2005 Passat TDI - Rough Idle Problem

gtalum

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
Sarasota, FL
TDI
none yet
I have a problem, and no local mechanics seem to be able to find it. Our 2005 Passat TDI, with 155,000 miles on it, has started to idle very rough in one specific circumstance: at a stop, brakes applied, in Drive or Reverse gear. When I release the brakes, it smooths out. When I put it in Park or Neutral, it smooths out. It seems to drive fine, no troubles at all otherwise. Any ideas what could cause this issue?

The car has always vibrated, obviously since it's a TDI, but now it feels like it's shaking itself apart just in this specific situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

gtalum

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
Sarasota, FL
TDI
none yet
I'll see if I can take a look at the engine mounts, though I had them replaced once under extended warranty at around 95,000 miles.

I've read about failed CV joints possibly causing this issue too, is that a real possibility?

It seems weird that it's ONLY occurring in one specific circumstance: stopped and in gear.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
If you see red colored stains on the two side motor mounts, they are leaking. There are upgraded motor mounts now available.

If you have bad CV joints (or had them replaced with cheepo Chinese ones), yes, they can cause vibration.

A goofy alternator pulley can make the engine vibrate also.

A chain drive balance shaft assembly that's pretty worn can add to engine vibration.

There is a front engine mount attached to the front cross member that will cause the engine to "lift" if worn and you put the car in gear with your foot on the brake. That could add to the vibration if its worn.
 

thundershorts

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Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
other than the above menyioned areas to check, have you had the new software update/recall done? it may not fix your vib but it may help and its free.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
I have ridden in a B5.5 that had this symptom that he describes above, when shifted into neutral, the vibrations went away. It wasn't like it was anything the engine or mounts were doing, the trans seemed to invoke it.

Jon
 

sirpuddingfoot

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
05 Passat, 05 Jetta
The key is that vibration is when you are in gear, using the brakes to keep the car from moving. I suspect it may be a sign of the torque converter's eventual demise. I have noticed that our B5.5 will occasionally not immediately shift fully into gear, as if the torque converter gets stuck half way, then eventually realizes its mistake and clicks on all the way. The really strange part of that is that it doesn't act like its slipping, but more like it is pretending to have an extra gear between 2nd and 3rd and another between 3rd and 4th. I also wonder if perhaps the Chain Drive BSM is slightly out of phase, since it was added to the engine for the precise reason of eliminating that kind of vibration from the automatic transmission, or so I gather from reading.
 

gtalum

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
Sarasota, FL
TDI
none yet
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be taking a look this weekend.

Just to add to the mystery, now I notice it's shimmying under hard acceleration from about 30-40 mph.

I haven't noticed any problems in the transmission shifting gears, as it shifts smoothly and at the right times so far. I'll try to pay really close attention to that when I drive home tonight to be sure.
 
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thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
that would lead me to axles. get the recall flash just the same
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll be taking a look this weekend.

Just to add to the mystery, now I notice it's shimmying under hard acceleration from about 30-40 mph.

belts or alt pulley don't cause shimmying, axles are the culprit
 

NormF

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Location
Manitoba
TDI
2012 - Jetta TDI (daily driver -120,000 KMs), 2006 Jetta TDI , oldest son), 2004 (younger son), 2003 Beetle TDI ( daughter), 2004 Golf TDI - (son's Girl Friend)
I have a very similar if not the same problem with my 05 Passat. The car idles very rough when sitting at a light and in gear. In fact, the car vibrates so much that the doors rattle. Quite uncomfortable... Put the car in neutral and she's fine. or, as soon as I accelerate, the vibration disappears.

Replaced my axles last year and that made no difference. The dealer said that they can't figure out.. claim that they checked the alternator pulley, mounts, etc.. it must in the engine they said.. Then again, they claim that they haven't heard of the balance shaft being an issue. Personally, I suspect the balance shaft as the culprit. $$$$ :eek:
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
pop the hood and look at your alternator pulley, I believe the problem pulley was the black one and the new ones are silver/gray?

Jon
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
Ours is doing the same thing, but in neutral.

It was intermittent and now is more common.

Sometimes accelerating sometimes it it has a bit of a vibration.

Am hoping the alternator pulley thing (50k on it).

Why would bad CV cause it to vibrate in drive and stopped?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Ours is doing the same thing, but in neutral.

It was intermittent and now is more common.

Sometimes accelerating sometimes it it has a bit of a vibration.

Am hoping the alternator pulley thing (50k on it).

Why would bad CV cause it to vibrate in drive and stopped?
I have wondered at that, but have plenty of evidence that it does. One Passat owner replaced his axles at my last GTG. Started it up, did not even drive it, and knew it was fixed. He replaced cheap axles with RAXLES.

