Dealership Horror Story!

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dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Wife's 09 Jetta sedan tdi with 11,000 miles. She reluctantly took it to the dealership for the warranty oil change on Monday. Friday she starts having trouble. Blinking glow plug light and lack of power under load.Called the service manager at the local dealership and he said it was probably the brake switch. Which at first I didn't think possible. Checked here with the forum and a couple members said they had the same or similar problem.I test drove it after I got home and when I started it the check engine light was on,but not the blinking glow plug light. I drove it out the road and it seemed to run okay. I put the cruise control on and it functioned as it should. Then the glow plug light started to blink and there was a chime. I then tried the cruise control.............it wouldn't work. So, I'm thinking its the brake switch just as the service manager said. Wife takes it into the dealership Monday to get it worked on. While she is waiting to it to be worked on the manager comes out and ask if she has someone that can pick her up.There are codes on it that they have no idea what they are and need to call VW Tech and it will be awhile. They give her a loaner to drive home. She calls me and explains the situation. This isn't good. At 2pm they call and say we got contaminated fuel and there is metal throughout the fuel system and $6,500 damage. I'm really not buying this and go to the dealership and talk to the service manager. He says that there was metal in the fuel tank and metal in the fuel filter and shows me some fuel in a one gallon container with some very fine metal particles in it and a Mountain Dew bottle full of fuel that they will send to VW because VW will want a fuel sample. If it wasn't for the seriousness of the whole thing, thats laughable. They also said that they drained approximately 12 gallons from the fuel tank that was also contaminated with lots of metal. I leave the dealership and go talk to my regular diesel mechanic. He is quite skeptical,wondering how metal could get though the whole fuel system even if it was in the tank. I then call a towing company with a rolloff and meet them at the dealership. I then tell the dealership to box up any loose parts and I'm taking my car home. For some reason the mechanic seems to want me to leave the service bay and go tell the service manager what I'm going to do. I tell him I'm staying here with the car and my wife is taking care of the bill. $338.00. What do you guys think? Oh.........one other thing. The car was purchased at VW of Langhorne from Chris Farnham. What a mistake it was to take it to the VW dealership here in Wheeling,WV. What a nightmare this is turning out to be.

Here is a list of parts needed for replacement or repair from the dealership:

Diesel fuel filter remove & replace 90
Fuel cooler remove & reinstall 110
Fuel gauge sender remove & reinstall 90
Electric fuel pump remove & reinstall 130
Fuel tank remove & reinstall 470
Electric fuel pump remove & reinstall 70
4 injectors remove & reinstall 290
Technical check 500
Distibution rail remove & reinstall 130
Supply line remove & reinstall 200
Return line remove & reinstall 200
Toothed belt remove & reinstall 220
High pressure pump remove & reinstall 250

Mr & Mrs Unhappy Dweisel
 
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Turbine Suburban

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
2009 6 manual Gone! V6 Mustang now.
Fuel pump let go?

There is no way a pump form any station pumped metal. IIRC, the fuel that is not used is recirculated from the filter can back to the tank. SO if the fuel pump fails, I could see that being the "generator" for this.

Bummer.

Keep us informed.
 

GGK

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Location
High Desert in NM
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan
I have never heard of this. I also subscribe to the diesel place and never have seen anything reported like that. Its seems a bit suspicious to say the least. I would have my own test done on the fuel to find out what kind of metal is in the fuel. I would also think that the filter in the car would have stopped the metal flakes unless they use a large # micron filter. You would think the filter would have become clogged if that much metal was in the fuel.
 

Turbine Suburban

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
2009 6 manual Gone! V6 Mustang now.
I would think even if they put in kmart oil, it would not do this, but maybe they put in the wrong oil? What does the receipt say?
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
dweisel said:
Wife's 09 Jetta sedan tdi with 11,000 miles. She reluctantly took it to the dealership for the warranty oil change on Monday. Friday she starts having trouble. Blinking glow plug light and lack of power under load.Called the service manager at the local dealership and he said it was probably the brake switch. Which at first I didn't think possible. Checked here with the forum and a couple members said they had the same or similar problem.I test drove it after I got home and when I started it the check engine light was on,but not the blinking glow plug light. I drove it out the road and it seemed to run okay. I put the cruise control on and it functioned as it should. Then the glow plug light started to blink and there was a chime. I then tried the cruise control.............it wouldn't work. So, I'm thinking its the brake switch just as the service manager said. Wife takes it into the dealership Monday to get it worked on. While she is waiting to it to be worked on the manager comes out and ask if she has someone that can pick her up.There are codes on it that they have no idea what they are and need to call VW Tech and it will be awhile. They give her a loaner to drive home. She calls me and explains the situation. This isn't good. At 2pm they call and say we got contaminated fuel and there is metal throughout the fuel system and $6,500 damage. I'm really not buying this and go to the dealership and talk to the service manager. He says that there was metal in the fuel tank and metal in the fuel filter and shows me some fuel in a one gallon container with some very fine metal particles in it and a Mountain Dew bottle full of fuel that they will send to VW because VW will want a fuel sample. If it wasn't for the seriousness of the whole thing, thats laughable. They also said that they drained approximately 12 gallons from the fuel tank that was also contaminated with lots of metal. I leave the dealership and go talk to my regular diesel mechanic. He is quite skeptical,wondering how metal could get though the whole fuel system even if it was in the tank. I then call a towing company with a rolloff and meet them at the dealership. I then tell the dealership to box up any loose parts and I'm taking my car home. For some reason the mechanic seems to want me to leave the service bay and go tell the service manager what I'm going to do. I tell him I'm staying here with the car and my wife is taking care of the bill. $338.00. What do you guys think? Oh.........one other thing. The car was purchased at VW of Langhorne from Chris Farnham. What a mistake it was to take it to the VW dealership here in Wheeling,WV. What a nightmare this is turning out to be.

