Car and Driver: 2008 TDI Jetta named one of 2008's most fuel efficient surprises

tdi4kev

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NY
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03 Jetta GLS Reflex Silver 5 spd leather
A little disappointing overall, but as they say, no such thing as bad publicity. At least it gets people thinking about a diesel option.
 

DickSilver

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2004 B5.5V, 1996 B4V
The EPA figures are unofficial yet, because the Jetta TDI is delayed, making it I would suppose, officially a 2009 model.
 

Ol'Rattler

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PNA
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2006 BRM Jetta
Erdrick said:
Umm... hopefully that IS correct!!! http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm It would mean an increase in FE from the previous 2006 model. Whoops... the formatting on that and the link are probably screwed. Shouldn't take more than a minute to look up the figures on the 2006 Jetta though...
The 2008 diesel Jetta is not listed yet. At least VW is smart enough not to make one of those ridiculous "flex fuel" vehicles..................

The big 3 must have "helped" Car and Driver "estimate" the 08 Jetta's milage.:rolleyes: 31/39 seems ridicuously low.
 

btcost

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Boston, MA
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'12 JSW, '00 Jetta (totaled 12/23/10), 1987 M-B 300D
that might be for the DSG model. even so a little low.

If I remember from the 'fest the 6 speed tranny should get 50mpg on the highway.

if you go 65 mph that is
 

brucetmoose

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Rochester, NY
TDI
Used to own a 2002 Jetta TDI - Black/Black
"Are you on drugs mr. Car and Driver ?"

31/38 ???? - is that the V10 model ???

let me see - here's my "fuel stretching" strategies.

1 - Fuel up
2 - Drive like every other average american

In that mode, I get 42 mpg during the winter and 45 during the summer. And this is with a 2002 Jetta TDI that has been pretty much beat up due to accident / bad repairs. If I take the NYS Thruway or some other interstate, it goes up to about 50+. About a 60/40 split highway/city driving.

I don't even TRY to drive it by stretching and I get the above. My 2002 was rated 42/49 (I just looked it up to make sure) and that's what I get. I haven't even come close to try and improve it, imagine what would happen if I did.

So where do they come off of about 10 mpg less ??? Only thing I can think of is that is the auto tranny mileage. I went back to the book, for 2002 the mileage was 34/45. BING !!!

So I'm thinking that manual tranny still rules :)
 

SBAtdijetta

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Houston, TX
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'10 Jetta Cup 6spd, '02 Jetta Auto
That poor rating is just an estimate... and its a 2008 calulation estimate which are very low compared to what the TDI's actualy get.

My 2006 Jetta TDI 5spd was rated in 2006 figures 36 City 41 Hwy

In 2008 figures it is rated only 30 City 37 Hwy.

And in regular and hard driving it meets the city figure at 36 Mpg and kills the highway figure 45-49 Mpg. In mixed driving I get 39-40 normaly and as high as 45 mpg.

So the 2008/9 2.0 TDI with a 31 City 39 Hwy rating is 1 Mpg better than my 2006 in the city and 2 Mpg better on the highway. I would bet that sense this is just an estimate it will do even better compared to my 2006.

That would put the 2008/9 at least at "real" 2006 ratings at 37 city 43 Hwy, in real driving it could get 38 city and 47-51 Hwy.

I call EPA BS on the 30/37 guesstemate figures... More like 37/43+ all this of course with a manual.

BTW how much better will a 6spd manual do than the old 5spd?
 

El Dobro

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It says in the article that it "should regularly return over 50mpg" so it sounds like they're not holding the car to any estimate on the real mileage.
 

Dunno513

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Location
Mirror Lake, NH
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2006 NB PD-TDI DSG
Why the confusion about possible EPA stats ?

It's a larger displacement, higher power engine with a fuel hungry emissions cycle. What part of reality do people not understand. It's not magically going to get better milage just because it's new.

The PD lost ground to the rotary pumps, and the CR is going to lose ground to both. Just a fact of life...

