gt1756 hybrids .. rate or hate

gmo

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after doing a good bit of digging on the board it seem for the most part folk pick 2052 over 1756.. ther 1756 is not very popular mod and ive seen it push close to 250bhp on some hard pushed units n sub zero temps on dyno, it seem a cheap and cheerful bolt on for a pd for us who cant just shell out for full gtb kits
what your bolt on choice for hybrid on pd an why. 2052/2056 or 1756 or other??
.. my car will be mainly driven hard on tsity b roads and mid term goal of 23o-240bhp and 380lb and as punchy as poss.
(2052 is never really used in uk tbh)
thanks for input
 
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sam-

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if you get some skill to adapt yourself the turbo, take a gtb2060vklr or gtd2060vzk, it can make boost pretty quickly and still good if you choose to go with nozzle upgrade for more power.
 

adamss24

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if you get some skill to adapt yourself the turbo, take a gtb2060vklr or gtd2060vzk, it can make boost pretty quickly and still good if you choose to go with nozzle upgrade for more power.
The vklr are very problematic, they sufer with high egt and bolts holding chra come undone wrecking the compressor or turbine/vnt nozzle ring...
I would use a gtb2056v Or a 1756vk if you want quick boost! Hybrid based gt2052v. Will work but i would upgrade the turbine as well and it will still work worse than a used gtb turbo!
 

gmo

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The vklr are very problematic, they sufer with high egt and bolts holding chra come undone wrecking the compressor or turbine/vnt nozzle ring...
I would use a gtb2056v Or a 1756vk if you want quick boost! Hybrid based gt2052v. Will work but i would upgrade the turbine as well and it will still work worse than a used gtb turbo!
next turbo is deffo a gtb2056vk with 9 or 11 blade billet wheel mate , you reckon a gt2052 would spool better make same boost 1756 and hold boost in more stable fashion.. no one seems to use them round here , everyone i know picks the 1756 over the 2052 or hybrid 2060 or x man 1856 hybrid.
 
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CNGVW

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I have run 1722 ,1756,2060 on the Beetle in the real world of roadracing .
We ran the 1722 at 27 lb of boost for a few years worked very good but ran out of steam a 4000 we did test the 2060 but I did not like how it pulled of the turn.
The 1756 work great on the track it pulled so hard of ever turn . It would walk BMW, Poesches too . It was in a ALH build.
 

gmo

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I have run 1722 ,1756,2060 on the Beetle in the real world of roadracing .
We ran the 1722 at 27 lb of boost for a few years worked very good but ran out of steam a 4000 we did test the 2060 but I did not like how it pulled of the turn.
The 1756 work great on the track it pulled so hard of ever turn . It would walk BMW, Poesches too . It was in a ALH build.

gt or newer gtbs mate .. i ran a va with aa blade at 33 peak and held 28. is was like **** oif **** but ran out of puff early
 

[486]

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doing it again, I'd ditch the small frame turbos right off the bat and find something of proper size like a VGT s200, or a VGT holset off a cummins dodge

like injectors, just buy ones of proper size to start with
 

adamss24

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doing it again, I'd ditch the small frame turbos right off the bat and find something of proper size like a VGT s200, or a VGT holset off a cummins dodge

like injectors, just buy ones of proper size to start with
A s200 is a bit overkill on a puny 1.9 tdi however a. Gtb2260vk is plenty big enough for it and with decent lag so wont spool at 4k rpms
 

gmo

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A s200 is a bit overkill on a puny 1.9 tdi however a. Gtb2260vk is plenty big enough for it and with decent lag so wont spool at 4k rpms
that what i was thinking mate . darkside had a holest hx on a 1.9 pd arl and really make any boost at alltill 3k some like 50lb and 40 bhp at 3k lol and peaked about 4. fine for 1/4 mile stuff but that about it. mind you when it got wound up the graph shot up lol they had few with john deere 300sx vnt what was more resonsive iirc lol

i drive on twisty north uk b roads so a punchy turbo is must have, 260 bhp and 400lb is goal but the more midrange the better, i dont want to have rev its cock off to get full boost... why can you have antilag on dervs lol
 

adamss24

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a friend of mine has a pd 1.9 tdi vw caddy with a darkside gtb2260vk kit on it, aftermarket forged rods, firad large nozzles (something really silly +180%) and it goes like clappers! It did cost an arm and leg but it really goes. I have not driven the van- just been in the passenger seat but it does shift nicely!
 

