Rough idle question, 2005 Passat TDI

lynnejohn

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2010 Jetta TDI
I have the log file, now what? It is from startup to shutdown on my morning commute (35 minutes.) Should I plot it on a graph for say the first 5 minutes?
 

thundershorts

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why not just look at the eng temp to see if its erratic or consistent. that may rule out the temp sensor. you also might, with engine idling, rap the egr valve with a hammer handle to see if it comes unstuck, smoothing out the idle. I suppose you still haven't removed it to clean.
 

lynnejohn

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why not just look at the eng temp to see if its erratic or consistent. that may rule out the temp sensor. you also might, with engine idling, rap the egr valve with a hammer handle to see if it comes unstuck, smoothing out the idle. I suppose you still haven't removed it to clean.
It was cleaned by hevster1 when my BSM kit was put in about 5000 miles ago. I could recheck it. As far as the engine temp it was taken as Coolant - Temperature (G62) ranging from 21.6 at startup to low 70' - low 80's on highway:



 
Last edited:

thundershorts

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Its too bad you don't have another one known good you could change it to see if its the valve malfunctioning. temps seem normal. It does appear that as soon as the egr shows open, your engine smooths out during warmup
 

lynnejohn

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At startup the EGR is at 100.6 for 4 seconds

Time °C Time /min MAF spec MAF act EGR
0.01 21.6 0.17 0 650 0 100.6
0.33 21.6 0.51 0 650 0 100.6
0.69 21.6 0.86 0 650 0 100.6
1.02 21.6 1.2 0 650 0 100.6
1.38 21.6 1.55 0 650 0 100.6
1.73 21.6 1.9 0 650 0 100.6
2.07 21.6 2.24 0 650 0 100.6
2.42 21.6 2.58 0 650 0 100.6
2.75 21.6 2.94 0 650 0 100.6
3.1 21.6 3.27 0 650 0 100.6
3.45 21.6 3.63 0 650 0 100.6
3.81 21.6 3.97 147 650 30 100.6
4.14 21.6 4.32 735 585 475 100.6
4.49 21.6 4.67 987 275 380 61.9 <--Why now?
4.83 21.6 5 903 280 320 48.1
5.19 21.6 5.35 819 365 365 71.4
5.52 21.6 5.71 861 310 355 38.3
5.88 21.6 6.05 840 325 335 31.6
6.22 21.6 6.39 819 390 325 67.9
6.57 21.6 6.74 924 290 320 15
6.92 21.6 7.08 840 345 320 55.2
7.25 21.6 7.44 882 300 315 18.9
7.6 21.6 7.77 861 320 340 52.5
7.95 21.6 8.13 861 300 300 21.3
8.3 21.6 8.47 861 325 310 57.2
8.64 21.6 8.82 903 280 290 16.2
8.99 21.6 9.17 882 300 305 46.9
9.33 21.6 9.5 798 370 310 69.4
9.69 21.6 9.85 882 285 285 51.7
10.03 21.6 10.2 882 280 295 56
10.36 21.6 10.54 861 295 285 63.1
10.71 21.6 10.88 798 370 305 82.5
11.06 21.6 11.23 861 295 285 71
11.4 21.6 11.57 861 315 295 75.8

