2015 Passat Malone Stage 2 now with DSG shudder

740GLE

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This is a '15 Passat with phase 1 fix.

Before I bought the tune, I was aware there is a possibility of the DSG shudder under heavy acceleration in higher gears now that I've have it, looking to cure it. So while I've felt it 4 or 5 times since installing, mainly it's been pulling away from toll booths or merging on ramps, while not full throttle, but rpms up around 2-2,5K and defiantly feeding her. After a couple seconds of shudder, you can feel power dial back and everything is back to normal.

While I know this shudder isn't good for the DMF, the DSG is doing what it's supposed to do and dialing back the power, are there any long term side affects if this is once and a while occurrence or is it something to be avoided at all costs.

Today will be the first day the wife drives it, I'll be interested if she notices the shudder, she was in the car this past weekend with the new tune, but never said anything when it shuddered.

We put on 600 miles since the tune mostly highway/country roads and I'll agree with the another members review that it's as if the ECU was given a large coffee or 6 pack of jolt. The car just seems to want to cruise and pull way more willingly. Even with the crazy tall gearing of the '15 DSG at 60mph at 1,6-1,7RPM squeeze the peddle, gives pretty instant pull up to 70-75, where before it just felt lethargic, maybe a down shift. Initial tip in and pull from slow speeds and stops reminds me more of my '10 jetta manual when I stood on it. While I haven't floored it, very happy with the results and hope the wife.

So can you mix and match DSG tunes with stage tunes? While I have close access to a Malone dealer, just curious if you're locked into Malone or if any other DSG tuner will be able to offer something.

So who offers a DSG tune for the '15 Passats?
 

Kevinski4

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The DSG isn't 'dialing back power' you are just passing through peak torque. Have your dealer email Malone and tell him you have some shudder. Malone will pull a little fuel out of the ECU tune in that RPM range and you can motor on without worry.
 

740GLE

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It is dialing back power, it is noticeable reduction in power and shudder goes away with constant peddle position.

I've just noticed it 4-5 times now with 600 miles since flashing. Will the DSG eventually learn what the ECU can put out and preemptive dial back under certain parameters or will the ECU force the DSG to restrict power after it notices a shudder?

I'm all for keeping the power and fixing with a DSG tune depending on availability of solutions.
 

jerrymander

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It is dialing back power, it is noticeable reduction in power and shudder goes away with constant peddle position.
Which could just mean it passed through a torque peak. We can't know. Contact your tuner. No dunderheads on the forum can even begin to fix this issue.

Didn't Malone have a DSG tune for the Passat? I don't recall.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Alientech still hasn't released software for most 2015+ DSGs. I think unitronic APR and maybe eurodyne are the only ones on the market with DSG tunes right now. You can use whoever you'd like for DSG software but I don't think there's a good solution in NA right now. Regularly getting asked by customers from other tuners, mostly gas, for DSG files. This shudder seems to happen on a small percentage of passats, both auto and manual, and doesn't seem to happen on the golf/jettas. Mark already reduced torque output in the first place a tad to try to keep it from happening.

Please shoot me an email at info@malonetuning.com and we'll resolve this. Should reduce torque by about 10% or flash the dsg. Can also reduce torque by gear if you'd like to dial it in better, but best to be on the safe side.
 
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740GLE

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Which could just mean it passed through a torque peak. We can't know. Contact your tuner. No dunderheads on the forum can even begin to fix this issue.

Didn't Malone have a DSG tune for the Passat? I don't recall.

Agree that without logs I'm just going by butt dyno, it just seemed to be pulling quite strong and once shudder was felt it, was pretty noticeable dial back of "pulling".

I may try a reduced tune that Owain mentioned, I am conversing with him over PM. I'd just hate to lose the feel at the lower speeds, as I'm very happy with how it's woken the car up over stock.
 
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Enabled

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Too bad no one experimented with flashing the DSG using Euro factory files for the 187hp Passat, or even the biturbo 237hp Passat. Wouldn't have to wait on Alientech to release protocols.
 

KERMA

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2015 passat is no problem for dsg tune. Been doing them for quite a while. Post fix they adjusted the sport mode shift maps in the DSG to not hang as long in each gear before shifting but otherwise pretty much identical.

You could also ask your tuner to adjust the engine tune to retain the acceleration and lose the shudder. It is generally more of a can-bus calibration issue than anything, which can be adjusted out in the ecu tune.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Good to know, have had some success and some failure on 2015 DSGs and alientech has been stalling for months on a software update. Have other tools that'll tune them, but they're mostly for R&D and distributors don't have them. Guess that simplifies things if I can just send him a kess so consider it resolved.
 

740GLE

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DSG tunes on the '15 are thru the TCU port correct?
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Correct, only OBD is the PDs and R32/TT with this tool. Pretty straight forward process, TCM read takes longer than dis&re assembly.
 

KERMA

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Only problem is the 2015 golfs. There's a lot of them!

Passats, jettas, A3 are good to go.

surprised you didn't know that.
 

Owain@malonetuning

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Vast majority are golfs and fewer DSGs getting tuned than manuals. I mostly do R&D and we don't flash customer cars in house typically so it's been a few months since I've touched a DSG. At least Mark knows and that's what matters, I don't make the tunes just help with development. Tuesday morning blunder on my part.
 

travis45

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Drive in sport mode. It helps by keeping the rpms in a higher range. I also installed a fluid damper crank pulley which helped slightly.
 

740GLE

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Yeah the wife has never used either manual mode or sport mode. I've also been guilty of just mashing the peddle a little more in D just wanting the pull at taller gear rather than dip over to S or down shifting. Something about winding the engine above 3K doesn't seem right to me even thou I know that's where the real power is.

