Aftermarket ECU

hbarca

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Location
Tampa
TDI
I am looking to buy the 1.9L TDI to "performance tune"
Dear forum:

Does anyone know of an aftermarket standalone ECU for the VW TDI 1.9L engine. I wanted to use the engine in a Lotus 7 build.

thanks!!

Scott
 

Hasenwerk

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Location
Quesnel, BC
TDI
1982 Cabriolet (BEW|VNT17|Stage4), 1989 VW TriStar Syncro soon-to-be CR TDI (CBEA), 2001 Ford Ranger Edge 4x4 (ALH|VNT17|R520|Stage4)
Dear forum:

Does anyone know of an aftermarket standalone ECU for the VW TDI 1.9L engine. I wanted to use the engine in a Lotus 7 build.

thanks!!

Scott
Why would you want to do this? A 1.9L TDI would mean with an external VE pump (95-03) or internal injectors aka Pumpe Düse (04/06). Both have ECUs are fully customizable with a decent software provider (Malone). They can remove the immobilizer, EGR, MAF etc, and can accommodate any size turbo and nozzles that you would want to run. If you are looking for someone to make a stand-alone harness please visit http://www.fastforward.ca and I can do something like this and have it 100% custom for your application. Unless you are looking for something "fun" to do, there's no reason to go fully custom aftermarket ECU on these engines.
 

hbarca

Active member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Location
Tampa
TDI
I am looking to buy the 1.9L TDI to "performance tune"
Why would you want to do this? A 1.9L TDI would mean with an external VE pump (95-03) or internal injectors aka Pumpe Düse (04/06). Both have ECUs are fully customizable with a decent software provider (Malone). They can remove the immobilizer, EGR, MAF etc, and can accommodate any size turbo and nozzles that you would want to run. If you are looking for someone to make a stand-alone harness please visit http://www.fastforward.ca and I can do something like this and have it 100% custom for your application. Unless you are looking for something "fun" to do, there's no reason to go fully custom aftermarket ECU on these engines.
If I can run a a VW ECU, then that would be the easiest way to go . The issue is that I won't need the clutch safety switch.

IF you would , please let me know if that is possible and who (Malone) is.

Many thanks!!

Scott
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
You can easily eliminate the clutch safety switch as QuickTD mentioned (just short the two wires together and the starter will go whenever you hit the key), however you will most likely want to keep the cruise switch on the clutch pedal, otherwise when you depress the clutch every time to shift, the engine will rev up due to the rate limiters built into the fuel delivery maps that only allow the RPM's to drop at a certain rate. This may be able to be tuned out, but if not, it makes it annoying to drive - been there, done that :).

Please keep us up to date on your TDI Lotus 7 build!
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I surmised that there are "rate of change maps" based on the fact that if you rev the engine in neutral and let off the throttle the RPM's drop slowly, but if you depress the clutch, they drop much faster. I wouldn't know one of those maps if it hit me upside the head :)
 

ryanp

Vendor
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Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
The PD ECU's are so simple to hack Aftermarket is pointless. Sounds like an interesting project!
 

Hasenwerk

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Location
Quesnel, BC
TDI
1982 Cabriolet (BEW|VNT17|Stage4), 1989 VW TriStar Syncro soon-to-be CR TDI (CBEA), 2001 Ford Ranger Edge 4x4 (ALH|VNT17|R520|Stage4)
If I can run a a VW ECU, then that would be the easiest way to go . The issue is that I won't need the clutch safety switch.

IF you would , please let me know if that is possible and who (Malone) is.

Many thanks!!

Scott
Clutch Switch
The clutch switch "F36" on the ECU isn't an interlock, it is there to prevent shudder when shifting gears. You have a few choices:

- Connect it correctly: so that (in the case of ALH|BEW) when the pedal is at rest it gets 12V and when pressed it's an open circuit.

- Hardwire it: We have many customers who want all this stuff removed and have no interested in cruise control, so F36 is hard-wired to 12V along with "F47" which is the brake switch. "F" (Brake Light) is hardwired to ground. This way, measuring block (in VCDS) has "000" for the pedal. Code the cruise control to be OFF and there won't be any shuddering issues.

I recommend that you keep the brake circuits active as it is a safety thing - pressing the brake pedal causes the ECU to reduce power, for obvious reasons...
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Along this vein, anyone running over 6300 RPMs on a stock ECU VE motor yet?
 

jsrmonster

Veteran Member - TDIClub Enthusiast
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Apr 22, 2002
Location
Red Lion, PA
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15 Golf SW DSG, RC3 piped, 99.5 Jetta Rocket PD150 6spd 4motion, 2000 ASV110 RC6 "Silverbullet" 5spd Race Car, 2003.5 Cummins QCLB 4x4 "Blue Monster" Jeep CRD juiced, MB Sprinter van juiced up
Along this vein, anyone running over 6300 RPMs on a stock ECU VE motor yet?


RC6 = 6000rpm
RC7 = 7000rpm

Been there done that on rally cars. Keep it in 2nd gear around the track and shoot out of the corners like a slingshot . You’ll want to run syndiesel past 6k.

Decel map is no problem. Diesel rpms drop like a rock when flatlined.

Jeff ;-))
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Apart from a "cool factor," unless you have very specific reasons to do so (eg. advantageous to hold a lower gear instead of upshifting in rally/drag racing), there is absolutely no point or advantage of running a Diesel engine at super high RPMs. Friction and pumping losses become large and combustion process gets worse. At the zenith of its development, the Audi Le Mans Diesel developed rated power at 5000 RPM.
 
