Billshire
Well-known member
Hello All!
It's my first post here since I've joined, and I have to just say how much I appreciate the forums here. Invaluable heaps of knowledge. This forum pushed me over the fence and decide to purchase an 03 Silver GLS TDI Jetta Wagon 01M ALH (for now); what a great car! I've been doing all sorts of normal maintenance to it, air filters, snow screen cleaned, tire pressure @ 40 PSI all around, head lights replaced, all glow plugs replaced, hammer modded and I am about to change the oil and replace the timing belt (I have all the tools and feel confident after reading the MkIV timing belt change PDF twice).
What I have been searching this forum to resolve is my issue starting. After I replaced the glow plugs, I was having great starts while it was cold out. One, maybe two seconds of cranking and it was off and running. Since it has gotten warm out, I have been experiencing longer starts, cranking for up to five seconds or sometimes more before ignition.
Now I have tried to search and get an answer, and I have found this _very_ long thread on warm start issues:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=134622
I have read the initial 60 or so posts and the last 50 or so posts of this thread, I hope that I do not need to get a Malone tune for this car to redo the temperature-mapping-fuel-injection relationship... I don't believe I should need to because of the fact that I have an 03 and supposedly the hot-start map has been fixed in the cars that year.
I have pulled the starter and lubricated all the internals, reinstalled and the engine now turns over at almost 400 RPM while cranking. I also have a new battery, a group 94R that does a great job of turning the starter even when its cold.
I have replaced the 109 relay in hopes that this was some sort of failing relay issue, to no avail. The hard start persists.
I have also bled the fuel system with a Mitvac type of vacuum pump, and loosened the nuts where the injector lines meet the injectors while starting to try and evacuate any air from those lines.
I have (hopefully) ruled out an alternator issue, I see 14.2 - 14.35 volts across the battery terminals regardless of RPM. The generator light comes on when I turn the key and goes out after starting the engine.
I have no Check Engine Light and i can see no codes with a third party cable and VCDS Lite.
VCDS Lite reported 315-360 RPM while cranking before start.
I have disconnected the MAF and it makes no difference - although something to note here would be that in VCDS Lite I see a pretty good difference in requested MAF and and Actual MAF, with the Actual being ~60 higher than Requested at idle, once the car is running.
EGR looks clean, no sooty build up, although it is oily on the outside.
Could poor compression cause these starting issues?
I am almost at a loss here but have a few ideas I would like to put forth so that the more knowledgeable minds here may pick them apart or point me in the right direction...
I know I have to do an oil change, and I will have to change the timing belt in the next thousand miles or so. I also know that my thermostat needs to be replaced, dash reads 190 F after half an hour of zippy driving and a meat thermometer in the G12 reservoir tank shows 178 - 180 F
I also have to tackle the problem of my radiator fans not turning, could that be related?
I also have a small hole in the exhaust pipe about 3 feet after the catalytic converter, could this be causing the starting problem?
I jumpered 12v to the fuel cutoff solenoid and it immediately clicked.
I also just replaced the three gaskets on the injection pump, the two gaskets on the Quantity Adjuster and the one round gasket on the head unit where the fuel lines come out. Interestingly, after putting everything back together, the car fired right up. not even a whole second of cranking. It promptly decided to run away and I had to kill the engine and take the IP apart and make sure the guide post was correctly seated in the quantity adjuster sliding washer bit. After correcting that, the car started perfectly and idled find, did the hammer mod trick to get the IQ right at 3. After shutting the car off and waiting a while, it took a few seconds of cranking to start. It has taken increasingly longer to start since then, until today I had a no start situation. I tried to prime the IP and get it started to no avail. after much fiddling around with the IP, bleeding the system, priming the IP and bleeding the lines from the IP to the injectors I stil have a no start situation.
I pulled the fuel sending unit and it was coated with junk in the bottom. I thoroughly cleaned it and inspected the fuel sending column. There was no junk in there and i can pull fuel to the filter with < 3 in/hg vacuum. I can pull fuel through the filter with < 3 in/hg vacuum. I decided to not drill out the fuel sending unit until I asked for advice here.
Additionally, I noticed my glow plugs are not getting 12 V when the glow plug light comes on. It has been fairly warm out, 55-60 F, so I do not think that they should need to come on. I have, however, disconnected the coolant temperature sensor and still do not get 12v at the harness or the connector in the electrical column. I have accidentally started the car with the glow plug circuit disconnected, I don't believe that is the root of the issue, but this whole thing has been driving me crazy. I do not have a tool to pull the wipers so I can't quite get to the relay yet. I am planning on inspecting the wires going to the relay and checking the wires going to the ECU while I am in there.
Any help would be greatly appreciated; especially if you have read this whole long winded post. If I can't get this sorted out myself I feel I should take the car to Ed Karpinsky in Syracuse NY from the Trusted Mechanics list. Any suggestions are greatly welcomed.
