Chicago 2009 TDI Owners: Non-Biodiesel Support Group

PalosParked

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Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Jetta09Chicago and Thunderstruck
Hello again....I kinda lost touch with you and this topic after the ULSD station locations thread. I didn't notice this new thread until now.
Yes, I'd like to help out.
Thunderstruck...I'm still using the BP and Ogden and Main, Downers Grove. The BP (Whiting) fuel engineer did convince me not to worry about condensation at the D.G. filling station. I also used some winterized premium I found at the Fullers in Hinsdale (pricey but full service indulgence on a cold winter's day). And the Speedway 898 W Ogden D.G. down the road from the BP is selling the D2.
Back in January when we were all fired up on the ULSD and B11 issue, I contacted my VW dealership to see where the dealership was buying us our first fill up. Turns out my first fill was B11 from Thorntons. So, for me B5 or B11, I kinda think I'm covered by somebody's warranty since then.
Let me share with you how one of my (e-mail) conversations with my dealership went. It's a little long and redundant to this post but it's eaier for me to just cut and paste. Take from it what you will.
...I agree that 1 tank of B11 (in an emergency) should be no big deal and probably unavoidable at times.
...I realize that Thorntons is convenient but it probably would be better for a dealer to put the D#2 (no bio, especially not B11)) in there.
...I'm not mad....
...But...I feel that we are partners in this and need to work together for all kinds of reasons.
...Let me offer you the following info to give to other 2009 TDI owners who start freaking out about fuel.
...It's because at most service stations the attendants are clueless about what they are selling. Especially for the winterized stuff. If the pumps are not marked (or you don't look to see the labels) it can be a problem.
...Yes, ...expressway stations are usually good choices. All the BP's in Indiana carry winterized Diesel #2 (Atlas Oil Co. Taylor MI owns them)
...I found a diesel fuel distributor (http://texor.com/) is supplying winterized (-15F) Diesel #2 treated with diesel #1 (70/30 blend) to a Marathon at 16643 S Halsted, Harvey They also supply Fullers in Hinsdale with winterized premium D#2. (D1 and D2 blend)
...I alos learned that Distributor, Atlas Oil Co, http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=32283just purchased 57 BP stations on the south and east side. They sell cold flow BP D#2 refined in Whiting. Their closest stations (so far) are; BP, 9545 191st St, Mokena, or BP, 16 E Lincoln, Frankfort. They (Atlas) have big eyes on expansion into the Chicagoland area..That would really help.
...And a friend (Jetta09Chicago) told me that Meijer stores are selling winterized premium D#2.
...Furthermore, a diesel fuel engineer at BP told me that summer diesel from Whiting is cloud rated to +15F. Cold flow winterized is -15F to -20F..
He (BP diesel fuel engineer) also told me that the diesel would float on the water. Diesel does not absorb the water. And the pump fuel suction tube rests at least 8 inches above the bottom of the tank. Only way you'd get water is if something else was wrong with the tank. He went on to say that Powerservice white bottle type stuff will only reduce the cloud point by an additional 10degrees so it's better to buy the winterized fuel.
He also told me that Bio blend fuel up to 5% can be called D#2 with no additional label on the tank (except ULSD of course).
Anything over 5% needs to be clearly labeled as Biofuel. There's no sales tax (6.25%) on bio blends above 10%, Hence the big deal on B11 around here.
Jetta09Chicago, Thank you for carrying on and creating a post location for us to list the (D2)stations as we find them.
 

Sip'n Diesel

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Apr 13, 2008
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San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
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2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
o rly, premium?

brilliant! now we need to find out some cetane ratings. I won't believe any claim of "premium" diesel until I see some convincing proof, or if my car runs noticeably better on it:)

I want 49+ cetane:cool:

when did Fuller's have winterized diesel? I'm assuming this was awhile ago, they can't still have winterized stuff can they?

what do they have right now? non-winterized "premium"? what is the current price per gallon? I paid $2.299 last time I topped-off @ a BP. I would be very interested in running a couple tanks of any alleged premium:)
 

PalosParked

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Palos Park, IL
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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Fullers premium D2

Sip'n,
I was in to Fullers only once (2/3/09- and I'm ashamed to say what I paid. It was outrageou$$). It was really cold out and because the D#2 in my car (BP-Ogden and Main) wasn't winterized I splurged on the 'good stuff' to keep me protected. I had called the distributor (got the name off a tanker truck, Texor Petrolium) and spoke to a guy named Arnie. He said that Fullers was not a high volume but that they had recently filled his tank with D1-D2 blend I mentioned. (I didn't think D1 was even available to us until he told me.) At the time I was more concerned with getting non bio diesel and the cloud or gel rating and Arnie and I talked mostly on this subject. They seem pretty open about describing what and to whom they are selling diesel to. You could give them a call to see if they provide the 'premium blend' and the cetane rating. (my winter mpg was down so I can't say I ran any better or worse on it.)