Over a year ago while the CR development and PD demise was being debated I commented on a posted article that clearly said that fuel efficiency would be compromised for sake of 50 state emissions standards in the new CR technology. Apparently no one wanted to hear the possible truth at the time.

But.. this is the best written article about diesels I have read yet... The writer was actually educated..

Oh well.. back to my humble existance... Guess the blame will go the way of the DSG.. ya..thats the reason...:rolleyes:
 
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bombero

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The Lone Star State
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2006 Jetta TDI
Dunno513 said:
It's a larger displacement, higher power engine with a fuel hungry emissions cycle. What part of reality do people not understand. It's not magically going to get better milage just because it's new.

The PD lost ground to the rotary pumps, and the CR is going to lose ground to both. Just a fact of life...

Over a year ago while the CR development and PD demise was being debated I commented on a posted article that clearly said that fuel efficiency would be compromised for sake of 50 state emissions standards in the new CR technology. Apparently no one wanted to hear the possible truth at the time.

But.. probably the best written article about diesels I have read yet... The writer was actually educated..

Oh well.. back to my humble existance... Guess the blame will go the way of the DSG.. ya..thats the reason...:rolleyes:

Yeah, I notice a lot of people just want to assume this is due to the DSG. My '06 Jetta with the DSG gets great mileage and is acually rated higher on the hwy, probably because it has 6 gears to the the 5 of the manual.
 

impetus19

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nj
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2000 jetta TDI
Based on the fact that vw.com estimates the mileage at mid 50's highway and mid 40's city, I would think the article is using old information.

Besides, hasnt it been established that it will be a 2009 model.
 

Doonie

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Jul 16, 2007
Location
Milwaukee
TDI
none
Dunno513 said:
... fuel efficiency would be compromised for sake of 50 state emissions standards in the new CR technology...
I can't tell if you're blaming speculated increase in fuel consumption on emission standards or common rail fuel delivery.
 
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Bob_Fout

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Indiana
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2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
bombero said:
Yeah, I notice a lot of people just want to assume this is due to the DSG. My '06 Jetta with the DSG gets great mileage and is acually rated higher on the hwy, probably because it has 6 gears to the the 5 of the manual.
IIC the top-gear ratio is the same or very close. The DSG 1st is lower than the 5-speed's 1st, the DSG's 2nd is like the 5-speed's 1st.

Dunno about ratios of parts other than gears though.

The DSG is rated ONE mpg higher on the highway, and ONE mpg less in the city. That's called a wash in my book.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
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Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
I have two 2006 Jettas.

One with a five speed manual. pkg 1, 35,000 miles

One with a 6 speed DSG. pkg 2, 11,000 miles

The manual gets the better mileage by far.

I don't think the car with DSG is completely broken in yet.

Time will tell us more.

Speculating on the potential mileage of a car model not yet available is futile.

Apparently the writer of the article has been lurking on this board.... To wit:


the sort of people who debate the optimal drafting distances for differently-shaped “tow vehicles”
Bill
 

vwdsmguy

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Syracuse, NY
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2002 Golf black 5-spd
2009 Jetta fuel use

From a trip to a dealer I was told that the next Jettas [2009] would have DSG - no manuals. Is this true?
 

10then34

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North Dakota
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'06 Jetta
vwdsmguy said:
From a trip to a dealer I was told that the next Jettas [2009] would have DSG - no manuals. Is this true?
In the US market, maybe.

I had my eyes on a Volvo V70 wagon with the 2.5l NA engine and a stick shift (as plain a vehicle as you can get). Unfortunately, I missed the deadline to order an '07 model by about 2 months. When I talked to Volvo, they stated that only 2% of US buyers chose the manual and that as a result the '08 model will be automatic only :mad:
 

WiscVWnut

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Central WI
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'03 Jetta Wagon '05 Beetle DSG 07 Passat Variant
2008/2009 mileage

I would guess that the 30/39 mileage is about right for the new CR2.0 The 04-05 Passat's with the PD2.0 were rated at 27/38 and that's about what the got. Maybe low 40's in warm weather and keep it under 65.
I mean we are talking an increase of 30 some horsepower and nearly 100 ft/lbs of torque.
Also, Washington is for sure not going to let anything into this country that might shoot a hole in their road taxes. It's going to take someone like a Ron Paul in office to ever let us see a 70 mpg Polo or something like that..
 

