Oil Pump chain survey

so, obviously the 4-digit number isn't the production number b/c mine is the same as leicaman's (4765). but, as you can see, my engine was produced in nov. '04. i bought the car with 125 miles on it in may '05.

That's right, the engine is the source of the vibe but he may be trying to link it to the configuration "with" the trans we have.

I have to agree with you that the "load" is being taken away, or reduced. Which in turn causes the revs to rise a bit, which also smooths it. When my car was new it was a bit worse in idle/drive/standstill than while driving. The car is super smooth and powerful on the go. It has worsened with time but not severely.

One thing that can be checked and adusted are the motor mounts, but if you're not carefule you risk snapping off the one stud on the bottom (I did it )

The bulk of the engine is supported by the trans. If you look under the car you'll see the beefy mounting points for the trans to the car. When I removed all of this it was really the trans doing most of the work. As long as my brother still comments on how quiet mine is compared to his (jetta) then I'm happy

leicaman said:

I think the build number is on mine as it appears on the sticker 4765 I see MoGolf used the 4 digit number. If anyone knows what number is what, it is MoGolf.

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No, I just posted the engine number. The label reads BHW 001 877.

My number is 004 821 I will also add that my oil consumption has remained at about .5L to .75L every 10k miles.

Mine is 013 369 and dated 23-10-04. No problems yet at 106,000 miles. I use the Motul 5W40 100% Syn and add about 1/4 liter between changes.

My mech friend for VW also told me to ensure we use the specified oil especially for the PD motors. He said he saw a video of my motor, 2.0PD with 501 (I think) oil and how it eventually caused everything to wear out. He said he wouldn't have believed it if he didn't see it.

I personally use the Mobil 1 spec. Amsoil became too expensive

jcaimhigher said:

I personally use the Mobil 1 spec. Amsoil became too expensive

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Uh oh....

Uh oh what?

TDIsyncro said:

Just wanted to point a few things related to this survey. The fact that people are having premature wear of pump chain/balance shaft drive does not show up in the results. After reviewing the posts several times, this is what I see:

briguy66 --------- 2005, 151K, had to replace chain
OH3Hoser -------- 2005, 95K, had to replace chain
Whitehouseauto -- 200?, 95K, loose chain - I assume replaced
JCaimhigher ------ 2005, 65K, complete failure
Bookworm -------- 2005, ?K , replaced chain and hex drive

If Whitehouseauto is a 2005, that is a problem with 5 out of 32 for the 2005's, none for the 2004's. Thats would be 15.6% of 2005's, ranging from 65K to 151K.

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If you want read through the posts to find all the failures, then you have to compare that number to the total amount of 2005 b5.5 posters and lurkers (since those without problems may not ever post). I don't have a good estimate for that number but 100-200 does not seem unreassonable. That puts the failure rate at 2.5 %- 5%, a much more reasonable number.

The survey is just that, a survey. It is not scientific. It is an indication of a problem, size and scope TBD.

Considering that we do not know all of the variables that may cause this failure, I wouldn't try to "clean up" this data.

The same failure may be caused by different combinations of things. Only a close examination of the failed parts and the entire circumstances surrounding the failures will yield anything worth taking a look at.

Remember: Correlation doesn't always equal Causation. Things may seem so connected that actually are not.

2.5% to 5% of any failure is unacceptable.

My .02

i mentioned it to the service guy today at the dealership, and he hadn't even heard of this. he said something about the 1.8t, but i don't think he even knew what i was referring to. of course, he also thought i had the 1.9 engine, so that shows you the intellect i was dealing with.

Like I said in another post, our engine 2.0PD has been rock solid and the cars aren't common in the US anyways. But for us, the failure rate seems to be high, IMO.

But most techs that are TDI techs will tell you that they don't see problems like this.

johnboy00 said:

If you want read through the posts to find all the failures, then you have to compare that number to the total amount of 2005 b5.5 posters and lurkers (since those without problems may not ever post). I don't have a good estimate for that number but 100-200 does not seem unreassonable. That puts the failure rate at 2.5 %- 5%, a much more reasonable number.