At 131 seconds later it goes back to 100%

123.71 33.3 123.88 840 270 270 72.2
124.05 33.3 124.22 861 265 275 68.6
124.4 33.3 124.57 861 270 280 70.6
124.74 33.3 124.92 882 260 280 68.3
125.09 33.3 125.26 903 250 230 67.9
125.44 33.3 125.6 840 275 285 72.2
125.77 33.3 125.96 819 280 295 71.4
126.13 33.3 126.31 903 250 250 68.3
126.47 33.3 126.65 882 255 255 67.1
126.83 33.3 127 840 290 265 77.7
127.19 33.3 127.35 840 275 295 72.2
127.52 34.2 127.7 882 265 270 70.6
127.86 34.2 128.04 861 265 255 69
128.21 34.2 128.38 882 260 250 68.6
128.55 34.2 128.72 882 260 260 70.2
128.89 34.2 129.07 861 270 265 71.4
129.24 34.2 129.42 861 265 275 71.8
129.58 34.2 129.76 882 260 265 68.6
129.94 34.2 130.1 861 265 265 70.6
130.28 34.2 130.45 840 275 280 71.8
130.62 34.2 130.79 840 270 275 70.6
130.96 34.2 131.13 840 270 265 71.8
131.3 34.2 131.47 882 250 250 65.5
131.65 34.2 131.82 840 275 275 100.6
131.99 34.2 132.17 903 245 460 100.6
132.33 34.2 132.5 861 245 485 100.6
132.69 34.2 132.85 861 240 480 100.6
133.02 34.2 133.2 861 240 460 100.6
133.38 34.2 133.55 882 240 460 100.6
133.73 34.2 133.89 861 240 455 100.6
134.07 34.2 134.24 861 240 445 100.6
134.42 34.2 134.58 861 240 465 100.6
134.76 34.2 134.94 861 240 475 100.6


I don't see anything changing (temp/MAF) when it finally goes to 100%. Is there anything else that can be seen from this data or should I look at some other sensors?
 

thundershorts

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has your car had the ecu software upgrade and ngk plugs installed? any tuning?
 

thundershorts

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Maybe you are getting closer to fixing the problem. The ecu software dictates the egr operation based on various inputs. Perhaps you should speak to your tuner. Had we known this originally, it would have been less time consuming and frustrating for you. You might also, if not already, have the voltage and glow times set to accommodate the ngk gps, as we are going into colder weather soon.
 

2002tdi

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mine is BONE stock. and it does the exact same thing. i thought it might have been doing this because of the EGR valve cycling and if i had the car tuned it would eliminate this issue... but then again if yours is tuned and it still does it so that kinda eliminates that solution. like i said i have been dealing with this for almost 9 months now. and now that it is cold its seems worse. also all of my coolant temp sensors are up to par. lets work through this...im tired of my car doing this.
 

thundershorts

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2002tdi, was your car part of the gp/software upgrade campaign?
 

2002tdi

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yes it was, and that was done when i bought the car 9months ago. i bought the car drove it home and the next day it misfired like crazy when i started it. the dealer towed it in, replaced the EGR valve and did the glow pulg update. when i picked it up from the dealer the misfire was gone, but it still stumbles until its warmed up. its very odd...one day when i was sitting in the car texting a buddy i was watching the tach and it fluctuates until the moment it hits operating tempature and then its smooth as can be.
 

lynnejohn

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yes it was, and that was done when i bought the car 9months ago. i bought the car drove it home and the next day it misfired like crazy when i started it. the dealer towed it in, replaced the EGR valve and did the glow pulg update. when i picked it up from the dealer the misfire was gone, but it still stumbles until its warmed up. its very odd...one day when i was sitting in the car texting a buddy i was watching the tach and it fluctuates until the moment it hits operating tempature and then its smooth as can be.
I had mine checked for the glow plug update when I first got it and they said it had been done. 2002, how long does yours take to get to temp? I'm going to check over the weekend to see if my EGR goes to 100.6% at the same time or if it might be the temp(132 seconds or 34.2 degrees C.) I also wounder if their is anything else software wise that has an input to when the EGR changes. The dealership had mentioned some type of calibration or duty cycle setting on the EGR.
 

thundershorts

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the egr valve goes through its own gyration/calibration. Tuners often decrease the egr so that is definitely suspect. there were two gp campaigns, depends which one they said had been done. if the gp's are ngk, the latest are in it
 

