Audi A4R4 450HP CBEA (CR) Build

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Yes there is an internal passage in plate for the feed. the drain comes out at bottom and lines up to the oem location in the block.

I did add a support tab yes. just like stock turbos also have.

the withe stuff is some kind of glass fiber. so yes, wise to use dust/eye mask =)
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Back in town. Picked up the stuff I ordered. Most of its there so will be able to start putting the manifold together this week.

Laser cut parts and pipe fittings.




This is the simple jig for helping assemble the manifold correctly.

 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Back in 2013 I made this post:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4394950&postcount=781

2micron (Andrew) was the only one that took a bite at what was going on and I later made a confession to him.
When I started this project back in 2009 it was based on a total loss purchase that I fixed and got re-certified for the road. In the repair process I had purchased a third Audi as a part car for quit cheap. After removal of the parts from this parts car, the gears started to turn about options and possibilities to deal with issues of under-steer and quattro power losses. I had done some earlier experiments with just running RWD on my silver Audi and it did free up some power loss but the A4 did not really seem like a great track handling platform in RWD format..though it was fabulous for drifting. The entire engine is beyond the front wheels, so it really is limited in capability. I considered other platforms but really wanted to stay in VW/Audi family. A Porsche would of been a good option but that would have to be an Audi 4.2 petrol not a 2.0 diesel . I ended up doing some experimentation on the parts car and arrived at a mid engine back-halved arrangement. I then transferred all the pre-development work over to the final chassis and everything was integrated with the roll cage. The design intent was to create a much better handling chassis but maintain some of the refined nature of the Audi passenger cars. To accomplish this a customized sub-frame with isolation bushings was utilized. Control arms, bearing hubs and breaks are from an A6. I would also retain full factory interior in the driver/passenger compartment, as well as power steering, ABS, and A/C. Traction would be enhanced by 315 profiles in rear, and 275's in front. I also wanted to look in rear view mirror and see exactly the same thing before and after rework so I opted for an aluminum fire wall that would be covered in insulation and upholstery. All this work was performed in summer 2010 and spring of 2011. All I was missing at that point was the engine build.


Building the Roll Cage, Tube Frame Chassis and Sub-frame






 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Making progress on hot side turbo manifold

Starting to build manifold in jig.










Manifold bolted in place on engine with an EBV valve.




Positioning HP turbo




Positioning LP Turbo

 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Exhaust Transfer pipe from HP to LP








2" SCH 10s pipe inside GTD exducer cone..pipe is beveled and inserted. Its a nice fit!



 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Very impressive! I for one am stoked to see people finally getting big power from the 2L cr tdi's. Even cooler when it's in a beautifully done mid engine chassis arrangement!
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Nice work. But if you were going to those extremes, wouldn't it have been worth it to put in a 3.0 engine?
Thank you. The 3.0 TDI was the original discussion and is very atttractive. The 4.2 TDI was also talked about but much too expensive. I also have a 4.2 gas here for turbo charging..but lets stay with the engine at hand. The goal was a 2.0 TDI 450ish HP, it will have about 600 ft-lbs. The chassis was created to show case the engine and turbo system (originally), not the other way around. Also, I am not sure there is any advantage for more (3.0) torque as the 01E FWD will not take it. Can I put down more HP, sure but I don't think its needed for this build. The two turbo system is meant to create a broad torque band and one will not notice much difference from the 3.0 other than the exhaust note. Lets not forget I can also tour this car and still pull 40-50mpg. The addition of a YASA drive at the front is very realistic for an additional peak power of around 200-250HP. Hopefully someone at YASA likes this thread and donates one!! :D
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Very impressive! I for one am stoked to see people finally getting big power from the 2L cr tdi's. Even cooler when it's in a beautifully done mid engine chassis arrangement!
thank you. I appreciate the comments. I was very stoked to see Ryan reach 500+ HP. We have been discussing things a lot in the back ground over the last few years. He has broken the ground first but I am nothing but happy for him (and he has paid a lot of dues to get there). I can honestly say we are at the edge of great things to come for CR engines (despite all the NA trade-ins). We have been building up a good knowledge base and resource base.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
01E (getrag 466/815) is big and takes really high torque numbers. Also quite slow to gear. No need to worry about it. Past 1000nm no problem.
 
Last edited:

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
I think they got 40x hp on diesel only which is a great result anyway.
This is a 2.0 pd with new turbo testing now, did 394hp on a reputable dyno
Car ran 11.6s on diesel only, 10.6s with nos
With little tweaking of the turbo it should be good for 400+hp
See dyno


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
01E (getrag 466/815) is big and takes really high torque numbers. Also quite slow to gear. No need to worry about it. Past 1000nm no problem.
It's my understanding that the big torque numbers are only out the rear output on Quattro configuration. Running just fwd configuration is much less rating based on strength of front differential. This can be somewhat enhanced by installation of a wavetrac.
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
I think they got 40x hp on diesel only which is a great result anyway.
This is a 2.0 pd with new turbo testing now, did 394hp on a reputable dyno
Car ran 11.6s on diesel only, 10.6s with nos
With little tweaking of the turbo it should be good for 400+hp
See dyno
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Nice numbers on Pd!
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
Consider this is not insane big turbo.. gtb2365vk with some good stuff inside, 7+7 mfs point milling cw etc.

Hope you are going for 4x4 configuration otherwise youre wasting your time on big power

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Consider this is not insane big turbo.. gtb2365vk with some good stuff inside, 7+7 mfs point milling cw etc.