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Thats a fair enough statment. However, regardless of what final percentage we arrive at for failure rates (which we wont) it had to be pointed out that it is not just two failures on the list. There is a trend of some magnitude that needs to recognized. Then members are aware that there is a weakness to watch, not just two random incidents.

I agree with TDIsyncro.
What I want fellas to know is the information that I wish I would have had prior to this. If I would have known, when there was an issue at 40k, I could have requested them to fully replace the chain.

I don't want any other TDIers to have to go through what I'm gong through. Over 1.5yrs paying for a car and insurance that you can't drive, driving a beater truck, and everyone wondering why I'm not junking the car. I guess they don't understand credit and all that . I could go into my personal story but suffice to say I'm a single dad of two, with no time or money. I want my car to be a blessing not a curse.

Also, just because the dealer said they changed the chain tensioner doesn't mean that they did, replacing the cover that cracked is a piece of cake (comparatively). Had I known this issue, I would have requested to see it before they fixed anything and/or requested the parts to hold onto. Then I would have a bit more to go on in a situation like this.

This isn't something to freak out about but it is a definite thing to be aware of. And I have to also stress.... drive the car like you stole it! It's an awesome car to be driven and not "scared" of driving it.

From our tiny pool, sure looks like there are a lot more 2005 B5 TDIs here than 2004s. If I am not mistaken, though, it was a delayed intro in the 2004 model year.

Has anyone thought about making a North America B5 TDI registry? Does anyone know how many were actually sold here? I service boatloads of Volkswagens regularly, but this seems to be one very rare model in my neck of the woods. Lots and lots of B5s, just not many with the TDI engine.

Oilhammer, that's what I was saying, very rare combination. I have a wagon/Variant so even moreso. I have seen 2 B5 TDIs around Chicagoland. Only way to tell is by the sidemarker placement (B5.5 are on the mirrors) as you know.

I'd like to see what the numbers are though, that would be interesting. Mine was built in Oct 2004, but it's a 2005. I think VW delayed due to the emissions issues.

Three weeks ago a deer ran into our car causing about 3 grand of damage to the front end. Picked up the car on Friday. Last night on the way to pickup the kids the engine lost power, the oil light came on and then the MFD displayed an ominous STOP message.

Got word from my mechanic that the oil chain broke, sent a piece of the chain into the timing belt shredding it to pieces. The engine halted and chewed up the gear at the end of the timing belt. God only knows what it did to the the head any other number of things inside the engine.

Only thing I can say is oh my GOD! I have been diligent with all service and this is what happens. PISSED. Wondering if the impact from the deer strike could have caused or helped this on?

Has VW made any statement on the potential for this item to fail?

How are you supposed to protect against what you know nothing about?????

Really losing faith in VW

Boy that would be some really goofy laws of physics if a tiny little chain broke and somehow came THROUGH a chunky aluminum piece and got anywhere near the timing belt. That really sounds far-fetched.

I have seen two oil pump chain failures on non-BHW engines, and aside from the broken chain, the engine was untouched.

It sounds more to me like the chain may have broken, the oil pump stopped turning and oil pressure immediately went to ZERO, causing the 'idiot' light and even a message to come up, which you ignored and continued to drive until the camshaft siezed in the head from lack of lubrication and THEN the timing belt shredded from trying to turn a siezed cam. Now THAT is not far fetched at all.

saw it with my own eyes big hole in the oil pump housing and the timing belt was totally shredded.

LOL, Oilhammer that was beautiful.

That's a more likely reason for the belt to go. When mine went, the cover shattered the bottom but the chain stayed inside and there was enough of the cover containing everything. Lost about half of the bottom of the cover for the chain.

I use Amsoil faithfully and I knew the car would be ok for the little way I needed to go. The turbo shouldn't have spooled up at all, but we dont' know why the OEM EGT sensor didn't protect it. (Yeah, I drove it to the house-again not smart but no choice)

There was still enough oil in there slushing around but definitely not enough to drive far.

He would have had a light immediately after the incident, immediately. If it seized the upper then it was very 'known' that there was a major problem but it was still being driven.

