Tsi engines

KITEWAGON

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Seacoast, NH
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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Ha! "Nostradumbass".... Awesome! I'm using that one. :)

RUG is down to $1.64/gal around here. Perhaps the TSI engines that can make use of that will do pretty well for the time being. Diesel was almost 80 cents more, it has not [yet] enjoyed a drop in price. The 1.4L in a base model Golf may be a great contender for an ALH after all. I'd still steer clear of the 1.8L and 2.0L TSI engines, though.

$1.64! What year is this thread. Wow, I think RUG is $2.50 here and I'm paying $3 or so for D2. At $1.64 no wonder big trucks and SUV's are selling so great. That is some cheap fuel.
 

tikal

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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
EV sales in Europe are still a small percentage overall, but at the rate they're going, they won't be for long. I don't think the plummeting popularity of diesels in Europe portends well for the future availability of diesel cars here.
I agree definitively. Unfortunately the majority of light diesel vehicles not sold or 'removed' from the US market will be substituted by gasoline powered SUVs struggling to improve the overall non-commercial vehicle MPG average of the USA in any meaningful statistical way.
 

RabbitGTI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
Yes and no.
The belt driven 2.0L turbo gas engines continued on after 2008 in certain models for a few years, the Audi A4, the Golf R, the Audi TT. These are akin to the BPY engine like the 2006/07/early '08 GTI/GLI/Eos/B6 Passat got. Those engines were largely still based on the "old" belt driven engines like the ALH/AEG/AWM/BEW/BRM/AZG/AVH/BEV/AWP, etc. The BPY etc. engines' early on had issues with the cam follower driving the HPFP wearing through, look similar to the PD cam/lifter wear, and like the PDs, made much, much worse by use of improper oil. However UNlike the PDs (or any of the VAG TDIs), oil consumption compounded this, something many VAG gas engines have had issues with. They did issue a revised camshaft and follower for these, which would have been factory installed on any of the belt driven 2.0L DI turbo engines after about 2008 (so all the belt driven Rs). And really, with those, so long as you use the proper 5w40 502.00 spec oil, good oil filters, and keep it full, they are pretty robust engines. They also do not seem to have nearly as bad of an intake port gunking as the later DI engines for some reason. These use the same aluminum water pump inside the front of the block, driven by the timing belt, design as the other similar engines, a normal design rear main seal, etc. They had some sensor updates as well, mainly rail pressure sensors, as well as some lambda sensor issues.
The EA888 engines (the chain driven ones) can sometimes have plenty of timing chain warnings on the early ones, as the tensioners bleed down (there is a TSB for this, and an updated tensioner). However the later ones (2010+) already have the newer style tensioner, and they can quite often come apart at cold start with absolutely no warning prior whatsoever. None. Some will exhibit CKP/CMP correlation DTCs and some noise shortly before, and those can be saved albeit it is still an expensive and labor intensive job. The timing chain design on these is unique, and by far one of the dumbest I have ever seen (and I have worked on chain driven OHCs on engines from Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, Chrysler, Nissan, MB, BMW, and others). The crank sprocket does not index on to the crank with a conventional keyway or "D" shape, but instead uses this strange star gear thing that is difficult to describe. And it is not just one chain. There are three. One to run the camshafts, one to run the balance shafts, and one to run the oil pump. When you take the front pulley loose, the front sprocket has nothing to hold it tight to the crank, because it relies on the pulley for that. So it can jump off if you are not careful. It isn't like you can just expose the front of the engine and have the whole chain drive in front of you. There is an upper and lower cover. The mount is in the way on transverse applications, and the cam chain runs THROUGH the head. This is why it is an 8-hour job, even though it is done with the engine in the car (unlike the VR6 and I-5 engines that require transmission/engine separation) .
Thanks so much for this. Does the 1.8 TSI share all the potential problems of the 2010+ EA8888? Did they put the revised main seal on the 1.4 TSI? Seems like when I figure out how to get rid of all this old stuff a MK6 R and a 2019 Jetta 1.4 Sportwagen would be a good combination. Jeep Compass VS Sportwagen is still a possibility. You get a lot of stuff on the Compass for the same price and it's a simple NA motor which is a good thing. Don't know if there is a VAG COM equivalent for Jeeps. Thanks again.
 

tikal

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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Originally Posted by 2.2TDI View Post
"Seriously, people need to stop putting vw and their tdis on a pedistal, especially after what they did.."