Here is a list of parts needed for replacement or repair from the dealership:

Diesel fuel filter remove & replace 90
Fuel cooler remove & reinstall 110
Fuel gauge sender remove & reinstall 90
Electric fuel pump remove & reinstall 130
Fuel tank remove & reinstall 470
Electric fuel pump remove & reinstall 70
4 injectors remove & reinstall 290
Technical check 500
Distibution rail remove & reinstall 130
Supply line remove & reinstall 200
Return line remove & reinstall 200
Toothed belt remove & reinstall 220
High pressure pump remove & reinstall 250

Mr & Mrs Unhappy Dweisel
What this sounds like is that they drained the oil and started the car without replacing the oil in the car. They caught it, filled it and sent you on your way.... damage done. What you will find is that the shavings recovered are various pieces from your engine. Sorry, but I have seen similar things occur. The lying has only just begun.
 

GGK

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Location
High Desert in NM
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan
thebigarniedog said:
What this sounds like is that they drained the oil and started the car without replacing the oil in the car. They caught it, filled it and sent you on your way.... damage done. What you will find is that the shavings recovered are various pieces from your engine. Sorry, but I have seen similar things occur. The lying has only just begun.
My vote....
Out of curiosity, had you fueled up after the oil change? If so can you get a sample from the station? Sounds like you need to CYA...
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
The fuel filter should protect the engine from particulate matter in the tank, whatever the source. Metallic particles in the tank, metallic particles in the fuel filter DOES NOT mean particles made it through the filter and entered the high pressure pump. That's what fuel filters are for.

It is possible the particles came from a high pressure pump that was failing, with the particles originating at the engine and flowing back to the tank with the return flow. That should be a warranty issue.

In fact, all of this should be a warranty issue. Hold firm.
 

Turbine Suburban

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
2009 6 manual Gone! V6 Mustang now.
I would want to be there when the fuel pump is pulled and disassembled.

Just seems to be too many stories like these floating around....
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
I told the dealership that we fuel two other diesels at the same station. 09 JSW tdi and 03 Beetle tdi. The Beetle gets fuel twice a week there. No problems with either of the two other diesels. Tonight I topped off the Beetle and got a fuel sample in a clear,clean container from the same pump my wife fueled the Jetta Sedan out of. Clear as clear could be. It looks clean enough to drink! We've got 20+ years of diesel driving and never once had a fuel problem.

The problem vehicle is now in the garage at home. You can look into the fuel tank and see fine metal in the 1/2 inch of fuel thats left in the tank. Where it came from is anyone's guess. I say it didn't come from any fuel station.

We should get a call from VW Customer Care sometime tomorrow.

Mr & Mrs Unhappy Dweisel
 

EnthymematisHabilis

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Location
Lincoln, NE
TDI
2000 Jetta 1.9TDI
If the stealership has done all your service so far you should be able to nail them or VWoA to the wall for the damages. No way contamination in the tank did damage, or if it did, it means faulty fuel system or filter (which is, again, the stealership or VWoA's warranty issue to fix). But keep a cool head because if you take your car out of their shop at this point they may quickly develop issues with honoring any kind of warranty.

I have no idea if this is possible, but perhaps your car insurance company can assist in making them give you a brand new car. Seems to me if they screwed up your car badly enough then it's essentially "totalled" by the stealership's "service". Also, call VWoA and complain to the customer service department. Give them names of people you've dealt with so far and keep a list of people you've talked with, just keep moving up the ladder until you get results.

VWoA Customer Service 1-800-822-8987
 

Ted Hurst

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Location
44224
TDI
2015 GSW
A few months ago I was at World Cars in Medina, Ohio. I was inquiring about having my DMF checked out and there was an 09 Silver Jetta TDI sedan with about 5 mechanics pushing it around the shop. I asked what was wrong and they told me there was metal in the fuel system! They didn't want to tell me much more about it nor did they want to listen to my DMF unless the car was broken! I felt like blowing a head gasket.
 