FWIW, I remember not having any power. The turbo may have blown shortly after the catastrophe due to the rapid loss of oil. (hard to tell) have them check the turbo too!!!!

jcaimhigher said:

There was still enough oil in there slushing around but definitely not enough to drive far.

He would have had a light immediately after the incident, immediately. If it seized the upper then it was very 'known' that there was a major problem but it was still being driven.

FWIW, I remember not having any power. The turbo may have blown shortly after the catastrophe due to the rapid loss of oil. (hard to tell) have them check the turbo too!!!!

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I think the car travled less then 300 feet before i was able to get it over to the side of the road. Hope that was enought time to save the turbo.

Could have been. You can take off the intake air tube going to the turbo inlet. Two bolts, remove them and take off the hose. Then smell it. Feel the impellar and see if you can wiggle it fore to aft. Try spinning it, etc..

If it feels fine then it likely is fine.

Bivi said:

saw it with my own eyes big hole in the oil pump housing and the timing belt was totally shredded.

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OK, what you saw is not what you are explaining to us. The 'oil pump' has no 'housing'. It is a little cast iron 'box' INSIDE the engine. You cannot see it from the outside. Even if the oil pump came apart totally, it would be inside the bottom of the engine...in the oil pan.

If you are talking about a piece of aluminum down low in front of the engine, that is just the front crankshaft seal retainer...not a housing of any kind. However any compromise in that piece would be right near the timing belt's lower sprocket, and apperently could cause an issue.

Can you get the engine number from the tag (several are shown earlier in this thread)?

I was mistaken... What you are describing is what I saw. So what is the possibility of putting Humpty back from that kind of failure?

The timing belt going (with where the damage is located) doesn't make sense. Are you sure the timing belt is broken? You wouldn't see that either necessarily.

The chain in teh bottom of the front of the entine, behind the retainer is for the crank to the oil pump/balance shaft. The "housing" you saw, aluminum, is the retainer. If the crack/hole is at the bottom and that's all you see, then your timing belt is fine.

300' of travel? Then your belt didn't go when the chain went. I just don't believe that. If your mechanic is telling you that then he's not making sense.

You'll have to pretend I'm from Missouri and "show me".

From what I saw( and we all know now that I could have been wrong in what I thought was the timing belt ) the timing belt was in pieces

so is it possible that the timing belt was compromised first then the oil pump chain. Maybe he had it back wards. I know the timing belt was changed out on the nose as to when it was to be replaced.

Maybe i can get some pics of the car tomorrow and post them.

You can send them via email also if it's hard to post/host on the site.

The timing belt (I presume you've seen it before) is ribbed rubber for the car's ... never mind cheesy joke.

Anyways you know what it looks like. If the belt went I have a hard time believing the chain lunched. It would have turned with the crank. The oil pump shaft isn't that hard to move in comparison with the crank. They're connected, so it would have rotated while the engine continued to rotate.

I have a hard time believing the belt just snapped.

I do belive the chain went, the remnants of what you saw was of the retaining seal (housing) over the chain, and anything you saw was due to that. If it was the timing belt I dont' think you would have seen anything at all, it's all covered up.

I would very much like to see some pics too.

Also, did you say the timing belt was just replaced? Was this due to the accident?

He said he had over 100k and knew the exact date the belt was replaced. I think it was replaced before the accident. He just had the incident last night, about 3-4 days after he got the car back.

That's why I said I didn't think the belt just "went" being it was replaced at the scheduled time before the incident.

I'm guessing the belt is perfectly fine, the engine is fine, but he'll need to verify that crank. if the teeth are missing or whatever, he'll have to replace the whole crank.

Take photos, as many as you can.

Does someone have a way I can post pics? Maybe help me with my own site or something? I just don't have the time at all to research and such. I

I have pics of my tear down where the crank was still in and the teeth damage old/new is visible.

jcaimhigher said:

Take photos, as many as you can.

Does someone have a way I can post pics? Maybe help me with my own site or something? I just don't have the time at all to research and such. I

I have pics of my tear down where the crank was still in and the teeth damage old/new is visible.

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It is easy to add them to the your TDI photo album, but if you don't have time, you can email them to me, and I will post them on mine...but you have to do the commentary. BIVI - I will post yours too, if you need.
PM for my email address.