I was expecting the shudder, now I'm weighing the options if its worth going with a DSG tune, a reduced stage 2 tune or leaving as is and just be aware of it.

Again, you can't beat the simplicity of flashing in the garage in 20 minutes, I was able to change the cat litter boxs and bring back the trash cans from the curb all while getting more power.
 

raffshore

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are you sure it's dsg shudder? It could be the dual mass having trouble with the torque at low rpm
 

740GLE

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I guess it's hard to tell the difference, from the butt dyno, is there a log I can take to tell the difference?

I thought it was the DSG and possible clutch slippage which reverberates in the DMF. If it is the DMF I'll probably be looking at a detune as changing the DMF isn't on the table for a daily driver.
 

travis45

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My money is on DMF. Just drive around it and don't floor it at 1,000 RPM.
 

740GLE

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I'm thinking the RMPS were up a bit 1,8-2k and it wasn't floored, def didn't hit the kick down switch, just squeezing more umph out of her.

The wife has been driving this week and haven't noticed anything.
 

roadlust

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DMF shudder happens under 22-23k. Put in manual mode floor it above 23k and see if it happens.
 

740GLE

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I had some more seat time with the car, it seems to happen right between 1.7-1.8K, I was able to feel it when romping on it from a rolling stop, I think it was in 3rd but the RPMS were moving quickly up to 3k to shift.

The more pronounced feeling is in higher gears in 5th or 6th and pulling, it sits in that RPM band longer, I think enough for the ECU to pull fuel.

Looks like its happening under peak torque, which is what 2.2-2.3K, 1.8K is probably right where the tune has the torque deviating a ton from stock and the DSG can't keep up with stock programing.

The more and more I'm thinking about it, I may go for a stage 1.5 tune to see if we can still keep the low speed pick up and have 75% of the highway pull of the stage 2. If the stock shifting of the DSG was lethargic or bugging me I may look at a DSG tune, but the '15 stock DSG shifts pretty darn fast.

I did do a couple pulls shifting up to 3,500 when the wife wasn't in the car, thing is a "rocket" compared to stock.
 

Kevinski4

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I had some more seat time with the car, it seems to happen right between 1.7-1.8K, I was able to feel it when romping on it from a rolling stop, I think it was in 3rd but the RPMS were moving quickly up to 3k to shift.

The more pronounced feeling is in higher gears in 5th or 6th and pulling, it sits in that RPM band longer, I think enough for the ECU to pull fuel.

Looks like its happening under peak torque, which is what 2.2-2.3K, 1.8K is probably right where the tune has the torque deviating a ton from stock and the DSG can't keep up with stock programing.

The more and more I'm thinking about it, I may go for a stage 1.5 tune to see if we can still keep the low speed pick up and have 75% of the highway pull of the stage 2. If the stock shifting of the DSG was lethargic or bugging me I may look at a DSG tune, but the '15 stock DSG shifts pretty darn fast.

I did do a couple pulls shifting up to 3,500 when the wife wasn't in the car, thing is a "rocket" compared to stock.
Peak torque with your tune is right where you are feeling the DMF shuddering, ~1800rpm. It's the flywheel, not the transmission. Have you talked to your Malone dealer yet about trimming torque right in that area? You don't need to go to a 1.5 (one doesn't exist for your car anyway) and the slight drop in peak torque isn't enough to notice by the seat of your pants.

It's an easy and free fix. A few minutes at your Malone dealer and you'll be back on the road, DMF shudder free, with no perceivable loss of power.
 

740GLE

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Peak torque with your tune is right where you are feeling the DMF shuddering, ~1800rpm. It's the flywheel, not the transmission. Have you talked to your Malone dealer yet about trimming torque right in that area? You don't need to go to a 1.5 (one doesn't exist for your car anyway) and the slight drop in peak torque isn't enough to notice by the seat of your pants.
It's an easy and free fix. A few minutes at your Malone dealer and you'll be back on the road, DMF shudder free, with no perceivable loss of power.
Seeing I bought online with flashzilla, it's on the list of things to do, just need to send the email.

BTW on Malones site it appears peak torque its more of ~2.1-2.2K, but it does make sense.
 

raffshore

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Peak torque with your tune is right where you are feeling the DMF shuddering, ~1800rpm. It's the flywheel, not the transmission. Have you talked to your Malone dealer yet about trimming torque right in that area? You don't need to go to a 1.5 (one doesn't exist for your car anyway) and the slight drop in peak torque isn't enough to notice by the seat of your pants.
It's an easy and free fix. A few minutes at your Malone dealer and you'll be back on the road, DMF shudder free, with no perceivable loss of power.
I agree
 

740GLE

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Ahh I was looking at the pretty looking smoothed out graph.
 

adjat84th

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A fluidampr made DMF shudder disappear in my '15 golf with stage 2 eco tune. It's not cheap, but it does work!
Currently running a SMF, so problem solved permanently :)
The lower timing belt cover will need some trimming/sanding, or the pulley will rub on it when installed.
 
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740GLE

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Where did you source the fluidampr from?

At this point a "de-tune" is going to be my easiest option.

As for SMF, I'm assuming you have 6MT, not DSG. I'd have to say the DMFs and their inherent shudders may be different due to different parts.
 

adjat84th

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INA in the vendor section has a thread there. I believe I posted my review in there as well.
Yes, 6MT so likely different DMF but certainly same design. I believe German Diesel Motorwerks has done an SMF upgrade in a DSG. Not sure what the progress on that was though.

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