Thanks All,
Will,
Rochester, NY
It's my first post here since I've joined, and I have to just say how much I appreciate the forums here. Invaluable heaps of knowledge. This forum pushed me over the fence and decide to purchase an 03 Silver GLS TDI Jetta Wagon 01M ALH (for now); what a great car! I've been doing all sorts of normal maintenance to it, air filters, snow screen cleaned, tire pressure @ 40 PSI all around, head lights replaced, all glow plugs replaced, hammer modded and I am about to change the oil and replace the timing belt (I have all the tools and feel confident after reading the MkIV timing belt change PDF twice).
What I have been searching this forum to resolve is my issue starting. After I replaced the glow plugs, I was having great starts while it was cold out. One, maybe two seconds of cranking and it was off and running. Since it has gotten warm out, I have been experiencing longer starts, cranking for up to five seconds or sometimes more before ignition.
Now I have tried to search and get an answer, and I have found this _very_ long thread on warm start issues:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=134622
I have read the initial 60 or so posts and the last 50 or so posts of this thread, I hope that I do not need to get a Malone tune for this car to redo the temperature-mapping-fuel-injection relationship... I don't believe I should need to because of the fact that I have an 03 and supposedly the hot-start map has been fixed in the cars that year.
I have pulled the starter and lubricated all the internals, reinstalled and the engine now turns over at almost 400 RPM while cranking. I also have a new battery, a group 94R that does a great job of turning the starter even when its cold.
I have replaced the 109 relay in hopes that this was some sort of failing relay issue, to no avail. The hard start persists.
I have also bled the fuel system with a Mitvac type of vacuum pump, and loosened the nuts where the injector lines meet the injectors while starting to try and evacuate any air from those lines.
I have (hopefully) ruled out an alternator issue, I see 14.2 - 14.35 volts across the battery terminals regardless of RPM. The generator light comes on when I turn the key and goes out after starting the engine.
I have no Check Engine Light and i can see no codes with a third party cable and VCDS Lite.
VCDS Lite reported 315-360 RPM while cranking before start.
I have disconnected the MAF and it makes no difference - although something to note here would be that in VCDS Lite I see a pretty good difference in requested MAF and and Actual MAF, with the Actual being ~60 higher than Requested at idle, once the car is running.
EGR looks clean, no sooty build up, although it is oily on the outside.
Could poor compression cause these starting issues?
I am almost at a loss here but have a few ideas I would like to put forth so that the more knowledgeable minds here may pick them apart or point me in the right direction...
I know I have to do an oil change, and I will have to change the timing belt in the next thousand miles or so. I also know that my thermostat needs to be replaced, dash reads 190 F after half an hour of zippy driving and a meat thermometer in the G12 reservoir tank shows 178 - 180 F
I also have to tackle the problem of my radiator fans not turning, could that be related?
I also have a small hole in the exhaust pipe about 3 feet after the catalytic converter, could this be causing the starting problem?
I jumpered 12v to the fuel cutoff solenoid and it immediately clicked.
I also just replaced the three gaskets on the injection pump, the two gaskets on the Quantity Adjuster and the one round gasket on the head unit where the fuel lines come out. Interestingly, after putting everything back together, the car fired right up. not even a whole second of cranking. It promptly decided to run away and I had to kill the engine and take the IP apart and make sure the guide post was correctly seated in the quantity adjuster sliding washer bit. After correcting that, the car started perfectly and idled find, did the hammer mod trick to get the IQ right at 3. After shutting the car off and waiting a while, it took a few seconds of cranking to start. It has taken increasingly longer to start since then, until today I had a no start situation. I tried to prime the IP and get it started to no avail. after much fiddling around with the IP, bleeding the system, priming the IP and bleeding the lines from the IP to the injectors I stil have a no start situation.
I pulled the fuel sending unit and it was coated with junk in the bottom. I thoroughly cleaned it and inspected the fuel sending column. There was no junk in there and i can pull fuel to the filter with < 3 in/hg vacuum. I can pull fuel through the filter with < 3 in/hg vacuum. I decided to not drill out the fuel sending unit until I asked for advice here.
Additionally, I noticed my glow plugs are not getting 12 V when the glow plug light comes on. It has been fairly warm out, 55-60 F, so I do not think that they should need to come on. I have, however, disconnected the coolant temperature sensor and still do not get 12v at the harness or the connector in the electrical column. I have accidentally started the car with the glow plug circuit disconnected, I don't believe that is the root of the issue, but this whole thing has been driving me crazy. I do not have a tool to pull the wipers so I can't quite get to the relay yet. I am planning on inspecting the wires going to the relay and checking the wires going to the ECU while I am in there.
Any help would be greatly appreciated; especially if you have read this whole long winded post. If I can't get this sorted out myself I feel I should take the car to Ed Karpinsky in Syracuse NY from the Trusted Mechanics list. Any suggestions are greatly welcomed.
Thanks All,
Will,
Rochester, NY