So what motivated you to register for this forum?

The VW TDI deserves to be on a pedestal due to their lengthy history of durability and performance. Casting stones at the TDI won't resolve any buyer's remorse you may have with the TSI.

And let's not mix please the ethics/moral (or lack thereof) of a company executives (in this case VW) with the quality/durability/efficiency/performance/reliability (to some degree) of TDI engines their engineers/technicians/etc have put together since year xxxx.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
There is no "rubber". There is just the seal material, a single lip, glued to a piece of stamped steel, that falls off. Usually due to the crankcase pressure regulator valve failing, but not always.

 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
So the seal is metallic, not soft or pliable? There isn't a fine spring to keep it wrapped against crank shaft journal?

Some hydraulic cylinders rely on pressure to keep the lip against the ram, not sure of that's vws idea



And regardless what it's made of, very sad it's glued on. Such cheapness.



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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
No it is some sort of soft material, not idea what, but it is NOT like the conventional type crankshaft or camshaft seals. Although many other newer VAG engines DO use the same type of material, with the single lip (no spring), these are unique in that they are integral with the flange itself. Even other VAG engines that have the seal and flange combined are still more akin to the conventional type of construction. Not these.
 

jason_

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Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
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2015 s wagon dsg
Oh, so they willingly chose a more ****ty design?

That's even more ridiculous!


Seems it's what the vehicle world is turning into, poor quality, and poorer quality labor to repair those poor quality parts.

Gfs Lincoln, the all mighty Lincoln!!, a certified dealer was willing to release the car with an entire missing belly pan, who the service manager reassured me it wasn't necessary.

I said if yiy were an engineer you wouldn't be saying that, only because I'm sitting here since the shield fell off after your certified tech touched it last...


Back bolts came loose and backing up in snowing it pushed forward and ripped a side tank off the radiator.

I told him this dealer is a scam! You try and sell me a Lincoln, stuff your pockets with commission, then if I need repairs out of warranty you let it roll out the door with more missing parts then what i bought it with!!

He was getting frustrated. I was at the least somewhat polite and asked if I should open his office door for some fresh air.


Whatever.



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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
They are trying to keep costs down. Which is why so many components now come courtesy of China.

The latest this week are the Toyota oil filters for the new Camry hybrid (they went BACK to a spin on can style filter, supplied by Denso, made in China), and the transmission control module and integral solenoid pack for the Hydromatic 6T40 transmission... also made in China.

Then just yesterday (get this), a 2014 Yukon's tail lamp assembly, which was $600, because its internal LED driver died. Guess where it was made? Yep. China. SIX HUNDRED DOLLAR TAIL LIGHT. Seriously? :rolleyes:
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
The mkt tail lense is $1700 from Lincoln.

It's a single huge piece of plastic that spans the entire hatch, with the diodes and driver... No labor just the light assembly itself.

Hers has some condensation in it. Gonna let it go until it... Goes....

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truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
So it looks like we are getting expensive veneer on high end models and cheapened critical components. Wow 600 for a tail light. WOW at 1700.
 

RabbitGTI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
why not look at the iABED Rear Main Seal upgrade?
The seal ECS sells? That should fix it. A bit of thread wandering here, but are NTK parts any good? I need a crank angle sensor for one of my 2.5 Jettas and Rock Auto has a good price. Back to the TSI discussion :D
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
Any ideas on durability of 1.4t vs 1.8t? Do they have similar or different weak spots?
 

RabbitGTI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
Any ideas on durability of 1.4t vs 1.8t? Do they have similar or different weak spots?
I think the 1.8 TSI has the same crank seal and timing chain as the 2.0. The 1.4T has a timing belt and an old school mechanical tensioner as far as I know. I also think it has the old crank seal with carrier. My local VW dealer I've know for 30 years has sold a lot of 1.4 Jettas the last few years and he says they have been good, all he knows about is one turbo failure.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
I've heard alot of sad expensive unable to return stories regarding not using genuine vag components.

