.216 stage 3 malone tune

Having literally gone through that exact kind of noise this past week, the problem was the distribution valve in the pump head. After having the nozzles brought to where they are within (hopefully) perfect tolerance, an error in the pump will be magnified.I had a loud "tink, tink, etc. coming out of what sounded like the #1 cylinder valve cover. I replaced the DV and the noise in that cylinder went away. The difference between us is I just had my pump rebuilt, and you did not. When IP are rebuilt, the DV's are seldom changed when the pump passes through all the tests that are run on it. If you can pull the injector line off of the injector, and remove the DV from the "noisy" cylinder and swap it with a different cylinder and the noise moves, it is the DV, if not well then it may be an injector/nozzle issue. This is the most comprehensive advice I can suggest.

Were the copper injector seats changed with new ones? Perhaps not (old ones used?) which seems to explain why you were seeing bubbling around the injectors.

Why was "never seize" used anywhere near the injectors? You don't want that stuff near or in the injectors, or use it as a sealer for the copper seats.

When I changed my nozzles the first time, I went with cheap .205's and did the swap myself. I was lucky that it worked out great with no pop testing. When I went to the 1019's I sent my injectors to DBW and had them calibrated as well. Took some time and they work great. Both times I changed the seats with new ones. I did see a little leak which showed up as soot around the injector. Gave that injector a love tap and that leak went away. There was a ticking sound that seemed to be associated with the leak.

It is very important that the seats and the injectors are mated as these can leak and your compression will be thrown for a loop. Using old seats will have imprints from the previous install. The ticking sounds could also be these seats leaking as a leak directly from the cylinder can cause noise.

Could it be as simple as putting a new set of seats and gently "tapping" the injectors into these seats for a proper fit?

The jumping IQ values are a concern as well. Did you try "hammering" the IP to see if you can smooth out the fluctuations in the IQ? There is a used IP for sale for $200 locally, I am not sure about the condition but it could be worth the small investment to see if your current IP is failing.

http://dubberz.com/forum/mk4-parts/alh-injection-pump-200-obo-leather-center-console-$40/

Sounds like we need a local GTG where we can all poke around each others cars and solve all the issues

Maybe we can encourage Owain and Mark to host it at their location? Maybe we can get the Dyno out and the BBQ too.

Paul @ autobahn dismantlers did the install, he's been dismantling VWs out of that shop for over 20 years and is a hardcore fanatic, dailies a tdi. Simon on the corner has a bosch pop tester that was used on these and said they popped off fine. Seems it's either the injectors, or you got really unlucky and the QA inside the pump failed at the same time. I've got untested 11mms kicking around but that doesn't really help and haven't got the time to work on our cars let alone customers.
Sounds like a time for dyno + BBQ, hope you have some umbrellas! Unfortunately Mark and I don't get much time to work on cars and are typically working weekends as it is just to keep up, so won't be doing much wrenching. We typically have to outsource mechanical work , hopefully some things we're working on will improve time efficiency.

Hi Owain, I know Paul and he is top notch, i bought a 2.0 for a swap from him a several years ago. Maybe the IP is failing or has some issues brought on by the larger demand of the .216 nozzles.

Perhaps a GTG will work out but it should work with schedules etc... Let us know some potential dates and I can bring the BBQ It would be great to see your dyno in action too.

You can't test 2-stage injectors on a pop tester. All you can do is see where the pilot spray starts, not the main injection. I would not consider that to be a reliable test in any way.

Drop the injectors with NW, they're like 20 mins from there... They can check and service your pump too if that becomes necessary.

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I just went through similar issues on my car. Try getting your hands on VCDS and adjust the IQ all the way up and all the way down to see if you can find a spot where it's happy. I wouldn't suggest the hammer mod. Mine was a total pain to set and I'm pretty sure it's because the pump is on it's last legs.
I was only resealing mine.

Just an update. I brought my car to NW Fuel Injection in Surrey. Landis is the shop manager there. He has a built VW ALH as well. He removed the injectors and tested them. Three of the four injectors were way off...spraying above and below spec. The injectors were rebuilt and calibrated. They were also cleaned of the anti seize and other dirt/carbon. The bores were cleaned as well. He said everything was quite dirty and it would be difficult for an injector to seat in that environment. He also replaced the return fuel lines. I thought the shop that originally installed my nozzles did this but they only replaced one small section between the 1st and 2nd injectors.

Anyways, the difference is night and day. The car runs great. Excellent, smooth power. I'm super impressed with the service from NW...top notch. I've learned cleanliness is of the upmost importance when dealing with your fuel injection.