Texor Petroleum Company
3340 South Harlem Avenue
Riverside, Illinois 60546

708-447-1999 Main
708-447-1047 Fax

E-mail to: info@texor.com
 
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Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
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2009 Jetta TDI
Hi, PalosParked . . . I am glad to keep this thread going for us 2009 owners. Thanks so much for your new stations which I will add to the master list on Page 1.
 
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Thunderstruck

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Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
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2015 GTI SE 6M
Good to see the thread is still alive. If I ever get a chance I'll check out Speedway on Touhy and the new Shell on 83@Higgins and see what their pumps say. I'll probably leave the car parked until the weekend rolls around and be doing the 2 wheeled thing since the weather has finally gotten nice.
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Hi Sip'n...I am glad you're with us here. While I originally intended to focus on the non-biodiesel issue, it is also helpful to get input on the availability of "premium" diesel locations. As a happy TDI newbie, I want to take great care of my new baby!
 

Sip'n Diesel

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San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
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2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
Jetta09Chicago said:
Hi Sip'n...I am glad you're with us here. While I originally intended to focus on the non-biodiesel issue, it is also helpful to get input on the availability of "premium" diesel locations. As a happy TDI newbie, I want to take great care of my new baby!
darn tootin', feed your baby only the best! besides premium, I am interested in any non-biodiesel because I just want to know what I'm pumping at any given time/location. this knowledge would be useful if my injection pump starts to leak, for example. it could also explain sudden increases/decreases in tank-averaged fuel economy, etc. I also want to know so I can decide whether or not to use an additive. the list goes on and on...

the bottom line for me is: there is (and has been) a LAW that requires these "jobber's" (I like that term, because that's all they are anyways:rolleyes::D) to comply with... it's not even a complicated law either... just put a friggin' sticker on there! geez... I think if I had any more free time I would be driving around looking for stations who are not in compliance and notifying the Dept. of Weights n' Measures or whatever the appropriate agency is:eek: darn, now I have another hobby:D!

BTW - I don't know about the 2009s, but I know my car was designed to run on 49+ cetane:cool:
 

pogopop77

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Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Location
Waldorf, MD
TDI
2009 BMW 335d
Hi all, don't mean to spam (I already started this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245861), but this thread appears to be very relevant. I'm interested in building a map of addresses/information about stations that you frequent that offer premium grade diesel. I saw a few lists of stations posted earlier, but I only want to add stations that folks on this forum use personally. Let me know your favorite place to fill up!
 

Thunderstruck

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Location
Chicago
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2015 GTI SE 6M
Just for grins I topped off this weekend at the new Shell at 83 and Higgins, and neither the pump or receipt said anything about bio content that I could see. I was happy, after a day of rolling around in the burbs I got the fuel economy display up to 48.2 MPG when I filled. Dropped down to 47.1 by the time I got home, but I can't complain.
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Premium Non-Biodiesel Stations

I'm glad this thread is useful to 2009 and pre-2009 owners alike, as well folks outside Chicagoland! It would be great to get more listings of premium petrodiesel stations.

I am now updating the master list to add a notation where premium petrodiesel was confirmed. (In scouring throught the messages so far, we have identified one station in Winnetka and one in Hinsdale.)