2002tdi

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forever, which every tdi i have ever owned does, if its warm out side...80 deg. about 15 minutes or 5 of highwayspeed driving. if i am just sitting there about 15.the moment it hits the half way point the idle goes completly smooth
 

lynnejohn

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With the Malone stage 2 I also had the Dynamic EGR added which is supposed to shut off the EGR when engine temp reaches 150F. Funny thing is when I look at my VAGCOM log I don't see the EGR going to 0% when the engine is at temp. I'm trying to get in touch with Mark to see how this EGR thing is supposed to work.
 

thundershorts

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hey! its the surprise de jour! anything else? perhaps you'll just have to get used to its quirks with the mods.
 

lynnejohn

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It happened before the mod was put in so I knew the issue was still there (but it has gotten slowly worse.) I ran another log for a few minutes this morning and comparing the time and temp of when the EGR goes to 100.6.

-Run--Time--Temp
26Sep 131.8 34.2C
29Sep 124.6 27C

I don't see anything here plus the Dynamic EGR is most likely clouding the issue. I'll run with the original ECU to see if it is exactly the same as 2002's.
 

thundershorts

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not sure what you meant by "same as 2002". sounds like a plan...good luck
 

lynnejohn

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Original ECU:

- Rough idle is not there.
- EGR acts exactly the same as with the Malone tune.
- @127.67 Seconds, 28.8C, EGR goes to 100.6.

Whatever is causing the rough idle does not seem related to the EGR %. At this point I can only ask Mark what his opinion is as to the cause and hope he has something good. 2002tdi I hope that what we are seeing is the same problem as it would be nice to solve this (I want my extra torque back and you would like to have a normal idle.)
 

thundershorts

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how does it run compared to running with the tuned ecu? Is the dynamic egr part of the tune? Maybe the dynamic should be a delete.
 

lynnejohn

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Quick update,
Car started/idled fine this morning, drove down 1/2 mile to my local gas station to get some coffee. Came back to the car and after starting it, it began to idle roughly. Did that for over a minute until I decided to leave for work. I'm really not sure what to think at this point but I might try a couple of things if they are cheap enough. First on my list was the injector wiring loom that had been mentioned in another thread as giving a lot of poor running issues until the car was stopped and restarted and then all was fine. I really don't like taking shots in the dark, but I'm beginning to get tired of this issue and the loom is about $50.
 

2002tdi

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i was thinking last night and am wondering if this has anything to do with the intake manifold having excessive carbon build up. also i noticed while driving some i am doing 40-50 mph and its in 4th gear. it kinda jerks around or shutters so u either have to speed up or downshift
 

lynnejohn

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i was thinking last night and am wondering if this has anything to do with the intake manifold having excessive carbon build up. also i noticed while driving some i am doing 40-50 mph and its in 4th gear. it kinda jerks around or shutters so u either have to speed up or downshift
2002,
You said you MAF was cleaned right? I think I rather do some cleaning before paying 60 for the wiring harness. But just to let you know that with the original ECU software on cold start-ups, it takes about 20-30 seconds before the idle becomes rough. It will idle for 3 minutes that way before I have to run to work(meaning I don't really know how long it would go on if I just sat there.) I still have not heard from Malone Tuning.
 

thundershorts

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you could just unplug the maf and run it. you can clear the fault later
 

perry-vw-

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My 05 has been doing the same thing, rough idle and even smoking on cold start ups. The car is all stock with a BSM completed last spring. I was talking to a friend with a TDI Touareg about my problem and he asked what type of fuel have I been using. I told him that I fill up a Road Ranger and he said that their "crap fuel" could be causing my problem. As I got closer to needing fuel I thought that his idea was too simple and I should try a different brand to prove him wrong. I filled up at Shell and within a couple of days I noticed the rough idle wasn't as bad and the smoking was less. I have filled up at Mobil 2x since then and I have noticed a huge improvement. The rough idle is there just a little bit but it goes away very quickly and the smoking is gone.

I don't know if this is just a coincidence but it is worth a shot.
 
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