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Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
when you build race engine, no one cares about lasting 30K miles at 400 HP. its about area under the curve. Why dont you say what you said at a tractor pull and everyone will point and laugh. 2000 hp rigs at 10K RPM. granted no tdi should be reving above 6K, you can but the taper off on the curve is drastic for so many reasons.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
I'm going with larger turbos (td04hl19t/hx40) on my compounds, and I'd rather have more headroom, it already was pulling hard right up to the 5k limiter with the last setup (gt1752/td04hl19t). I figure I'll be shifting even higher with the new setup to get them to spool somewhat quickly, and I'd rather not bump into the rev limiter as much.

I remember seeing some murmurs on how to do it in 8-bit MSA15, but never saw anything on EDC15 beyond guys saying you run into a hard limit at 6300 or thereabouts.
Decel map is no problem. Diesel rpms drop like a rock when flatlined.
Decel map? This also interests me.
I could see two possibilities, injecting small amounts of fuel at excessive advance to load the engine and bring it back down to idle, or conversely acting as a software dashpot to hang the revs a little on shifts. Got a map address so I can take a peek?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
granted no tdi should be reving above 6K, you can but the taper off on the curve is drastic for so many reasons.
plenty of idi guys rev past that, they've got heavier 8mm valve stems, too

Making your power at higher rpm is generally easier on engines, less torque means less cylinder pressure. Economy car motor just doesn't have the excess of iron that a DT or cummins has. Even at a glance, alu head, 4 bolts per cyl, little tiny rod bearings, everything built with a mind for weight...

See guys in europe making nutso power on stock connecting rods and cut stock pistons? Running big turbos that don't really do anything below 3500. Torque limiting is done just by turbo lag if not in the software.

Ideally, I'd like to limit to 600-700n/m for gearbox life, which really ain't much hp if you aren't spinning to the moon.
 
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Exenos

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Location
Ontario
TDI
02 Golf
plenty of idi guys rev past that, they've got heavier 8mm valve stems, too
From what I understand though di diesels have trouble burning the fuel in the shorter time window available at high rpms when compared to idi's. Might just be complete bunk though.
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
with a lightly modified head and stock internals im reving well into the 6400 rpm but i have other issues and dont go much past 6000, its where the power just is not there. If my engine had legs it would jump off a bridge!
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
From what I understand though di diesels have trouble burning the fuel in the shorter time window available at high rpms when compared to idi's. Might just be complete bunk though.
guys spinning 5500 on b series motors seem to run 40 deg or more of advance, so that certainly makes sense

Suppose it'd need a lot of tuning in order to both make power and stay together, probably wouldn't tolerate much variation in cetane either. Set timing for peak torque and limit it through fuel to keep the head down. More and more it looks like I'm gonna be looking into FUB's load cell dogbone mount, as dyno time's too expensive to be reflashing on the dyno, and datalogging through the computer is absolutely worthless with how slow it is.

That's a couple enormous upsides about the megasquirt ECUs, datalogging at 20hz and you can burn the ECU while you're driving down the road. Might have to see if someone's done a DBW firmware for a microsquirt yet. There was some talk of it a while back, B&G wouldn't touch it, but others were talking.
ETA: nope, they're still chewing the cud of "die by wire" and "I've got no idea how diesels work but I'll certainly tell you our ECU won't work with them in any way shape or form" and haltech will do it, but at a price of about 1800 bucks. :c
 
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Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
wth does your pic need to be so big ?! ^^
why is your screen resolution so small in 2017? even at 1080p on a 29" monitor its not even taking up more than 5/8s the screen. No one has time or is willing any more to resize pictures for people with screens still displaying at 480p lol, get with the program!
 

sam-

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Location
Belgium
TDI
Golf mk3 tdi AFN
Nice one Jukums, especially the 100-200km/h video avaible on your forum.
You dont mentions it but is this a stock short block ? What size are those TDR stage 3 nozzles please ?
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
why is your screen resolution so small in 2017? even at 1080p on a 29" monitor its not even taking up more than 5/8s the screen. No one has time or is willing any more to resize pictures for people with screens still displaying at 480p lol, get with the program!
i'm browsing with a smartphone like many other people in 2017, why don't YOU get with the program? ;)... desktops are so 2009 :rolleyes:
 

All Stock

Veteran Member
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Oct 6, 2014
Location
Michigan
TDI
AHU
Its not that your trimmer could spy on you..... its when it gets hacked in the middle of you using it and you spend the next month telling yourself it will grow back!
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
or a blender ... my house is pretty "dumb" ... not many connected devices aside from an ancient ps3 and my phone ... don't want my fridge or my ear hair trimmer spying on me :D
i'm browsing with a smartphone like many other people in 2017, why don't YOU get with the program? ;)... desktops are so 2009 :rolleyes:
BECAUSE THIS FORUM. its what 20? 30? years old? at least vwvortex updated there format and integration. this forum is like 1990 format and needs an overhaul. thats why i dont brows on my phone. im not addicted to it. rocking a galaxy 8btw
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Mongler,

It is a bother to have to scroll the screen just the read the text because there is an oversized picture. I have two tandem screens, neither of them small and the picture is out of the frame. But I don't use any 2400 x 4000 (or whatever) resolution, either.

To print/ copy in the Photos section, you must have used the 'Linked Thumbnail' Tab, then copy/ pasted to your post. Instead, if you hit the icon to the right of the linked thumbnail, there is an icon, which is green and blue with a gold/ brown frame. It brings up two additional medium sizes of the same picture. The bottom is a 'medium image', which when copying that image, it does not require the average size screen, like mine, to be scrolled, just to be able to read the text.

Nothing wrong with doing that, is there? No chest-thumping necessary. Just practical.
 
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