This was a chainless Passat.
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
OEM axles still in ours, though I think one is in early stages of going.

I always am in neutral at a stop, prior you could feel a bit of vibration when in drive, ergo neutral (been in other cars the same).

I could not do the last oil change (sub zero and icey driveway) the dealer did not mention any stuff, would expect them to if they did.

It will be another month before it warm enough and the driveway is clear.

Usually not bad, but a couple of times at idle car was vibration a lot.
 

spiceredwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Edmonton
TDI
06 wagon
Mine vibrates at idle, its kind of a shock after the silky quiet smooth quality ride when in motion. The alternator pulley, front engine mounts bsm and cam are all new. When I replaced the CV boot I saw a four ring sticker on the axle hopefully the Chinese are not cloning stickers as well.
I think the only way to have no vibrations is a six cylinder Subaru, the opposing cylinders cancel the vibes before the get created. Problem with Subaru is the AWD burns extra fuel.
 

gtalum

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Location
Sarasota, FL
TDI
none yet
Ok, an update:

I had just replaced the alternator and done a timing belt change, so I knew those weren't related to the problem.

I ended up replacing the engine mounts and transmission mounts, and that cleared up the vibration problem when stopped and in gear. In fact, the car is running much smoother and quieter than it has probably in a year or two. I guess those mounts just failed gradually and we didn't notice until the vibration became unbearable.

Second, as I was paying closer attention I noticed a distinct "wobble" in the steering under acceleration between 30 and 40 mph. I replaced the drivers' side CV axle and that cleared up too.

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!
 

KCMike

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Location
KC
TDI
'04 Passat GLS wagon
Does anyone have any thoughts on how much of a factor the transmission mounts play in the vibration issue? I have sorted through everything except the cam and transmission mounts. Fixing the vibration with new transmission mounts would be a lot better than a new cam. BTW, how big a job is the transmission mounts?
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
Ok, an update:

I had just replaced the alternator and done a timing belt change, so I knew those weren't related to the problem.

I ended up replacing the engine mounts and transmission mounts, and that cleared up the vibration problem when stopped and in gear. In fact, the car is running much smoother and quieter than it has probably in a year or two. I guess those mounts just failed gradually and we didn't notice until the vibration became unbearable.

Second, as I was paying closer attention I noticed a distinct "wobble" in the steering under acceleration between 30 and 40 mph. I replaced the drivers' side CV axle and that cleared up too.

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!
Did you have the red oil or just go bad (or leak so slowly not evident?)
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
... The really strange part of that is that it doesn't act like its slipping, but more like it is pretending to have an extra gear between 2nd and 3rd and another between 3rd and 4th.
One of the other, not both. The transmission changes between hydraulic and mechanical (lock-up) to produce the effect of a six speed. This can be seen by leaving the VCDS turned on and monitoring the transmission solenoids as they change states. 1 is hydraulic only, 4 and 5 are mechanical only (after a brief moment of slip for shift smoothness), 2 and 3 are hydraulic and / or mechanical depending on acceleration and load. It's the change from hydraulic to mechanical that happens in either 2 or in 3 that makes that single ratio seem like two.

... I think the only way to have no vibrations is a six cylinder Subaru, the opposing cylinders cancel the vibes before the get created. Problem with Subaru is the AWD burns extra fuel.
Any six cylinder four stroke engine (whether flat, in-line, or V with 60 or 90, or 15 degree angle) with 120 degree power pulses will be inherently smooth,
but still not as smooth as an 8 (with 90 degree pulse intervals),
or a 10 (with 72 degrees between pulses)
or a 12 (with 60 degrees between pulses),
or a rotary piston engine having odd numbers of cylinders,
or any of a dozen other designs.
 
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evivant

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Location
Northfield Mn
TDI
06 jetta brm , 04 jetta manual with hidden hitch, 04 passat, 04 jetta
chinese axles

I thought you guys were crazy. I put chinese axles on my passat and had the crazy idle vibration. Lucky for me i saved the old axles. I rebuilt them with a kit from blauparts and reinstalled. Problem solved, amazing.
 

Smokerr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
Has anyone had the power steering pump fail casing vibrations.

I picking up more vibrations periodically when I turn the steering wheel.

Fluid looks good, something in the power steering resevoir.

Steering secotr? never had a car before, I know there is a ram of some kind down there
 

gigi123

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Location
Dallas
TDI
2002 Jetta
I have a Passat with the idle vibration when in gear, so I am looking for solutions, too. Just read about the axles, and trying to understand why the axles would transfer vibrations... Did anybody measure the axles, OEM and chinese? I am thinking that maybe the aftermarket ones are too long/short and causing the transmission to move from its normal position?
 
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