First impression of a fixed 3.0L TDI Gen 2

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Car is 2014 Audi Q7 prestige. Took the car in yesterday and it's done by lunch today. I was told it took the tech 6 hours to finish the job, Glow plug was changed, plus the conversion kit. Cost to VW? $1450 for parts plus $289 for labor. Here is a screen shot from the service guy:



The engine rpm shifted earlier, the car felt lighter on the go. There were definitely less shifting points for both D and S mode, so the end result is that the car drove like toward the pattern of a gasser. I am not sure I like the fixed version better. I have no way to know change on the fuel economy but I have a lead foot, even if it's somewhat reduced(1-2mpg), I wouldn't have known.

The service guy was not aware to fill my car with a full tank of diesel when handing me the key but he trusted me enough to get it done after I showed him the booklet: Hi I don't want you to be complained by your next customer!:D
 

Greg5OH

Vendor
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Location
Ortonville MI
TDI
13 Q7
interesting about the shifting like you mentioned. I thought the q7 shifted a little weird in D mode, lots of TC slip, them would lock, then upshift etc. In S it felt alot more discrete. Mine is in getting the fix right now, sounds like the shifting will be nicer according to your report.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
Thanks for the update. So did the power feel more like a gasser or just the trans shift points? I'm assuming just the transmission but if so did the engine feel down on torque at all?
 

KDAWG97M3

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Location
GO DAWGS!
TDI
Q7
I pick my Q7 up today...interested to see this. I did notice on my invoice they said they replaced the glow plug, with a pressure sensor? Did I read it right?

Also where does it say free fill up a diesel? I would like to get mine filled up :)
 

Greg5OH

Vendor
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Location
Ortonville MI
TDI
13 Q7
The glowplugs are also pressure transducers. Pretty nifty little devices. It is a revised version of the old one.


I pick my Q7 up today...interested to see this. I did notice on my invoice they said they replaced the glow plug, with a pressure sensor? Did I read it right?

Also where does it say free fill up a diesel? I would like to get mine filled up :)
 

psd1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
I pick my Q7 up today...interested to see this. I did notice on my invoice they said they replaced the glow plug, with a pressure sensor? Did I read it right?

Also where does it say free fill up a diesel? I would like to get mine filled up :)
In the literature for the fix. It's on the web and a copy came in my mailbox last night.
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
In the literature for the fix. It's on the web and a copy came in my mailbox last night.
Yep, I need to remember to bring my booklet tomorrow to make sure I get the free tank. Big tank on the T-Reg. The $50 in free diesel will be a nice bonus. I hope mine goes as smoothly as the OP.
 

Nash_TDI

Veteran Member -TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Location
Louisville, ky
TDI
2000 Silver Jetta TDI
Yep, I need to remember to bring my booklet tomorrow to make sure I get the free tank. Big tank on the T-Reg. The $50 in free diesel will be a nice bonus. I hope mine goes as smoothly as the OP.

Same here. I might highlight that portion.

Hope they fix my issue soon. 1500 miles til I need adblue or sooner. Wish the service included oil change as I changed mine on Tuesday.
 

KDAWG97M3

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Location
GO DAWGS!
TDI
Q7
Sooo picked. My car up, free ad blue, 40.00 worth of fuel..,

Only issue I had, when I first picked it up, the car was lurching badly, almost like it was running out of fuel. I stomped on the accelerator and it sputtered, then was fine, I drove it home, and parked it, I drive all day tomorrow, and we will see if it is fixed.........stay tuned


Update....car drives good..different shift points....but drives well...no issues as of today 25 Miles...
 
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MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Well I have driven the Q7 150 miles in two days. I noticed the fuel hand is closer to the second hand, and usually it should be in the position of upward of the middle between the first hand and second hand. Assume the dealer honestly fill the tank 100% full, the mpg reduction is definitely not only 1mpg, more like more than 10%.

If this true, it really blows. Please report back your mpg after some driving here and let's collect some data points.

I have long suspected the approved fix is not a pure technical move, but a political one from CARB/EPA.
 
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Motodude

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Location
San diego
TDI
2011 q7tdi. 2012 q7tdi
Well I have driven the Q7 150 miles in two days. I noticed the fuel hand is closer to the second hand, and usually it should be in the position of upward of the middle between the first hand and second hand. Assume the dealer honestly fill the tank 100% full, the mpg reduction is definitely not only 1mpg, more like more than 10%.