Please let's try to be judicious when we use the term "premium." It would be best to limit "premium" to describe where a supplier has documented standards (e.g,. higher cetane ratings). However, let's not fall prey to marketing hyperbole when the standards are not documented. :cool:
 

Sip'n Diesel

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... and we must also realize that if a given station has (confirmed) premium at this time, they may not have the same blend the next time their tanks are filled. if we can find a station who consistently offers premium diesel to consumers, perhaps they could automatically go to the top of the list:)

BTW - this is all complicated due to the marketing hype surrounding fuel quality. as we know, many stations claim "premium" diesel just because they have a certain additive package and/or bio-diesel blend. so, if we find some premium we should try to get as much info as possible. this could be problematic, for example: I find a station with a 49 cetane rating (confirmed via bill of lading or correspondence with the distributor.) OK. great. well, oops it is 49 cetane but it's also B11. d'oh! maybe that's good for me, but not necessarily good for '09 TDIs.

also, there is the matter of cetane rating versus index. I forget which is which but this is what I know: say D2 from the refinery is X cetane, well we all know that a small (B2?) bio-diesel blend increases the quality (cetane) of the fuel. additive packages also increase quality (cetane.) so, we would want to know before/after numbers, etc

question: what should our benchmark for premium be? 46 cetane? 47 cetane? 48 cetane? etc... would I be "greedy" if I said the minimum benchmark for "premium" should be 49 cetane? it is what my TDI was designed/engineered to run on afterall:cool:

FWIW - the gentleman with the 335d in Maryland said his bimmer calls for 51 cetane:eek: SHIZE

edit: I'm trying to find a specific thread I read many moons ago. it is basically "cetane rating versus index"
this is all I got so far, from the FAQ:
7) Which of the following is false about the cetane rating of a fuel? a) The cetane index is a calculated value using the ASTM mid boiling point and API gravity. b) Aromatic (i.e. benzene-containing) compounds as a rule have lower cetane numbers than liquid paraffinic (i.e. saturated alkyl) hydrocarbons. c) A direct relationship is observed between a fuel's cetane rating and its energy of combustion. d) A correlation is observed between a fuel's cetane rating and its volatility and specific weight.
Cetane - Diesel fuel is rated in cetane number (roughly analogous to gasoline octane). The common cetane rating is 40 to 45 in North America. A higher cetane rating number indicates a "premium" grade which is not required for the Volkswagen TDi. The use of a higher cetane fuel may increase performance and mileage, but generally costs more per gallon. Decide for yourself if the cost increase is offset by improvements in performance and mileage.
Cetane Number/Cetane Index Cetane number is a relative measure of the interval between the beginning of injection and autoignition of the fuel. The higher the number, the shorter the delay interval. Fuels with low Cetane Numbers will cause hard starting, rough operation, noise and exhaust smoke. Current commercial fuel cetane requirements may not adequately address these customer satisfaction issues. Generally, diesel engines will operate better on fuels with cetane numbers above 50 compared to fuels with cetane numbers of the national average of approximately 45.
Cetane number may be increased through the refining process or the blending of combustion ignition improving additives by fuel suppliers.
Cetane index is an approximation of fuel ignition quality through measurement of distillation range and specific gravity. It is not affected by the use of combustion improver additives; therefore it produces an indication of the base cetane number of the fuel. http://www.tdiclub.com/articles/Diesel_Fuel_Guidlines/
 
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Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Shell Update--NOT Exclusively Petrodiesel

This is an update to a previous posting dated 4/7/09 regarding Shell diesel in the Chicago area. At that time, Shell's corporate office claimed that all of their Chicago diesel was petrodiesel. Actually I have found that some Shell stations in this area do in fact sell biodiesel.

On 5/8/09 I visited the new Shell at 1805 East Oakton Street in Elk Grove Village. Their diesel pump has a sticker indicating a 6-20% biodiesel blend. Thus, 2009 owners cannot count on Shell being petrodiesel chain-wide.

On the master list, I have removed the link to Shell's station finder. Instead, we will need to list Shell's confirmed petrodiesel locations on a station-by-station basis. Thanks for any suggestions!
 

PalosParked

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Location
Palos Park, IL
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2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
Jetta09....I visited the Speedway 6241 S Cass, Westmont..Price$2.259 but the pump is clearly marked bioblend 6 to 20%.
Shell ,210 E Ogden, Hinsdale is selling D2. Price April 28 was $2.299. Super clean and fast pumps clearly marked as diesel...receipt D2.
I'm still looking for that high cetane-premium stuff for Sip'n:cool:
 

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
Thanks for that PalosParked. Ogden/Main is about 5 minutes from my office and I was wondering where I was going to fill with the '09 now. It's out of the way for on the way home fillups, but until we get confirmation on other B0-B5 stations, this will be it.

