Best water pump?

TornadoRed

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brnsgrbr said:
Ah man. That is the last thing I want to hear before I install my Laso tomorrow along with the TB upgrade kit I just bought from Diesel Geek.
If there was a bad batch of Laso pumps in 2006, what makes you think they were still making flawed ones in 2009?
 

JettaDrvr

Well-known member
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TN
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2000 Jetta GLS TDI
Laso Brass. Definitely no Graf as I have seen too many failures on other VWs.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Just found a bad Laso pump on a 2002 ALH that I installed a full TB kit on 60K miles ago... 80K to 140K.

It was the shaft bearing... Totally shot, the impeller was machining itself against the block internally and was supporting the shaft, probably saved the TB from jumping time. It wasn't all that loud interestingly, I noticed it right away but I could imagine someone missing it... On a positive note, it was still maintaining an OK seal considering how much play the shaft had.
 

TornadoRed

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jollyGreenGiant said:
Just found a bad Laso pump on a 2002 ALH that I installed a full TB kit on 60K miles ago... 80K to 140K.
What was the approximate date when you installed that Laso pump? Earlier in this thread there was talk of a bad batch.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Yeah, it was back in late 2006 or early 2007, I'd have to look up the record and I'm on the wrong computer to do so right now.
 

Sip'n Diesel

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I've got ~73,000 miles on a Laso installed mid '08... no issues AFAIK :)

subscribed to this thread - will try to remember to post here after checking the WP for abnormalities during TB maintenance sometime in the next 4-6 months
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
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20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
All I'm installing now are Graf units.
 

turbocharged798

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Got approx. 50,000 miles on the pump that was included in the tdiparts kit and it has been holding up great.(I think it's a Graf?)

Just checked on the timing belt yesterday and it looked like new.
 

Franko6

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Sw Missouri
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Jetta, 99, Silver`
I've got a lot of Grafs out there and two leakers. But both were also very long in the tooth. I've seen the Saleri and what it is NOT is PLASTIC... it's an epoxy resin. The claim is that they are used on some of the exotic Italian vehicles, which have very high rpms and are quick revving. Both would be indicative of fatigue for the pump impeller and the bearing, but I don't have any history for life expectancy for anything except what I've personally used. None of the companies give failure or life expectancy reports.

I do know that all the castings between the plastic, resin, and the brass impellers are very fine. However, I don't have any worries that there is a tremendous advantage having a very smooth impeller. I don't thinkVW has undersized the w.p., as there aren't many issues even in very hot climates with any choice of w.p.

As someone said, I abhor the Meyle stuff, most particularly any o their products with a sealed bearing.

I only know that all w.p.'s have a failure rate. They are supposed to not fail for 100k. I have not had a Hepu seal fail, but others have. I might also note, despite the number of failures of the OEM plastic impeller, they go in every single vehicle and we really only see comparatively few fail. Those get loudly advertised. I've taken out a lot of perfectly good ones and also my share of leakers that were OEM... Only a few OEM broken impellers.

Beside avoiding the obvious bad choice, Meyle, keeping your eye on the water level and checking for possible leaks is the thing to do. Use what you are comfortable with. I can't guarantee that any company always makes a perfect one.
 
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PDJetta

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'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
The original (plastic/resin impeller) water pump I removed from my '04, at 100,000 miles, during my timing belt service looked fine in every way. No leaks, smooth operation and nice and tight. No cracked or loose impeller either. It was subjected to alot of stop and go rush hour driving too.

--Nate
 

tditom

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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
i just received a Graf wp with the cast metal impeller and the impeller vanes surfaces are very rough. I could imagine serious cavitation with this. i will try to post a pic.

I guess i'm not worried about the cavitation eating all the way thru the impellers, but the thought of the little metal bits floating around in my cooling system makes me a bit uncomfortable :(

any advice?
 

jasonTDI

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Yeah, don't worry about it. Its a non issue. I've looked at many removed and no wear was evident.
 

tditom

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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
here are the photos of the new Graf pump showing the areas of my concern:
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at this point i do not feel very comfortable installing it. i will be talking to the vendor about a refund/replacement and using a brass/resin unit. :(

i would like further opinions though. thanks in advance for any input. jasontdi- do you think this will be OK?
 

TornadoRed

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Tom, you don't need advice from anyone else, you already know what to do with this POS. How did it get past even a rudimentary quality control check?
 

jasonTDI

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That one is pretty bad. I'll admit that. Never seen one like that.
 

tditom

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thanks for your input, guys. the vendor is sending a replacement unit that he personally inspected.

hopefully all of the on-line vendors will begin inspecting the Graf pumps before shipping them out. seems to be a factory QC issue.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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I know you're all going to jump on me but I personally believe that this pump would have provided adequate performance. What's the worst that'll happen, the engine heats up faster and the T-Stat opens earlier? Once the radiator is in the loop, you need a lot of extra BTU's to go over the system BTU removal capacity. This casting issue isn't going to effect it much. I'm unable to predict numerically any of this of course but my gut and experience tells me that this would be just fine in service.

Yes it might deposit a few little ferrous tidbits into the block over time but I can assure you over 100K miles there's plenty of little tidbits already in the cooling system loop anyways...

Would I install this on my daily driver, probably. Would I install this on a dedicated race car that's at full load for hours on end? Probably not.

I did a quick search on shrouded impellers and the effects of poor blade surfacing on a twisted vane design and didn't come up with much, but then again I only spent about 2 minutes before something else grabbed my attention...
 
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turbocharged798

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Let me see:

Laso pumps are now no good.
Graf pumps have QC issues.
OEM plastic pumps are trash.

Uhm...that doesn't leave a lot of choices now, does it? Like I said, I have had no issues with my graf. Drive more, worry less.
 

tditom

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turbocharged798 said:
Let me see:

Laso pumps are now no good.
Graf pumps have QC issues.
OEM plastic pumps are trash.

Uhm...that doesn't leave a lot of choices now, does it? Like I said, I have had no issues with my graf. Drive more, worry less.
are you suggesting that i should go ahead and use the pump pictured above?
 

Herm TDI

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phaser said:
How long have you been installing these?

Any failures?

Are these available for the BEW engine?

.
I started using the GEBA pumps over a year ago. So far, not a single problem.
I can't get the GEBA for the BEW but the Saleri pump is on the market.
 

tditom

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Jackson, MI
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formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
i did my timing belt this past weekend after receiving the replacement Graf pump. Here are some photos i took of that before installation:
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Here is the Laso pump that had been in operation for the last 100089 miles:
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Finally, here are some shots of the OE pump that was in operation for the first 155K mi on this car (what can i say- i'm a packrat :eek:):
[/IMG]
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after seeing the variation from one to the next, and noting the differences in finish and design between the three, i'm inclined to look for the resin Saleri unit for the next belt job i perform. If that is not available i will be looking for a brass unit. I would not buy another Graf. I don't trust their QC at all.

i found a Saleri 'plastic' unit here for $60: http://www.drivewire.com/vehicle/volkswagen-golf/water-pump/
 

GgOTi

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So is the the timing belt kit from DG still using the Laso brass impeller water pumps? Their website says it is still a brass impeller, but have they simply not updated it?
 
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