Mongler98

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I cant hate on any turbo, no matter the size. more vroom vroom woshhhh
 

adamss24

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next turbo is deffo a gtb2056vk with 9 or 11 blade billet wheel mate , you reckon a gt2052 would spool better make same boost 1756 and hold boost in more stable fashion.. no one seems to use them round here , everyone i know picks the 1756 over the 2052 or hybrid 2060 or x man 1856 hybrid.
I have fitted a gtb1756vk on a 2.0 tdi quattro audi a3 2007 model, it was going greață with a remap from Unicorn Racing, however it wasnt without issues,The manifold and turbo kit(a gtb2260vk in the beginning) where from Xman with one of his fancy billet compressor wheels however it was very slow to spool, badly adjusted leaking EMP and the customer sent it back. I then fitted a 1756vk core to it and it was a blast to drive- quick spooling and loads of torque from tick over. The customer drove it hard for a year or two till the car got written off due to a minor accident. The xman kit came with a log style manifold which needed extensive modification to fit: cut and shut and a new flange to fit the new style gtb1756vk exhaust flange. Personally I can live with a bit of lag and I will rather take a stock cast wheel over a shiny billet wheel of unknown origin !
 

gmo

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I have fitted a gtb1756vk on a 2.0 tdi quattro audi a3 2007 model, it was going greață with a remap from Unicorn Racing, however it wasnt without issues,The manifold and turbo kit(a gtb2260vk in the beginning) where from Xman with one of his fancy billet compressor wheels however it was very slow to spool, badly adjusted leaking EMP and the customer sent it back. I then fitted a 1756vk core to it and it was a blast to drive- quick spooling and loads of torque from tick over. The customer drove it hard for a year or two till the car got written off due to a minor accident. The xman kit came with a log style manifold which needed extensive modification to fit: cut and shut and a new flange to fit the new style gtb1756vk exhaust flange. Personally I can live with a bit of lag and I will rather take a stock cast wheel over a shiny billet wheel of unknown origin !
i lke billet just for fact i know its stronger than cast mate as long it from good metal and made in us or eu and great choice of styles .. the 11 blade made huge difference to spool on my vb

i had few issue with xman. vnt set mile out and

i didnt know you could fit a 1756 core ina 2260? can you elaborate please.
 

adamss24

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Its almost a direct fit however the core needs the compressor housing as well- on the gtb2260vk the chra is one piece steel but on the gtb 1756vk the chra is conventional(2 piece) and the back plate is held with screws just like on the gt series...
 

crazyrunner33

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The downside about billet wheels is that while they can be made to out perform a cast wheel at peak power, but they're typically slower to respond. A billet wheel is almost always heavier than a cast wheel of the same size.
 

adamss24

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The downside about billet wheels is that while they can be made to out perform a cast wheel at peak power, but they're typically slower to respond. A billet wheel is almost always heavier than a cast wheel of the same size.
Almost all compressor wheels i used in the hybrid turbos I have made were slower to respond compared with cast wheels on OEM turbos. I have seen many claims that compressor wheels are stronger than cast wheels but invariably every turbo I have rebuilt was made with a larger compressor wheel so it’s bound to perform differently. Exception was a gtb2260vk to which I fitted a titanium compressor wheel of almos the same dimensions (60mm) but with larger trim and 10 blades instead of the usual 6+6. It made boost ok although it was a lot slower to make boost in the low range and it surged badly in the 70-80 Mph/2500-3000 rpms range and the drivetrain did not liked it one bit ! It was also much noisier than a similar stock gtb2260vk on boost ! If OEM turbo comes with billet wheel then by all means use it, if it doesn’t then leave the cast wheel in there- it does just fine !
 

gmo

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Almost all compressor wheels i used in the hybrid turbos I have made were slower to respond compared with cast wheels on OEM turbos. I have seen many claims that compressor wheels are stronger than cast wheels but invariably every turbo I have rebuilt was made with a larger compressor wheel so it’s bound to perform differently. Exception was a gtb2260vk to which I fitted a titanium compressor wheel of almos the same dimensions (60mm) but with larger trim and 10 blades instead of the usual 6+6. It made boost ok although it was a lot slower to make boost in the low range and it surged badly in the 70-80 Mph/2500-3000 rpms range and the drivetrain did not liked it one bit ! It was also much noisier than a similar stock gtb2260vk on boost ! If OEM turbo comes with billet wheel then by all means use it, if it doesn’t then leave the cast wheel in there- it does just fine !

"I have seen many claims that compressor wheels are stronger than cast wheels but invariably every turbo I have rebuilt was made with a larger compressor wheel so it’s bound to perform differently .. so how can you compare cast to billet?