With the '03 I just used to fill up at the Thorntons by 63rd and 355. I also used to rely on the on the Thorntons that was at the end of the block by my house in west Joliet, ultra convienent however they are in the B5-20% club.

I wonder where Pugi filled up my car when I bought it? They're by the Ogden/355/88 CF.
 

PalosParked

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Good and Bad news..D2 at BP, Ogden and Main, Downers Grove

Thanks for that PalosParked. Ogden/Main is about 5 minutes from my office and I was wondering where I was going to fill with the '09 now
dzcad90, I went by the BP (in Downers) yesterday for a fill up. The credit card reader at the diesel pump is now broken and you are supposed to prepay inside. I asked them to reset the pump and I would pay inside with my credit card when I was done with my fill and we knew how much it took. All I got was a blank stare..no reset (BTW I asked twice). The D2 price is $$2.799 and I don't play that prepay routine very well. End result..They lost my business. ....And I just switched to a BP credit card :( Oh well.
I left the BP and went to the Shell at Ogden & York in Hinsdale for the fill. Price now $2.549. It's an owner operated (family) independant Shell. Much cleaner and better run than the BP.
My God have I become finicky??? ;)
BTW..I was at a Shell, 12311 S Archer, Lemont The Shell locator doesn't show diesel for them. But they have a diesel pump forD2. This is another independantly owned Shell station. I contacted their distributor http://www.parentpetroleum.com/home.asp (630-584-2505) who said that they would put together a list of other local D2 stations that they supply. (Sip'n, I did ask them to include any info on any premium - high cetane fuel that they supply.)
I do have some good news!...I found out that Atlas Oil Co just bought 33 more stations in the SW Chicago, NW Indianna area (I think 100+ now). And the BP at Ogden and Cass is one of them! They take over later this month so lets watch for some improvements there. Atlas gets it's D2 from BP Whiting facility. I asked them for a list of all their stations in the Chicago area that will supply diesel. I will let you know how they respond. www.atlasoil.com
 
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N8116B

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Joined
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Location
NW Suburbs of Chicago, Il.
TDI
2009 Jetta
I did not see this one listed yet.

Thornton's
Cary, IL
800 NW Hwy
At the corner of NW Hwy and Three Oaks Road.
They carry ULSD

2 pumps, one on each end of all the islands and it is the smaller nozzle that fits into the Jetta filler just fine.
 
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SoBeItJetta

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Location
Downers Grove, IL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
PalosParked, thanks for posting about two things I've been meaning to get around to mentioning here! I had the exact same experience at the Downers/Ogden BP a few weeks ago - and I also left without any fuel. Came home and fired off an email to BP at their corporate site. Reponse so far? Crickets. Apparently getting the credit card reader fixed is a REALLY low priority, since my run-in with them was at least 3-4 weeks ago, if not more.
I've been using the Lemont Shell station you mentioned pretty regularly since then, as it's on my way to work in Orland Park. Glad you could verify that it's D2 - I figured it probably was, since there were no bio stickers on the pumps and that station just re-opened as a Shell not too long ago. (it was previously a BP). So far, I really like going there - the diesel shares a pump with regular gas AND you can actually use your credit card at the pump! Hooray! I think one of these days I will need to actually go inside and thank them for that!
 

PalosParked

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Poor service at BP in Downers Grove, IL

SoBeItJetta, You're welcome. Good to know that a I'm not the lone ranger in not playing well with "pay first pumps'. I'm still emailing back and forth with the Atlas Oil Co district manager. He has said that he would try to help provide us with a listing of their Atlas owned, Chicago area service stations selling D2. An Atlas rep in Granger, Indianna told me that they don't officially 'take over' the BP in DG until (I think she said) June 16th. The service station will then be managed by a third party- supposedly top notch. I have supplied the district manager with a link to this thread so that he could see what we are all about. I'll let you know when he can give us more news.
 

Thunderstruck

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Location
Chicago
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2015 GTI SE 6M
Whiting is where the premium diesel used to be made. The BP at York and Butterfield got their price for diesel mentioned on chicagogasprices a couple of weeks ago, and they were at 2.75 while the rest of the stations I go to were at 2.39. It might be good, but it's not that good.
 