If this true, it really blows. Please report back your mpg after some driving here and let's collect some data points.

I have long suspected the approved fix is not a pure technical move, but a political one from CARB/EPA.
They dont fill the tank, they only put in $40 worth of fuel
 

Motodude

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Location
San diego
TDI
2011 q7tdi. 2012 q7tdi
It is misleading. The flyer actually says it will be returned w a full tank of adblue and fuel. The lady at the dealership argued that only means fuel and not a full tank and Audi is only authorizing $40 and showed me the message from Audi saying only $40. Other people on this board are also confirming this. Cheap on audis part. In California it got me 1/4 a tank.
 

psd1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
It is misleading. The flyer actually says it will be returned w a full tank of adblue and fuel. The lady at the dealership argued that only means fuel and not a full tank and Audi is only authorizing $40 and showed me the message from Audi saying only $40. Other people on this board are also confirming this. Cheap on audis part. In California it got me 1/4 a tank.
Good god, how cheap can one get?
 

Motodude

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Location
San diego
TDI
2011 q7tdi. 2012 q7tdi
I am dropping off a 2nd one today at the same dealership. Claims is supposedly calling the dealership and telling them full tank. We will see. And they said they will also fill the 1st one I had done. We will see. I will update.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
I think my audi dealer was honest to refill a full tank of diesel. Because the tank was almost empty before refill and after the hand was over the first mark. If only $40 refill then it's only 16 gallons at $2.5 a gallon and the tank size is 26.8 gallons.

Can't be only $40 worth of diesel.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
So after driving two fixed Q7 for two weeks, I've decided that I don't like the fix at all. The main reason is loss of the low-mid end torque. The fuel pedal became very loose, easy to be floored. Even so the car is not as powerful. I rarely needed to floor the pedal before the fix. It's just lacking that tight pulling force.

Honestly it drives not even as fun as the newer gasser version(I loaned a 2018 Q5 2.0T gasser and a 2018 Q7 3.0T gasser). And I don't even care much about the fuel economy.

I really think EPA/CARB let VW go too easily. They showed great leniency to VW but totally discarded how gen2 car owners would feel. Even if they managed to reserve the peak power/peak torque, that still means squat if the power output curve got changed dramatically.

The approval is a compromised political move, not a pure technical one. If keeping one car, I'll definitely Malone tune it, get 339 in horse power and 528lb.ft in torque:)
 
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bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
So after driving two fixed Q7 for two weeks, I've decided that I don't like the fix at all. The main reason is loss of the lower end torque. The fuel peddle became very loose, easy to be floored. Even so the car is not as powerful. I barely floored the peddle before. It's just lacking that tight pulling force.

Honestly it drives not even as fun as the newer gasser version(I loaned a 2018 Q5 2.0T gasserand a 2018 Q7 3.0T gasser). And I don't even care much about the fuel economy.

I really think EPA/CARB let VW go too easily. They showed great leniency to VW but totally discarded how gen2 car owners feel. Even if they managed to reserve the peak power/peak torque, that means squat if the power output curve got changed.

The approval is a compromised political move, not a pure technical one. If keeping one car, I'll definitely Malone tune it, get 339 in horse power and 528lb.ft in torque:)
MBQ, if you had it to do over, would you still have pulled the trigger on the "fix" this early, rather than waiting?

My plan has been to wait and enjoy my 3.0 Gen 2 in its un"fixed" state until the last possible moment. The downsides of doing so I guess are that VW gets to hold on to the second half of my "fix" money, and the risk that something catastrophic happens to the vehicle before I get it fixed.

The second half of my "fix" money comes to around 3750 IIRC. If your experience is the norm, I think I'd rather delay as long as possible, foregoing the immediate cash and assuming the catastrophic risk. If given a do-over for your own personal vehicle, WWMBQD?
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
Also: is it stated anywhere in the 3.0 materials we owners received from VW a deadline by which we must submit to the "fix"? I have read through the materials multiple times, and also searched the online sites, and I cannot find it anywhere.

