1997 B4V 1Z Grocery Getter Build

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Finally found that fuel temp sensor. Didn't make a difference. Looks like I'm replacing the pump =(
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Upgrade opportunity! Do it right the first time and forget about it after. Install a complete ALH automatic pump (with the necessary mounting machining to fit on your 1Z), keystone mod, advance collar mod, etc. ... This would also be a perfect time to go to a New Beetle 80-pin ECU and corresponding harness to connect to the pump. Cruising shudder, if you ever had it, will be a thing of the past.
 
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foxracer1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2001
Location
Dayton Ohio
TDI
98 A3 TDI 5spd, 86 w/TDI 02A in prog.
Last time i looked i couldn't find a thread on the keystone mod and advance collar mod. Everyone treats those as secret mods.

Also what all is involved in the NB ecu/harness swap? Are you saying use an early ALH ecu?
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Not for nothing but I don't see anything in the logs that indicate a bad pump... I'd hate to see you replace the pump just for it to do the same thing when it's cold...
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Pumps already the 11mm Dave. VW remanufactured. If I were to convert, I'd move to the 2002 ecu and harness, that way tuning won't be such a slow ordeal with these chips =)

Thanks for noticing that Jason, but doubleu tf... The logging may be crap, but the idle is hunting, and going up to 3k rpms takes a lot of grunt and slight popping. It runs just like you say with the blue smoke till 100*F, the blip to 3k doesn't really resolve anything, just something I do to get the temps up faster. I'll take two videos at the same time, one from the rear, and one at the dashes.

I'd like to point to the pump considering a lot of people have been running Colt Cam Stage 2's and not been bothered with the hard running cold starts. I just don't want to lose the opportunity to replace this pump under warranty. Matt's pointing at it, and DFIS seemed convinced.

Anyone want to throw me a used 10mm or a stock cam? Not that I want to do any timing belt (equivelent) jobs in the first place. bleh.
 
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slow-moe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Location
Germany
TDI
N/A
I'd vote for the injection pump too. I've seen similar behaviour due to a stucking control collar in a pump that was stored wrong over a longer period.
 
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TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
I must have missed the part about it being under warranty.. In that case I would try another pump..

My 03 stumbles around if I try to rev it stone cold, but I think it has to do with the big cam and lower CR.. It sounds like its "loading up" so to speak.. After idling for 1 minute it's pretty good though..
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Finally an update. IP Pump replacement done.

Second 60*F morning and the missing seems to be gone, smoke is gone. Just a puff right in the beginning. Don't need to blip the pedal to make the idle stop hunting. Sits nice and steady right from the start. If I blip the pedal to 3k it will still stumble, but then again its a cold engine. Driving around though to the 100*F seems to be just fine.

It's been raining in LA, so lets see if I can remember to not park in the garage to get some even colder temps.
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Well I don't know how to freeze the engine for a better test =p. It's May! Luckily It's not 90* like it usually is.
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Not yet Gus =(.

Been going to all these metal work shops to find a damn SS barb of some sort to replace the check valve. Either too thick or too thin. Then I'll have them test the fuel pump.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
SS barb fittings should be easily sourced. Use something off the internet if you have to, I'm a sucker for summit racing cause they are only like 30 minutes from me haha
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Getting my injectors checked out for balancing, and used a set of loaners from Matt.

PP520's are just not enough fueling, lol. Thing is a slug as it slowly builds up boost. Need me some more fuel!

Going to talk to Fuellabs regarding the lift pump, but the checkvalvectomy didn't do much of anything. If any one needs SS 1/4" (feed) 3/16" (return) barb menders. They fit a bit loose, but its not easy fitting tight barb menders on a line you can barely grab. I got a couple extra to help anyone out. For future reference, Brewing shops kegworks.com has SS barb menders.



BTW, anyone ever notice that their stop screw was turned in too much that it was "exhaust braking"? I think that's what happened from the point of leaving Ohio, because the spool up was never like what the dyno videos showed. I turned the screw out by like 6 to 8 turns (to the point you would think the vanes are WAY too open), and the thing was finally getting some EMP. That sure didn't make sense, I thought I'd be lagging more. 1:1.5 EMP ratio finally whereas I was always at 1:1 with my small adjustments I'd been making.

Response is up, but I'll take some channel 11 tests again to test the stop screw/emp.
 
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kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
It was the only loaner set I could find, so hopefully it won't be too far in the queue for July.
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
Hey, do you have any check valves you can spare? BTW, where did you get them?

Also, when you do the VNT adjustment, try to take a reading with a vacuum gauge where it starts moving and when it hits the stop. That would help others with their installs!

Getting my injectors checked out for balancing, and used a set of loaners from Matt.

PP520's are just not enough fueling, lol. Thing is a slug as it slowly builds up boost. Need me some more fuel!