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
PalosParked said:
dzcad90, I went by the BP (in Downers) yesterday for a fill up. The credit card reader at the diesel pump is now broken and you are supposed to prepay inside. I asked them to reset the pump and I would pay inside with my credit card when I was done with my fill and we knew how much it took. All I got was a blank stare..no reset (BTW I asked twice). The D2 price is $$2.799 and I don't play that prepay routine very well. End result..They lost my business. ....And I just switched to a BP credit card :( Oh well.
PP: Yeah, I went there right after memorial day and had the same experience. I had a gift card that I wanted to finish off , so I stuck my gift card in and it took about 5 minutes to authorize. The whole pump was pretty much running in 8088 mode, and I never did get a receipt out of it. I then looked around and most of the other pumps had stickers over the CC reader.

It's still my standby if I need fuel and I'm heading north. The Mobil on 83 right north of I-55 on the east side of the road is also a good choice. I drove around for about 30 minutes one afternoon looking for a pure D2 station, and this is the closest thing I found south of my office.

We still gotta schedule a Chicago area GTG!
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Thanks Everyone!

Thanks for all your recent posts in keeping this thread alive! I am continuing to update the master list on Page 1 with your recent contributions. Please keep your suggestions coming.

With the exception of Meijer, it appears there are no other chain-wide sources of petrodiesel. Rather, D2 is available only at certain specific BP, Fuller's, Marathon, Mobil, Shell, Speedway and Thornton's stations.

Hopefully this grass-roots listing will be even more helpful as we expand it. I've noticed that we've listed a number of suburbs, but it would be great if we could get some confirmed D2 stations in the City of Chicago.
 

BTL

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'Burbs of Chicago
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2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
There is also a Meijer in Oswego on Rt. 34 and about Douglass road. I am assuming that is Petro. I will be checking it out soon.
 

BTL

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Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
I should also add that I am quite concerned at the lack of petro that is seemingly available. I am heading down to Florida soon for vacation, so I am guessing I will have fewer issues.

I have a Speedway, Thorntons, Shell, Mobil, and BP by my house. I need to scout them and find out who sells petro. Seems to be a shot in the dark.
 
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PalosParked

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Sip'n....Did I get your attention?



Sip'n ...Just go south on Dixie Highway. When you get to the end of the road keep going. When you pass Miller's 2nd cousin's old barn take a right. Go 20 minutes and watch for Pererson's bar and hunt club. Jimmy's will be there on your right. ....enjoy! (cetane at your own risk) :D

All kidding aside...Jimmy's is at 260 N Cass Ave(47th and Cass), Westmont, IL. 630-969-2323 Owner (Jimmy of course) said that he has high turnover even at $3.259 per gallon. Won't talk cetane but says that he orders it from Citgo distributor as premium grade. Says try it and see if don't agree..more mileage, less smoke, better engine life. Didn't reveal distributor name.

 

Thunderstruck

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Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
3.25?? Guess I won't complain about 2.49 up in these parts. It would be interesting to know what other stations get Premium from his distributor. If you ever see a tanker truck there, see if you can find out.
 

PalosParked

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Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
'remium' diesel ...oops freudian slip

Thunderstruck.. will do and have been.
District mgr of Atlas Oil called me this afternoon. They take over the BP (Ogden and Main) next week. Nice guy and knows his stuff. He is going to get back to me which of their stations have diesel tanks. They are buying the stations and then selling them to managers. Anyone interested?
 

Jetta09Chicago

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Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Location
Chicago, IL (NW Suburbs)
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
Hi everyone . . . Some news and notes . . .

Possible Biodiesel Solution for 2009+ Owners. I just came across a new thread that might be of interest: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=249514. Apparently Chevron Oronite has developed a new product called Oronite Lubricating Oil Additive (OLOA) that is intended to address the adverse effects of biodiesel. I have contacted Oronite to ask if they are pursuing approval of OLOA by Volkswagen. It would be interesting to see if VWoA has comments on this product.

My First Premium Diesel Tank! Last weekend I took my first out-of-state road trip and came across the elusive Amoco Premier Diesel at a BP station in South Haven, Michigan. Interestingly the APD was offered in ULSD at a dual pump that also dispensed non-premium LSD ($0.10/gallon difference). I couldn't resist giving it a whirl! Since that fill-up I have had great fuel economy, but it's difficult to isolate the effect of premium diesel vs. primarily highway driving due to the road trip.

Thanks so much for the recent additions and deletions to our list. I especially like the idea of contacting diesel distributors because they are the source! It would be great to merge the lists from several distributors.
 
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