To make sure my question is clear, for those of us who agreed to the "fix" settlement, took Bosch's two payments and VW's first installment payment, is there a deadline by which we must schedule our "fix" to take place?
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
MBQ, if you had it to do over, would you still have pulled the trigger on the "fix" this early, rather than waiting?
My plan has been to wait and enjoy my 3.0 Gen 2 in its un"fixed" state until the last possible moment. The downsides of doing so I guess are that VW gets to hold on to the second half of my "fix" money, and the risk that something catastrophic happens to the vehicle before I get it fixed.
The second half of my "fix" money comes to around 3750 IIRC. If your experience is the norm, I think I'd rather delay as long as possible, foregoing the immediate cash and assuming the catastrophic risk. If given a do-over for your own personal vehicle, WWMBQD?
I would never have done the fix if it's my only ride and if I knew the result. I sent it for fix the first chance I got for the sake of unloading it quickly.

From very early on, the partial consent decree did not even mention the dose of DEF usage and that's very suspicious, and it states that "all the scientists from both parties looked at the proposal and agreed that a ECR is highly likely", which essentially gave VW the green light to do whatever they want (performance be damned) to just bring down the emission. After the fix the car is now far far away from what it was initially designed to be.

The PSC lawyers can still demand a buyback if there are enough complains from the owners, according to the language of the settlement but now they have very little incentives to do so.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Also: is it stated anywhere in the 3.0 materials we owners received from VW a deadline by which we must submit to the "fix"? I have read through the materials multiple times, and also searched the online sites, and I cannot find it anywhere.

To make sure my question is clear, for those of us who agreed to the "fix" settlement, took Bosch's two payments and VW's first installment payment, is there a deadline by which we must schedule our "fix" to take place?
I think it's around 12/1/2019.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
On another note, the service manager of the audi dealer fixing my cars told me that there are many owners who are just outright angry and refuse to "fix" their car. Guess they have good reasons to.
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
[QUOTE=MBQ;5352432]So after driving two fixed Q7 for two weeks, I've decided that I don't like the fix at all. The main reason is loss of the lower end torque. The fuel pedal became very loose, easy to be floored. Even so the car is not as powerful. I rarely needed to floor the pedal before. It's just lacking that tight pulling force.

Honestly it drives not even as fun as the newer gasser version(I loaned a 2018 Q5 2.0T gasserand a 2018 Q7 3.0T gasser). And I don't even care much about the fuel economy.

I really think EPA/CARB let VW go too easily. They showed great leniency to VW but totally discarded how gen2 car owners would feel. Even if they managed to reserve the peak power/peak torque, that means squat if the power output curve got changed dramatically.

The approval is a compromised political move, not a pure technical one. If keeping one car, I'll definitely Malone tune it, get 339 in horse power and 528lb.ft in torque:)[/QUOTE]

IMO the FIX is only about making the government and attorneys feel whole. The owners are only an impediment to the process. When you get in bed with the government and attorneys, you can expect more than a good night's sleep.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
I was a little nervous to pick up my Touareg today after reading this thread. However, the changes were not as bad as I expected. A little bit more detonation/diesel noise when driving around town and on cold start. The best way I can describe the power change isn't exactly a decrease in power, it's more that the transmission doesn't let you ride the torque curve quite as much. It revs more freely to above 3k rpms when doing an aggressive accel vs before it would short shift and ride the torque and build more boost. Mileage seems pretty close to the same on my 40 mile trip.

All in all, definitely worth the $9500 bucks plus extended warranty. I'll take it.
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
The best way I can describe the power change isn't exactly a decrease in power, it's more that the transmission doesn't let you ride the torque curve quite as much. It revs more freely to above 3k rpms when doing an aggressive accel vs before it would short shift and ride the torque and build more boost.
Any chance that the transmission "learns" the driver's habits and returns at least some of the previous torque? I'd be patient if I knew it might take a few tanks of fuel to get it back to the performance I've enjoyed.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
Quick Update, I had a 40 mile trip today with an average speed of 65-70 mph and the computer said 29.5 mpg which was not too bad. Then on my 15 mile drive home from work which I typically get excellent mpgs (30-34 mpg), today I had an average of 25.5 on the trip computer with a cruising speed of 60mph. I always have the average "from start" mpg on my display and watch it daily, that is the lowest average I have ever had on this trip by a good margin. On a completely flat road the instant economy was showing 28-29 mpg with zero wind. I have never seen it that low either of my Gen-1 or Gen-2 3.0 Tregs. I'm not sure if it was doing a regen or what, but hopefully that isn't a sign of the new normal.
 
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dunerking

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
The wife hasn't picked up the Cayenne yet,but I will say that VW transferred the 2nd half of the restitution money yesterday. I'm hoping to not be to disappointed after this fix.
 
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