Hope you are going for 4x4 configuration otherwise youre wasting your time on big power

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Mid engine platform can easily put down more than what 2.0 tdi can produce without being 4x4. I have good weight distribution and currently 315 rubber. I can easily fit 335 if more is needed but I doubt it. If I have front wheels driving in future it will be additional power through YASA drive not power sent forward with exotic R8 or Porche transmission.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
It's my understanding that the big torque numbers are only out the rear output on Quattro configuration. Running just fwd configuration is much less rating based on strength of front differential. This can be somewhat enhanced by installation of a wavetrac.
Hard to say how much the diff takes but the box internals are the same excluding torsen. And it seems its fine on turbo gt40s and some porsche applications where they have those. And since i had past 800nm without problems ... although engine mounts got destroyed. It's really not the weakest link :D
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Glad that the "secret" is finally out, Louis! Amazing design and fabrication skills! Looking forward to first startup of the engine and first drive of the car. Saskatoon is within a day's drive from me, I'll have to plan another visit! :)

PS : exhaust manifold and bypassed biturbo system are badass! ;) :D
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Glad that the "secret" is finally out, Louis! Amazing design and fabrication skills! Looking forward to first startup of the engine and first drive of the car. Saskatoon is within a day's drive from me, I'll have to plan another visit! :)

PS : exhaust manifold and bypassed biturbo system are badass! ;) :D
Thank you Dave. I appreciate your comments. Perhaps next summer things will align and we can do a first test drive or at least some testing and tinkering on turbo control.
 

mk3pd

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat Quattro :)
Thank you Dave. I appreciate your comments. Perhaps next summer things will align and we can do a first test drive or at least some testing and tinkering on turbo control.
Glad to see you are back on track with this project Louis
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
I know of 4 builds aiming for 400+ hp on 2.0CR this winter, curious how it ends.
That is great! Hopefully everyone gets there. I just hope there will be some continued knowledge sharing on the details of these paths. This thread has always been about sharing information and experience.
 

Macradiators.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
We had measured all springs available (stock, b8, bsr, DS) on the 2.0CR platform and custom made them, specific for exhaust and intake.
I'll try them as soon as i finish the 3.0 engine.
Plan is fuel upgrade, springs, BB turbo with lighter tw, 2.6-2.7 boost.
 

Bobby Singh

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Location
England,Middlesex
TDI
Audi 3.0 TDI
We had measured all springs available (stock, b8, bsr, DS) on the 2.0CR platform and custom made them, specific for exhaust and intake.
I'll try them as soon as i finish the 3.0 engine.
Plan is fuel upgrade, springs, BB turbo with lighter tw, 2.6-2.7 boost.
Mac how did you measure my springs? You never bought a set.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Awesome to see pics of your project Louis ! How do you plan on controlling that 7.3 exhaust back pressure valve ? Electric actuator or mechanical boost
?

Would the OE powerstroke/IC way of controlling that valve would be too slow responding ? It might be kind of handy to use the powerstroke/IC turbo pedestal system as it looks like you have room.Mabye one could tune something like the EGR or intake flapper system to operate that PWM regulator on the pedastal ?

Edit:One thing to add though is that the powerstroke/IC uses an exhaust manifold pressure sensor as a main input to controlling the EBPV.Perhaps a standalone controller would be better to control the valve if going this route.
 
Last edited:

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Awesome to see pics of your project Louis ! How do you plan on controlling that 7.3 exhaust back pressure valve ? Electric actuator or mechanical boost
?

Would the OE powerstroke/IC way of controlling that valve would be too slow responding ? It might be kind of handy to use the powerstroke/IC turbo pedestal system as it looks like you have room.Mabye one could tune something like the EGR or intake flapper system to operate that PWM regulator on the pedastal ?

Edit:One thing to add though is that the powerstroke/IC uses an exhaust manifold pressure sensor as a main input to controlling the EBPV.Perhaps a standalone controller would be better to control the valve if going this route.
Thanks Andy.

I think the Power Stroke actuator would be too slow responding. I am planning on using a vacuum actuator. I will uses a solenoid valve to control the vacuum source. If I use the SCS Delta ECU, then there is probably an output I can configure for the job. If not, I have considered setting up my own micro controller to run all the junk. :D
 
Last edited:

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
A little bit of a progress update. All the exhaust manifold welding is compete. I do have to remove one of the v-band flanges and re-weld after I machine flanges and install gaskets. I realized this would be a problem on final fitment late last week. I also have to add some sensor ports.

This is the EBV valve and flange for LP turbo. I cut the EBV valve down shorter on one end just to make things as compact as possible. The big tab on one end of the LP turbo flange will be one of my mounting points.




This is the modified HP hot-side. Very happy with how this turned out. Welds on casting went really well. Housing was preheated to 550F, held above 550F for welding; post heating was also continued.




Picture of the beautiful HP compressor wheel



Test fitting manifold parts and full HP turbo assembly. Clearance over valve cover and injector lines looks perfect. Removed clocking pin from compressor backing plate (this was also done on hot-side) and have arrived at a good angle. I will weld a nipple onto the compressor housing. I am also thinking I will add an RPM sensor to the HP compressor housing.



LP installed. Compressor housing still needs to be rotated. I am very happy with fitment. It does not interfere with the rear door at all. There is good height and angle to accommodate a gravity drain back to oil sump! There is good position for the custom motor mount/turbo mount bracket.
 
Last edited:

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
I went on a trip down memory lane and read this thread from page 1, plus threads that preceded and also came subsequent to this one.

I want to say, Louis, what a pleasure it has been to work with you all these years. I am very grateful for our friendship. :) A lot of "life" has gone on - for both of us - since this project was conceived some nearly 8 years ago. Seeing where your project is now gives me complete confidence that we will be having first-start and first-run when our miserable Canadian winter passes. :D

I'm also eager to know how the original engine build that started this thread does in its new home. Exciting times for sure. :)
 
Top