EFR, GTX, even new GTD have billet. its lighter and stronger. if the turbo dosnt perform better with billet then the turbo has not been set up proper after the rebuild.. every tuner and turbo builder in uk will tell you billet over cast every time. billet is far stronger that cast..just look at what billet parts are used over cast in performance builds.. billet blocks , heads , flywheel cranks . all far stronger easier to ballance and often a good bit lighter.

i put a 11 blade billet in my vb hybrid and it made a massive difference in spool time. it was savage lol . far better than heavy brittle cast unit.

cast works fine . but billet it better..imo.. lets just agree to disagree on this one mate, i didn come here to argue.
 

adamss24

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Your 11 blade billet wheel must have been a better design to what i have used! To be honest, the 11 blades many have used are slower to build boost from low revs and a lot noisier than 6+6 jobbies however if its nice and shiny they must be better! Efr turbos are a lot different and the upgrades doesnt just end at the compressor side!

Gtx series are better suited to petrol engines as they make boost higher up the rev range! If a billet wheel is designed the same as the cast wheel it replaces but its lighter then it will spool better however there are so many variables and most turbos are upgraded with wheels with different trims and larger exducers too! There are many ways to skin a cat...
 

gmo

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Your 11 blade billet wheel must have been a better design to what i have used! To be honest, the 11 blades many have used are slower to build boost from low revs and a lot noisier than 6+6 jobbies however if its nice and shiny they must be better! Efr turbos are a lot different and the upgrades doesnt just end at the compressor side!
Gtx series are better suited to petrol engines as they make boost higher up the rev range! If a billet wheel is designed the same as the cast wheel it replaces but its lighter then it will spool better however there are so many variables and most turbos are upgraded with wheels with different trims and larger exducers too! There are many ways to skin a cat...
i suppose i could put it this way, a well made and designed cast wheel will work better than a badly designed billet one. different pitch , curve tip height ect. but that being said all thing being equal a billet will out perform a cast, plus its stronger woth it a big plus
i had a gtx style 11mate and tbh it was a LOT quieter .. my stock va make more noise than the vb with the gtx 11..
.. also when i was looking to buy my next hybrid , iended up with td md445 from turbo dynamic) but also spoke to AET, turbo technics, the turbo clinic , trp and x man and all said 11 blade for fast spool and 6x6 for better top end. all i know is what i exp matched what they said, i went 6x6 this time :)
 
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adamss24

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6+6 blades always make more boost low down/mid range but they choke at high speeds. Gtx style 10/11 blades do surge badly on lower revs and support more flow as the revs climb ! As above, a billet compressor wheel can be made lighter than a cast one however many I have seen are built heavier by many grams compared to similar cast wheels OEM...
 

adamss24

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I would not compare the va to the vb, the vb has a better exhaust housing and vnt mechanism !
 

gmo

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6+6 blades always make more boost low down/mid range but they choke at high speeds. Gtx style 10/11 blades do surge badly on lower revs and support more flow as the revs climb ! As above, a billet compressor wheel can be made lighter than a cast one however many I have seen are built heavier by many grams compared to similar cast wheels OEM...
most billets are 20% lighter, my 11 blade do not surge as low revs , they spool up very quick but do seem to have less top end pull than 6x6.. go ask any decant turbo maker.. they echo what ive been saying.
 

[486]

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6+6 blades always make more boost low down/mid range but they choke at high speeds. Gtx style 10/11 blades do surge badly on lower revs and support more flow as the revs climb ! As above, a billet compressor wheel can be made lighter than a cast one however many I have seen are built heavier by many grams compared to similar cast wheels OEM...
It's like all your info is flipped backwards

the two-height inducer compressor flows more but surges ever so slightly earlier
Think of the outer ones as a separate compression stage from the rest, it packs in a slightly larger volume from the greater open space.
Much like a thinner profile hub, it lets you choke flow more, but the surge line will also move to the right as that extra air has very little angular velocity being that it's close to the compressor's axis. Little velocity means little ability to support any sort of pressure ratio.

machined wheels are generally regarded to be stronger and lighter, but there's so much geometry changes going on that you can't really compare the two reliably.

You can do a lot of nutty (and stupid) geometry stuff to a machined wheel that on a cast wheel you wouldn't get from prototyping to the actual casting process. All wheels start off prototyped as a machined wheel, the casting tooling is only made up after the design work is all done with machined prototypes.
 

adamss24

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Sorry if My information seems to contradict your facts however I experienced the opposite: less flow on a billet wheel compared to a cast OEM wheel. Must have been a badly designed compressor wheel... I have had better results with stock larger turbos than with modified ones. I have experienced with quite a few billet compressor wheels and the most notable designs features are extra tip height, slimmer hubs and larger inducers...they do make huge differences compared with OEM cast wheels. As 486 noted, there are so many things you can change in a low run milled compressor that it’s rather difficult to compare like for like.
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