Erdrick

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Detroit, Michigan
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1998 Jetta
I think a big key that people are forgetting is that the EPA ratings changed for 2008. They have also listed a lot of older vehicles with this new rating system. TDIs have always gotten better than EPA in most cases, under the old EPA rating system. With the new ratings, which show almost every car as getting less FE than the previous rating system, the TDIs will shine even more.

People with Priuses will feel better when they are actually able to meet their 2008 vehicle's EPA estimates, and 2008 TDI owners will be delighted to blow away their car's EPA estimates! Not that I am biased to either side, as I drive both. Well, older models anyways... Oh, and one isn't a Prius, but the Lexus 400h.
 

brucetmoose

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Used to own a 2002 Jetta TDI - Black/Black
What bugs the heck out of me in regards to all of this

In regards to the Polo and other cars, having actually driven a '78, those cars were WAY ahead of their time on the MPG curve. While everyone else was getting horrid mileage, these things were getting 40+ mpg. And that's why my dad bought one and continued to in 81, 82, and 85.

Fast foward 30 years. VW once again has the chance to be a real leader in the MPG market, but for some reason they choose to build a car with more power which uses more fuel. Yeah, that's a brilliant move .

What the BLEEP are they thinking ? You release a 70+ MPG call to the public here right now and heavily advertise it and people will flock to it like gangbusters.

Tell me, VW, why ISN'T the polo and other cars being offered or plan on being offered in the USA ? And why is the media not asking these questions. To me, this is the marketing mistake of the decade. If I were CEO of VW, I'd have been making sure that a TON of various diesel models were available for the USA in 2008/2009 and I'd already be advertising them to whet the appetite.

Ok, maybe they are being too cautious, but for god's sake would someone do some marketing ? Every person I have talked to wants one of these things after hearing the mileage. All it takes is some great commercials, in fact, make a play on the GM models blowing up in the '80's - hasn't anyone attended the Budweiser school of marketing ?
 

frugality

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brucetmoose said:
Fast foward 30 years. VW once again has the chance to be a real leader in the MPG market, but for some reason they choose to build a car with more power which uses more fuel. Yeah, that's a brilliant move .
That's what people want, though. People still are drawn more to power than mileage. They'll even buy a higher-performance gasser that requires premium, not actually running the numbers to see what it'll cost them. And of course, buying sport-utes when they aren't really 'needed.'

Consumer demand has to drive fuel economy. I disagree with Congress' move to increase the fuel economy of cars by regulation. They just need to put more tax on fuel so that it's $5/gallon. Put the money into roads and alternative-energy research. Mabye bridges, too, so we don't have them collapsing like the one in Minneapolis.
 

frugality

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none, 2016 GTI
Heh. After posting that, I went to a Suzuki motorcycles forum I also frequent. Check out this guy's post about a new car he bought:

I just made up with the little lady for all the crap I subjected her to the past few years.
I bought her a loaded 2008 Infinity AWD with all the bells and whistles (Tech package)
She has consistantly had Cadillac STS cars since 1991, and I looked at the 2008 CTS AWD, but I couldn't resist Infiniti 306 HP @ 7500 RPM. Also the Cad dealer was reluctant to find the color combo she would be happy with. I hate the "order" hassle. The Infinity dealer was willing to get the model/color we wanted within a day from 100 miles away.
Done deal.
Does anyone have experience with an Infinitu G ? My test drive was awsome, the interior great, the exterior really nice.
This is more the 'average' US consumer than us here on this TDI forum. They 'need' 306hp and AWD and all the bells and whistles. And 'the order hassle'? Many of us here on TDIclub like ordering exactly what we want.
 

Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
My brother purchased a 2008 Dodge Charger 425 hp. I have to laugh at him every day. I tell him at least I can afford to drive my car.
 

impetus19

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nj
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2000 jetta TDI
Toyota is still selling a lot of priuses.. So not everyone in this country is looking for a loaded Infinity.
Unfortunate that a 300 hp <20mpg car can pass emissions and a 40mpg diesel cant.
 

Tom Servo

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impetus19 said:
Toyota is still selling a lot of priuses.. So not everyone in this country is looking for a loaded Infinity.
Unfortunate that a 300 hp <20mpg car can pass emissions and a 40mpg diesel cant.
I reckon that for every person who ponies up for nice new Prius because they want to great gas mileage, there's at least one who bought it for the 'poseur' factor. They want to be seen in it because it is a car that is to be 'seen in'. Look at all the celebutards who drive them around LA. If it weren't for the sense of smug satisfaction they get for pretending to be 'earth friendly', they wouldn't be caught dead in those little things and would be riding in Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs instead.
 

rjr311

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Tom Servo said:
I reckon that for every person who ponies up for nice new Prius because they want to great gas mileage, there's at least one who bought it for the 'poseur' factor. They want to be seen in it because it is a car that is to be 'seen in'. Look at all the celebutards who drive them around LA. If it weren't for the sense of smug satisfaction they get for pretending to be 'earth friendly', they wouldn't be caught dead in those little things and would be riding in Range Rovers and Lexus SUVs instead.
Who cares _why_ they do it, they are doing it and telling their friends - and being seen on TV. I don't care if someone buys a fuel efficient car to get more sex with monkeys. We all have our own reasons and if they mean reducing fuel consumption by 20 or 50% why are any of them "bad".
 

gopher

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Joined
Dec 10, 2005
2008 fuel mileage

if one reads foreign publications such as What Diesel Car you will discover that the government fuel economy figures (at least in England) show about a 10% reduction in fuel economy for the Jetta TDI with 2.0 diesel engine vs the same car with the 1.9L engine- and these are models that meet the current EU emission standards. In the U.S. the 2009 Jetta TDI will have to meet much stricter emission standards than the preceeding model, accordingly it is reasonable to assume that the '09 version that we are waiting for will have at least a 10% reduction in fuel economy compared to the '06 model- accounting for the larger engine and tightened emission standards
 

DickSilver

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Kentucky
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2004 B5.5V, 1996 B4V
I agree with Brucetmoose that VWOA are a collection of marketing dunces. If they invested in the right promotions for low-consumption TDIs with superior handling/safety/etc., they could sell a ton of them. Polos, plus Tourans and Eurovans, would all sell well.

We live in South Africa part of the year and Kentucky the other part. In Kentucky we are saddled with an overly-thirsty 2004 Passat wagon (32 mpg long-term with Tiptronic), but in South Africa we drive a 2004 Touran 1.9 TDI 6-speed that gets 35 mpg city, 40 mpg hiway, and has more usable room and a higher, more comfortable seating position.

VWOA deserves to be a money-loser, the way they run their business.
 

tdisedanman

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So Florida
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Ex 2005 Passat, TDI and ex 2005.5 Jetta TDI
gopher said:
if one reads foreign publications such as What Diesel Car you will discover that the government fuel economy figures (at least in England) show about a 10% reduction in fuel economy for the Jetta TDI with 2.0 diesel engine vs the same car with the 1.9L engine- and these are models that meet the current EU emission standards. In the U.S. the 2009 Jetta TDI will have to meet much stricter emission standards than the preceeding model, accordingly it is reasonable to assume that the '09 version that we are waiting for will have at least a 10% reduction in fuel economy compared to the '06 model- accounting for the larger engine and tightened emission standards
The 07 DSG model will have a 7 speed trans thus getting higher mileage. The VW site says 40 city and 50s hwy( I am not sure of the manual trans). My wifes 05 Passat with the TDI and automatic averages about 33 in combined driving. On the hwy, with 4 people, loaded with luggage and cruising speeds better than 70, I got something like 44 MPG. Her car has the 2.0 engine with less refinement than the new Jetta. I don't think you will see a fuel economy reduction at all!
 
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