Time for a T-belt change at 69k?

tekone

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Location
Macomb, Michigan (SE)
TDI
Jetta, '02, Galactic Blue
I have an '02 Jetta auto with 69k that I have owned since 10/03 (had 38k at that time). My question is a 2 parter. 1. Am I due/overdue for a TB change? 2. Would there be any TDI gurus in SE Michigan that would be willing to assist me if necessary? I consider myself to be very competent and after reading a PDF here in the forum on the procedure I believe I could do it but am not sure if I want to invest in the tools. I bought a VAG Com a few years back and haven't touched it. I would be more than happy to allow another member to use it possibly teaching me how to use as well.
 

lrpavlo

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Jan 1, 2000
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Cocoa FL
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09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
Couple of things for ya!
1. stop by the big GTG in Fowlerville this Sat and you'll be able to see what's all involved.....Plus Host is a TDI GURU
2. Belts should be good on an 02 for 80K miles but you are getting close!
3. There are folks on the forums that rent the tools
4. I don't rent my tools but have been known to "help?"
 

tekone

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Feb 4, 2004
Location
Macomb, Michigan (SE)
TDI
Jetta, '02, Galactic Blue
Thanks for the quick response lrpavlo. I will be camping in Frankenmuth this weekend and will be towing the Jetta. I can try to convince the wife but not sure. When and where on Sat.?
 

rotarykid

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Apr 27, 2003
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Don't move it without changing T-belt first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tekone said:
I have an '02 Jetta auto with 69k that I have owned since 10/03 (had 38k at that time). My question is a 2 parter. 1. Am I due/overdue for a TB change? 2. Would there be any TDI gurus in SE Michigan that would be willing to assist me if necessary? I consider myself to be very competent and after reading a PDF here in the forum on the procedure I believe I could do it but am not sure if I want to invest in the tools. I bought a VAG Com a few years back and haven't touched it. I would be more than happy to allow another member to use it possibly teaching me how to use as well.
2002 TDI automatic came with a 4 - 5 year rated 40,000 mile max T-belt system .

Depending on when it was built you have exceded the maximum 4- 5 year time rating .

And also most importantly the T-belt on the automatic was due @ [{(40,000 miles]}) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have the 40k sticker under the hood .



If that thing is on the origional T-belt do not move it from where it is as it could break at any moment !!!!!!!!!!!
 
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rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

You can do this with just the stretch bolts , rollors , tensioner , & T-belt leaving off the WP for the next change safely .

But do it now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are lucky to have gotten away with it this long , count youself lucky and don't move it until it is replaced .
 

mrGutWrench

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'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
rotarykid said:
2002 TDI automatic came with a 4 - 5 year rated 40,000 mile max T-belt system. (snip)
__. RU sure, rkid? My '02 manual came with the "new" 80K belt; those are 80K no matter what the transmission is. I"ve seen it stated here that the change was made in '01 so all the '02's have the later belt -- it's the '01's that you have to check out (but I'm not sure if that's correct but it was for my car).
 

Powder Hound

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Hmmm, let's see - for the first few years, it was 40&60k miles for the t-belt. And in 2003 it was 100k, and the year before that, the belt was 80k. I'm betting that year was 2002. What do you think?
 

ymz

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Between Toronto & Montreal
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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
rotarykid said:
2002 TDI automatic came with a 4 - 5 year rated 40,000 mile max T-belt system .
Not according to any documentation that I've ever seen or heard about !!!!!!!

It's rated at 80,000 miles - automatic or standard !!! It's the earlier ones that needed the 40/60,000 (auto/manual) belt replacements...

Can you tell us where you saw this information for the 2002's ????

Yuri.

PS: the change over to the long-life belts took place at engine serial number ALH500001
 
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rotarykid

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mrGutWrench said:
__. RU sure, rkid? My '02 manual came with the "new" 80K belt; those are 80K no matter what the transmission is. I"ve seen it stated here that the change was made in '01 so all the '02's have the later belt -- it's the '01's that you have to check out (but I'm not sure if that's correct but it was for my car).
In 2002 Some cars had the combined 80k rated system then the manual trans should be able to go a little farthur as they must have been averaged together to remove the automatic manual confusion .

