IP Swap GTG, Omaha NE

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
I'll be replacing my IP this Saturday, as long as both the 11mm pump and ALH TB Tools both arrive in time. I'm told there is no "IP Swap How-To", so I'll be taking careful notes and posting everything online.

Here's the thread with my original troubles,

Quality Adjuster Problems
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=290391

I'll be working at my place right around 48th & Dodge in Omaha, contact me for specific directions if you'd like to stop by.
 
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All of Us

Ian's Dad
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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Brookfield, IL
TDI
2015 NMS Passat SE TDI "Gin" 2006 A5 New Jetta TDI "Graycie" and 2003 A4 Jetta GLS TDI "Liath"
Eric:

Hope all goes well for you on your IP swap.

Dan
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Location
San Jose, CA
TDI
None
I'm pretty sure Rocketeer928 (don't quote me on the last 3 numbers) made an extremely detailed writeup of the IP-Swap procedure. Take a gander around the forum for that. Its pretty straight forward, you just don't have to take the rest of the timing components off to do it.

EDIT: HERE it is!
 
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MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
Last night I just finally got the jack, stands, and all tools over to my house. I got the Dynaflow CCV off, and pulled the injectors lines, 3-4-1-2. So now is when all the real fun starts...
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
I did this last weekend while doing a TB job. To be honest most of the steps are to do with the TB job. The steps associated with the IP pump change are trivial. All it requires is remove/replace the pump 4 bolts, transfer the IP sprocket 3bolts, reconnect the fuel lines and connect the electrical connector. Here is the condensed version: :D

You need to lock down the engine in TDC (Need some TB tools), relieve TB tensioner, remove cam sprocket to release belt. Then change out IP sprocket 3 bolts and remove IP only four bolts and reattach IP sprocket. Then mount belt (trick here is to use cam sprocket with belt on). Retension belt with ip pin in and loose ip sprocket and loose cam sprocket. Tigheten up sprockets. Then 2 revs to check tdc. Finally retime with Vagcom small adjustments of ip sprocket position.
 
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MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
About 6 hours later:

- new 11 mm is installed
- timing is checked and all lined up

I've got to put back all the small side parts and check everything electronically tomorrow. I got hung up on finding the TDC mark on the flywheel since I've never done a TB job before, and since it was a G60 replacement I wasn't really sure what I was looking for.

I had been told a professional can do the job in 2 hours, he said it would take me 4, and I had planned 8 for myself start to finish. I'm still mostly on track to finish tomorrow early AM.
 

rocketeer928

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Location
Enfield, Connecticut
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
I'm pretty sure Rocketeer928 (don't quote me on the last 3 numbers) made an extremely detailed writeup of the IP-Swap procedure.

EDIT: HERE it is!
Yup! You got the numbers right. Thanks for the reference.

About 6 hours later:

- new 11 mm is installed
- timing is checked and all lined up

I've got to put back all the small side parts and check everything electronically tomorrow. I got hung up on finding the TDC mark on the flywheel since I've never done a TB job before, and since it was a G60 replacement I wasn't really sure what I was looking for.

I had been told a professional can do the job in 2 hours, he said it would take me 4, and I had planned 8 for myself start to finish. I'm still mostly on track to finish tomorrow early AM.
Good work MrErlo. Personally, I've never been able to see the TDC mark on any of my flywheels through the hole on top of the transmission. The only time I see it is when I've twice had the transmission out to go to the G60/VR6 and then a Stage III+ clutch/flywheel. There are so many other TDC checks that I don't worry too much about it, especially after I perform a couple of turns by hand.
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
About 6 hours later:

- new 11 mm is installed
- timing is checked and all lined up

I've got to put back all the small side parts and check everything electronically tomorrow. I got hung up on finding the TDC mark on the flywheel since I've never done a TB job before, and since it was a G60 replacement I wasn't really sure what I was looking for.

I had been told a professional can do the job in 2 hours, he said it would take me 4, and I had planned 8 for myself start to finish. I'm still mostly on track to finish tomorrow early AM.
There is small notch in the harmonic balancer and the timing cover also showing alignment for TDC. On my one I also had the G60 flywheel and didn't bother to check it when I put my clutch in, I was worried there would be no TDC mark. It turned out the vendor had put a small paint mark. Both this mark and the harmonic balancer mark coincided very well, so it gave more confidence. Both marks were about 1 tooth retarded after 110K. Shows how important those marks are in terms of bringing them back in line.