Turbine Suburban

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Location
Upstate NY
TDI
2009 6 manual Gone! V6 Mustang now.
If it is a fuel pump problem, I might have to reconsider my additive strategy to up the lube. So far, the additives I have tried netted me nada in performance.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I think joetdi reported a case of the fuel pump's innards coming apart and blowing metal all through the fuel system on a CBEA engine. I bet that is your problem, and not contaminated fuel at all.:cool:
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
Fuel stations and their suppliers usually keep pretty good logs and records of their fuel, it's QC checks, distribution, etc. I suspect if you contact the station and their supplier, you will get some assistance in your dealings with the dealership in the event that VW does not step up. As with the others, I am highly suspicious of the dealerships claims.
Bob
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Keep any fuel receipts you have for all your diesel vehicles. If you routinely fuel at the same station, and have receipts, then the sump of the beetle might be relevant. Should not have to lawyer these kinds of things, but they are trying to push you in a corner.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
It would be nice if vw stepped up to the plate. Unfortunately, I fear that the reality is that your going to have to have it taken apart by someone with a lot of letters after their name and the metal examined by a metallurgist. Hopefully you have retained all the parts. And yes, it is lawyer time as soon as VW tells you to pound salt.
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
Sounds like they ran the engine dry.Look likes stealer tooef another :( :( :( engine
 
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Lee_Taylor

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
Kent, England
TDI
Audi A3 1.4 COD
If it was contaminated fuel then you would be highly unlikely to be the only person affected. In any event how would it get past the fuel filter? I think Oilhammer has diagnosed it correctly, the fuel pump has disintegrated. This has to be a warranty issue on an 09 engine.
 

DPM

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Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
Metal in the fuel tank (as stated already) has come OUT of the fuel system, specifically the HP pump. Not unusual in PSA HDIs. Whilst the injectors aren't usually damaged, the little inlet filter on each gets blocked. Likewise the rail-pressure control valve can either block, or stick open.
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
I guess what agrivates me about the whole thing is the service dept at the dealer went right to contaminated fuel (non warranted), skipping to do we have a mechanical failure somewhere in the car that is causing the problem?(warranted) I'll get oil and fuel samples from all 3 of our tdi's and see what the results are. I can pull the fuel filter on the two other cars and see if there is any metal in the fuel canister or filter and also have test run on them. VW Customer Care is supposed to call back sometime today. We'll see what they have to say. Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

The Unhappy Dweisel Family
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Just wow. You need to hold VOA to the fire on this one. From what you describe, I would say the high pressure pump is chewing it's self up. The reason the metal bits get back to the tank is that as far as I can tell from Bentleys, there is no filtering on the return from the high pressure pump/injectors. If the contaminated fuel was introduced by filling the tank, the contamination would be filtered out by the FF. I'm willing to bet that the metal particles are to big to make it through the FF.

Does anyone know how many microns a FF filters down to?

Assuming that you pumped in contaminated fuel is just nonsense. if a station was dispensing contaminated fuel, there would be a whole lot more cars and trucks with problems than yours. I think that VOA needs to prove that contaminated fuel caused the problem and not make assumptions without further investigation.

Definably get VOAs arbitration involved. if they dissemble the high pressure pump, they should be able to identify the actual cause of the problem.

Oh ya, don't do anything to the car without VOA in the loop...............
 
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Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
thebigarniedog said:
It would be nice if vw stepped up to the plate. Unfortunately, I fear that the reality is that your going to have to have it taken apart by someone with a lot of letters after their name and the metal examined by a metallurgist. Hopefully you have retained all the parts. And yes, it is lawyer time as soon as VW tells you to pound salt.
+1. Sage advice given by the BigDog here & is worth repeating. Document every thing you do. Take photos, keep notes, records, samples, etc. While awaiting contact from VWNA, some time researching attorneys so that you are not behind if they tell you to take a hike. Good luck.
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Location
Fail Command (Central Ohio)
TDI
1998 Jetta tdi
Turbine Suburban said:
\
Nah. The metal is in the FUEL not the OIL.
Per the dealership (I know, not exactly the Oracle of Delphi) the metal is everywhere and took out everything (see list of needed repair parts per the dealer). At the risk of stating the obvious, pray that vw steps up to the plate and warrants this. The cost of proving otherwise (without figuring the cost of the lawyer) will exceed the cost of the engine.
 

abarns

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Location
Killeen, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI Pkg 1
Call me crazy but I would expect the fuel filter would filter out any particles big enough for you to see. I doubt the contamination came from a fuel pump... sounds like this is a warranty issue and needs to be addressed as such. Make them hold up their end of the deal.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
when the fule pump is opened up and looks like a bomb went off, you think they will claim the damage was caused by the metal shavings in the bad fuel?

chicken or the egg! The documentation from gas station will be key.
 
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