Going to talk to Fuellabs regarding the lift pump, but the checkvalvectomy didn't do much of anything. If any one needs SS 1/4" (feed) 3/16" (return) barb menders. They fit a bit loose, but its not easy fitting tight barb menders on a line you can barely grab. I got a couple extra to help anyone out. For future reference, Brewing shops kegworks.com has SS barb menders.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Getting my injectors checked out for balancing, and used a set of loaners from Matt.

PP520's are just not enough fueling, lol. Thing is a slug as it slowly builds up boost. Need me some more fuel!

Going to talk to Fuellabs regarding the lift pump, but the checkvalvectomy didn't do much of anything. If any one needs SS 1/4" (feed) 3/16" (return) barb menders. They fit a bit loose, but its not easy fitting tight barb menders on a line you can barely grab. I got a couple extra to help anyone out. For future reference, Brewing shops kegworks.com has SS barb menders.



BTW, anyone ever notice that their stop screw was turned in too much that it was "exhaust braking"? I think that's what happened from the point of leaving Ohio, because the spool up was never like what the dyno videos showed. I turned the screw out by like 6 to 8 turns (to the point you would think the vanes are WAY too open), and the thing was finally getting some EMP. That sure didn't make sense, I thought I'd be lagging more. 1:1.5 EMP ratio finally whereas I was always at 1:1 with my small adjustments I'd been making.

Response is up, but I'll take some channel 11 tests again to test the stop screw/emp.
6 to 8 stopscrew turns :eek:

Usually less then one turn from the optimal point is clearly feelable in spool..

as a base setting, first turn stopscrew conpletely back so the lever doesnt hit the screw in max closed psotion, then turn stopscrew until it touches the lever, ander from there 2-3 turns further open should be a relative safe and good place to start finetuning from
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Thanks Ruben, I'll give it a try after I'm done roasting this 70 pounds of beef brisket.

Gotta get under the car to put vacuum on the actuator and topside to adjust the stopscrew, so it takes a bit of setup.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Just a note... when you back off the stop screw, you're closing the vanes not opening them, hence the rise in EMP and faster spool... I usually use the method RUB described for an initial setting and tinker from there..
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
My setup's pretty bass-ackwards upside down. But turning in the screw, would mean the arm would hit sooner, and thus not allow the vanes to close as much.. right? Maybe I've been going backwards the whole time lol.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
My setup's pretty bass-ackwards upside down. But turning in the screw, would mean the arm would hit sooner, and thus not allow the vanes to close as much.. right? Maybe I've been going backwards the whole time lol.
Yes.. When you turn IN the screw (closer to the arm so it hits the screw sooner) it doesn't allow the vanes to close as much, making it spool a little slower and lower EMP.. In other words, when you apply vacuum to the actuator, it closes the vanes.. The stop screw affects how far they are allowed to close...
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
It was the only loaner set I could find, so hopefully it won't be too far in the queue for July.

I have a funny feeling those PP520's are the ones I gave Matt last fall haha. Small world I guess :rolleyes:.

Following this turbo adjusting closely as I'm going to be in the same boat in a couple of days. I'll probably get it where I can just run it, and I'll take it out to Matt's on the 18th and let him and Jeff beat their heads off of it instead of me :cool:. Cause we all know, I only know enough to get my ass in trouble. :p
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Hey Thanks! I'll take care of em. Promise! *duck*

Regarding the stop screw. I've been opening the vanes the whole time! Now that I've been turning it counterclockwise, it's been building more emp.

Right now I'm finding Block 11 Basic Settings is useless for my adjustments. I can't get the number to deviate much from the 100% to 0% duty cycle.

I'm at a point of 1.3:1 emp on big spikes (the small ones as I'm going up in rpms can be 2:1 but I believe those don't matter). I notice on idle I'll have 1psi on the emp gauge. If I blip it to 3krpm hits 8psi on the emp gauge. Matt said he liked it to spike to 10psi (when I got it perform that way, at idle it was sitting at 2-3psi).

Response is up, still smoking even with the PP520's. I can run it pretty hard and make it get full boost again. Guess I just gotta stomp on it a bit more than before. Not a slug.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
Im suprised you're smoking with PP520's with such a large snail under the hood. With my PP764's I was only getting a decent haze at WOT and 28-30 psi. Then again my 11mm pump was rather high up in the IQ, IIRC 7.4.

I didn't touch the stop screw on this new turbo I bought I just transfered the guts out of it into the old exhaust housing and compressor housing. I'll bolt it up and break the motor in tonight or tomorrow and then see what it does without beating it toooo hard *rolls eyes* w/e that means *smirks*
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Did some logs last night.
Didn't have space for 5k rpm but Mark was ok with that.
EMP was set to 2-3psi at idle. I get 2:1 spikes prespool but on high rpm from 2500 to 4k the EMP goes from 30psi to about 37psi. It didn't change much when it was at 1psi EMP at idle.

What do you guys think? Looks like more space for a shorter actuator =)


3rd gear



4th gear
 
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