Im sure oil hammer has had a few cheap electrical repairs roll into the shop. If so I'm positive he can also suggest to avoid certain brands the ecm isn't happy about.

The dual radiator fans on a cr vw can be a headache since once has digital feed back and pwm, and the other is a dummy 12v and full blast, which is wired to the first fan with its own mini computer.....




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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Any ideas on durability of 1.4t vs 1.8t? Do they have similar or different weak spots?

The 1.4L is a totally different engine family, it is unique to itself (in our market). We saw it first, and briefly, in the short lived Jetta hybrid.

I have not seen any issues with them.

The "new" 1.8t is based on the existing 2.0t, which is of the EA888 engine family that came out in 2008. It is the newer generation, but that doesn't automatically make it better. Probably couldn't be any worse.

But I would take my old AWM 170hp 1.8t engine, even with its 225k miles, over a new 170hp 1.8t engine. Any day.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, but the 1.4 may be saddled with a lot of excess drag with AWD. Although they made AWD ALHs, too, so...

Much of what we get here is dictated by the myth that car companies believe every American wants excessively powered vehicles. I am not concerned with winning any races, I just like knowing I can finish them. Which is why I like my ALHs so much. Although truth be told, any belt driven OHC VAG engine is going to be able to last indefinitely with the proper care. The ALH just does so with a minimal outlay of fuel costs and can be mildly modded with no ill effects whatsoever.
 

RabbitGTI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
My thought as well
I think I would rather give up AWD than get stuck with the 1.8t.
The base models seem like a good value.
I'm trying to decide that now. I'm getting rid of the old stuff as a retirement move and really want to play around with AWD, but all things considered, it's between a Jeep Compass (AWD) and the FWD 1.4 Golf Sportwagen for family/wife vehicle. Jeep engine seems pretty solid and old school non DI, but I'm concerned about the rest of the vehicle. I might be wrong, but it seems that FCA sources a lot of crappy parts now and then which leads to problems. I also don't know if there is a VAGCOM equivalent for the Compass. On the bright side the Compass cabin is just outstanding. I did Manhattan to Wisconsin straight through with zero fatigue. None. Butt, hands, legs, everything was 100 % when I got out. I would add a MK6 Golf R for me to play with when I'm in a hurry.
 

tikal

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Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Yeah, but the 1.4 may be saddled with a lot of excess drag with AWD. Although they made AWD ALHs, too, so...

Much of what we get here is dictated by the myth that car companies believe every American wants excessively powered vehicles. I am not concerned with winning any races, I just like knowing I can finish them. Which is why I like my ALHs so much. Although truth be told, any belt driven OHC VAG engine is going to be able to last indefinitely with the proper care. The ALH just does so with a minimal outlay of fuel costs and can be mildly modded with no ill effects whatsoever.

Good points.

To sum it up it seems that the average American feels insecure not having an 'all terrain vehicle' that sits up, has so much horse power even it is used in mostly 'civilized road conditions'.

There are, of course, exceptions for people driving in mostly dirt and rough roads with snow, ice, mud, etc.
 

RabbitGTI

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Jul 20, 1997
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
B4 Passat Sedan
^^^ Ya, don't really "need" AWD except in a few situations, but there is a massive fun factor in other situations. I've been driving FWD VWs on winter tires (Blizzak, Nokian, General,etc..) forever. One car had a Quaiffe LSD installed. The real eye opener was the few times I co-drove EVOs and WRXs at rallycross and ice events. Whole new driving style and something new to learn. A Golf SW with 1.4 and 4MO would have plenty of power and a Haldex tune would add to the fun. The fuel economy and longevity would be a bonus.
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
Yeah, but the 1.4 may be saddled with a lot of excess drag with AWD. Although they made AWD ALHs, too, so...
Much of what we get here is dictated by the myth that car companies believe every American wants excessively powered vehicles. I am not concerned with winning any races, I just like knowing I can finish them. Which is why I like my ALHs so much. Although truth be told, any belt driven OHC VAG engine is going to be able to last indefinitely with the proper care. The ALH just does so with a minimal outlay of fuel costs and can be mildly modded with no ill effects whatsoever.
FCA for 2019 gave the 1.3L turbo engine to the Jeep Renegade, to haul 3500 lbs of the Trailhawk edition, with the 4x4, meatier wheel/tire combo and the exterior with the aerodynamics of a brick.