Problem now is my Sachs VR6 clutch is slipping. :D I will have to go for stage 3 like rocketeer928. Let us know if the 11mm causes your clutch to slip. With RC5 more and more people are telling me it is not strong enough.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
Well I got it all back together, and now it won't turn over. Looks like I need a new battery, bummer.
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Did you crank too long? Crack the 2 center lines at the injector and crank a couple of times until you see some diesel. Then tighten back up and crank again.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
I cracked the lines and got diesel through. Unfortunately, had a loose nut on the bottom of #2 line at the IP. Got that tightened up also.

Primed the entire fuel system with the "Car Bong", a modified Diesel Purge filter bypass. Now I'm just trying to get the battery to turn it over while jumping from my roommate's car...
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
Congrats! The timing adjustments are tiny. One thing I noticed is the amount of force needed to move the ip center nut varies depending on where you are on the pump compression cycle. Because of this, very slowly gradually increase the force on the nut until you detect the slightest of movements.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
Took one adjustment, but I got it nailed.

Reset IQ value using 12233. Value set to 32680 giving me 2.6.

Woo hoo!
 

MrErlo

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Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
You the man! You could possibly go a bit higher closer to the top line - said to be more optimal for power and mpg.
How is it that more advanced timing give better power AND mpg? That seems counter intuitive...

Also, what do the numbers along the bottom represent? Yours is at 120 and mine is all the way over at 160...?

I might try to adjust it later, but for now I'm just really glad to have it back running again. I'm not overly concerned about more power since when the turbo was bad I upgraded to VNT17, and now I've got 11mm. I'm waiting to get my new nozzles and a chip tune, so I think that'll be far, far more power than I'll ever need.
 
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MrErlo

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Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
mpg improvement of about 5% is reported and the engine revving a bit freer for better response.
5% would be nice, but I think I'll just enjoy having it up and running for now. I'd guess that the error in my MPG measurements would be something like 10%, so a physical adjustment at this point seems unnecessary.

I'll probably need to readjust when I get those nozzles and chip, that seems like the right thing to do.
 

vwjettadsl

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Feb 24, 2005
Location
Missouri
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TDI’s
You the man! You could possibly go a bit higher closer to the top line - said to be more optimal for power and mpg.

I find that better mileage is typically found by setting the timing between 45-55, I use to set everything advanced but anymore I set the timing in the middle of the graph. It does vary sometimes, depends on the car.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
I would set the IQ closer to 4 if it were me. At 2.6 you could get the "slow down shudder".
Thanks for all your phone advice during the work, couldn't have done it without you. I'll probably adjust the IQ again, I want to drive a little and make sure everything it totally set before I make my final changes.

Also, this will all need to be re-visited as we sort out the nozzles and chip tuning that you were negotiating with Scott. That's going to be a fun day, when I get those two sorted out.
 

MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
I find that better mileage is typically found by setting the timing between 45-55, I use to set everything advanced but anymore I set the timing in the middle of the graph. It does vary sometimes, depends on the car.
Ben, can you tell me what the other axis represents in this graph? I'm set between 45-55, but I don't know how that relates to the other value.
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
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Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
Ben, can you tell me what the other axis represents in this graph? I'm set between 45-55, but I don't know how that relates to the other value.
Fuel temp along the bottom. Fuel temp affects injection timing due to flow rate changes with temp.

Injection timing along the side.

Oh wait I'm not Ben!!
 
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MrErlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Omaha, NE
TDI
2003 Golf 4dr 5sp
Fuel temp along the bottom. Fuel temp affects injection timing due to flow rate changes with temp.

Injection timing along the side.

Oh wait I'm not Ben!!
Thanks very much Richard.

BTW, next time we do a G60/VR6 (I'm just assuming it will happen again eventually) we should make sure to make that TDC mark a lot more visible. Mine was nearly impossible to see this time. If you etched something into the FW would that throw off the weight enough to screw anything up?
 
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