I'll contact Owain and see if I can log the data we tried to gather when I first purchased the tune.

Up next VNT 17 and exhaust...thanks for all the input and listening to me complain.

A VNT-17 and .216 nozzles will make a metric ton of power. Okay maybe not a metric ton, but I am not allowed to write a$$ load of power anymore. Which takes me to the thought of the butt dyno; 24 PSI of boost with those nozzles will run so much better than one would think possible. When you get the chance, you may want to check the fuel sending unit to make sure the triangle shaped check valve isn't blocking fuel flow; it is a very common occurrence with our Mk4's.

Glad to hear she's running! Landis is a solid dude, dropped off an 11mm the other day in an abarth race car

Once she's all done up I'm down to do a couple dyno runs, see how it compares to PP520s with similar mods.

As I'd figured (way back in post #8)!

PB_NB said:

Why was "never seize" used anywhere near the injectors? You don't want that stuff near or in the injectors, or use it as a sealer for the copper seats.



Sounds like we need a local GTG where we can all poke around each others cars and solve all the issues

Maybe we can encourage Owain and Mark to host it at their location? Maybe we can get the Dyno out and the BBQ too.

Click to expand...

Agreed, mmmmm BBQ, too bad we'll have to wait until next year when it stops raining and the sun comes out.

I use never seize on the body's to stop them seizing to the head.

Wondering if someone could provide advice. After these modifications the car produces a large cloud of white smoke on cold startup. As well as the idle is irregular for a about 10-20 seconds. This happened occasionally before the mods, but now its consistently occurring. Other than the initial start up the car runs fine, the idle is stable once the car has warmed up. The first shop that installed my nozzles played with the IQ via Ross-tech, trying to get car to run properly. I believe it was set between 2-3.

My questions are:
Does the IQ "self adjust" to a certain extent?
Do these symptoms seem like an over fuelling issue?
Should I track down someone with Ross-tech and adjust the IQ again?

Thanks again.

I have a similar smokey start up. but my smoke is more hazy and bluish white. It lasts about a minute and clears up and then after that I get only black puffs at WOT or when pulling the trailer. I know that the black smoke is related to excessive fuelling however, the DLC1019 nozzles are more on the lean side when it comes to aftermarket nozzles.

My IQ is set at 4.0.

I have a new new Rosstech Cable (KII-USB) if you would like, I could let you have if for a great price (PM me if you are interested and you can swing over and grab it). I bought another new one that covers the 07 GTI and Beetle so this one is extra now.

The cable would be very handy if you feel comfortable getting in and understanding your car.

munly said:

Wondering if someone could provide advice. After these modifications the car produces a large cloud of white smoke on cold startup. As well as the idle is irregular for a about 10-20 seconds. This happened occasionally before the mods, but now its consistently occurring. Other than the initial start up the car runs fine, the idle is stable once the car has warmed up. The first shop that installed my nozzles played with the IQ via Ross-tech, trying to get car to run properly. I believe it was set between 2-3.

My questions are:
Does the IQ "self adjust" to a certain extent?
Do these symptoms seem like an over fuelling issue?
Should I track down someone with Ross-tech and adjust the IQ again?

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

The IQ is not self learning.

White smoke is unburned fuel, so its either injector issues or compression.

2-3 isn't bad at all, but every car is different so it might need some fine tuning.

turbovan+tdi said:

White smoke is unburned fuel, so its either injector issues or compression.

Click to expand...

Retarded injection timing?

From personal experience recently, retarded timing, low injector pressure (causing incomplete atomization of fuel), excess fuel (due to the IQ still being too low, or otherwise induced), all can contribute to smoke.

On my car, I found that someone had shimmed the injectors for 190 bar, instead of the 220 that the car had before. I also had a pump that was mechanically IQ adjusted at some point before I got it, so I had to adjust it to a usable point before the IQ would go beyond 2.0 when maxed out in the VCDS adjustment.

Once I "hammer modded" the pump (carefully, with a rubber mallet...) and set the IQ to ~4.5, the solid dark grey cloud of exhaust smoke when on the throttle beyond careful acceleration faded to a light haze when I bury my foot in it.
The injectors are still pending a shop doing a reshim for the pressure, while the stock ones are back in for the time being.

This may not fix your issue, but I would seriously look at the IQ. It's not too difficult to get it down (up?) to around 4, and I was surprised how much of a difference it made.

Are your GP's functioning properly? I have a 04 Beetle w/BEW and it starts w/o smoke spring, summer and fall. Let it get cold and I get the white smoke. I have 2 GP's that need to be replaced but haven't had a Saturday in the last 2 months to change them out.