Granted, the 1.3L motor makes more hp and torque than the 1.4 TSI.

If VW believe that every American wants excessively powered vehicles,
Tiguan would not have the 184 hp Budack motor, but a GTI motor instead
Passat/Beetle would not have a detuned Tiguan engine, but the GTI motor instead
Jetta would not have a 1.4TSI, but a GTI motor instead, and the GLI would get the R engine.
And, there would be a Golf Sportwagen R offered.

I'm still wishing VW will bring the 2.5 V6-TSI engine from the Chinese Teramont to replace the VR6 in the Atlas. I prefer a boosted engine when it comes to ski season when I'm at 7000 feet elevation.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
FCA for 2019 gave the 1.3L turbo engine to the Jeep Renegade, to haul 3500 lbs of the Trailhawk edition, with the 4x4, meatier wheel/tire combo and the exterior with the aerodynamics of a brick.
Granted, the 1.3L motor makes more hp and torque than the 1.4 TSI.
If VW believe that every American wants excessively powered vehicles,
Tiguan would not have the 184 hp Budack motor, but a GTI motor instead
Passat/Beetle would not have a detuned Tiguan engine, but the GTI motor instead
Jetta would not have a 1.4TSI, but a GTI motor instead, and the GLI would get the R engine.
And, there would be a Golf Sportwagen R offered.
I'm still wishing VW will bring the 2.5 V6-TSI engine from the Chinese Teramont to replace the VR6 in the Atlas. I prefer a boosted engine when it comes to ski season when I'm at 7000 feet elevation.

Um, you do realize that all those cars you just listed are available with lesser output engines pretty much everywhere else, right? :rolleyes:

The current Tiguan, for instance, has three engine choices in Europe. We ONLY get the most powerful one.
We do not even get the real Passat, and Europe does not get ours, and the Beetle is going away. But in Europe, both the current Passat and Beetle are available with FAR less powerful engines than we have on offer. We cannot even get a manual transmission in them anymore.

So yes, I do believe that Volkswagen thinks Americans prefer more powerful, larger vehicles. So does GM. So does Toyota. So does Renault/Nissan. Did you know that the 1.6L engine we get here in the Versa Note is ONLY for us? The rest of the world gets a standard 1.2L engine, with an optional 1.5L.
 
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20IndigoBlue02

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Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
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2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
Um, you do realize that all those cars you just listed are available with lesser output engines pretty much everywhere else, right? :rolleyes:

The current Tiguan, for instance, has three engine choices in Europe. We ONLY get the most powerful one.
We do not even get the real Passat, and Europe does not get ours, and the Beetle is going away. But in Europe, both the current Passat and Beetle are available with FAR less powerful engines than we have on offer. We cannot even get a manual transmission in them anymore.

So yes, I do believe that Volkswagen thinks Americans prefer more powerful, larger vehicles. So does GM. So does Toyota. So does Renault/Nissan. Did you know that the 1.6L engine we get here in the Versa Note is ONLY for us? The rest of the world gets a standard 1.2L engine, with an optional 1.5L.
Yes, but the key word is "excessively". Are the powerplants available to the US market "excessively" powered relative to other markets, which do have powerplants that range from smaller/weaker to more powerful than what is offered for North America (the forbidden fruit)?

Look at the TDI's for instance. Was the 140 hp units "excessive" even though in Europe, they had offerings that were also smaller and weaker to more powerful than what they gave us?

ALH and BEW. Were those considered to be excessive? Even though MK4's did also have the more powerful ARL engine available to Europe, but not the US?
 
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