82 Rabbit TD / 00 Golf RC3!
What about that Engine restore in a can? If you watch the mis-leading advertisement... it coats the cylinder walls and renews them!! Maybe we could just skip the engine oil and add 4qts of that stuff...
UMMM NO LOL
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
How does WVO usage take out glowplugs?

I presume the compression is way too low to run--but what is blowing, by chance? Any chance of getting photos of the bores and the head when the head comes off?
 

Staley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
82 Rabbit TD / 00 Golf RC3!
I am not pointing any fingers at WVO usage.
I will take some detailed photos
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
supton said:
How does WVO usage take out glowplugs?

I presume the compression is way too low to run--but what is blowing, by chance? Any chance of getting photos of the bores and the head when the head comes off?
When the injector spray patterns get poor, they 'dribble', and this can land a relatively cool liquid right on the hot GP and cause the tip to crack and eventually burn off. Quite common actually.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
It also happens with petroleum diesel and biodiesel, too. Less frequent with petro (but many more users of this fuel so incidence counts are high), more frequent rate with bio, much higher rate with VO.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yep, any time the injector has a flakey spray pattern bad things can happen. It is just that it is about 1000 times more likely for a bad injector with WVO use than it is with proper diesel fuel.
 
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