It still Matters not which T-belt system a slush box automatic TDI has its' mile rating is 1/3 -1/4 less than the same engine in the same car with a manusl trans . This didn't change when VW updated/improved the tensioner .

Look at the sticker under the hood to see which one you have on an automatic as both were sold in 2002 model year .

But they were all 4 - 5 year maximum time rated irregardless of miles on the clock .
 
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TornadoRed

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I cannot believe all the bogus information in this thread, from an otherwise reliable club member.

ALL 2002 TDIs came with a timing belt rated for 80k miles, regardless of transmission type.

These are the same belts rated for 100k miles in 2003, the difference being the large roller-idler with more robust bearings. (Not that they don't fail prematurely anyway)

Also, these belts do not suddenly decompose after five years. Maybe after seven or ten. They generally do not fail unless some other part in the timing belt path fails, like a tensioner or roller or waterpump.

Tekone should try to make it to the GTG, if at all possible, just to have an expert or two take a look at his TB and answer any other questions he might have.
 

lrpavlo

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Jan 1, 2000
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Cocoa FL
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09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
Check in the Meetings/GTG section under the Midwest .....you see the annual Memorial Day GTG thread. I think maps and directions are in there....if not just go to martinbergelllc.com
Its from 9am to 10 pm on the 26th
9696 N Nichols rd. Fowlerville MI 48836
 

mrGutWrench

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rotarykid said:
(snip) But they were all 4 - 5 year maximum time rated irregardless of miles on the clock .
__. That's good advice. I wonder why VW publishes this and makes it clear in the UK (and I would guess Europe) but only publishes the mileage in the US. It would be interesting to see the testing details to compare the fabric base and rubber/plastic coating on the 60/40 belt versus the 80/100K belt but I'm sure that VW isn't going to release that. One might guess that the newer belt would resist deterioration from age longer but then again, it wouldn't be the first case of "more resistance to stress in the short term -- less resistance to age-related deterioration out there". I think that VW should be much more upfront about the issue of age-related deterioration. Since I do 40K a year, it doesn't matter much to me but it would be a good policy for people with less mileage per year.
 

rotarykid

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There were early 2002s my that had the 40k T-belt sticker under the hood . VW engineers may have found in US driving the 40k rating didn't mean as much here . Because of the high miles we rack up in a much shorter time period here in the distances we travel . If that is so then you could go farther safely if you rack up the miles quickly .


In 2003 my all had the updated T-belt system rating .


And if VW is now claiming the automatic can go the same distance did they just average them both together to remove confusion and took into account how we drive .

So if it's safe to 80k on a 2002 automatic that didn't come with the 40k sticker then 100+k should be safe on a manual trans car of that year if it is done within , shorter than the max time rating .

I talked to one of the VW engineer in 2000 about the difference in the automatic & manual trans T-belt rating . He said that it was directly related to the slippage of the automatic trans which equaled more turns per miles traveled and the extra stress of the larger diameter shaft injection pump . This is why the system life was lowered in an automatic car , an automatic slush box configuration puts more stress on the T-belt system .

Since nothing has changed in the T-belt system this would still apply , 1/3-1/5 less of the rated manual trans T-belt system depending how the car is driven & the climate that it is driven in .

I don't want to have to replace the head so I'd go conservative difference and change it at the 1/3rd less mark , 70 - 75k miles . But at this point this matters not as a 2002 is well into its' 4th year if not into its' 5th so it is at the end of its' usable life .
 
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rotarykid

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If you put 40k a year on a manual trans car I would guess you could if you chose safely go to the 120k mark on one of these updated T-belts , better tensioner .

40k a year on an automatic trans car would spend much of its' time with torque converter locked so the mileage rating could increase from the reduced rpms lost from reduced slipage . But there is still extra stress from driving the larger diameter injection pump that must be considered .

But if put a T-belt under this kind of stress I would stay with the 4 year change interval with no reguard to miles .

If I seem conservative on this it is because I've seen engines destroyed by waiting for no real good reason . $150 - $300 vrs possibly $4,000 not a hard one to figure out to me at least .

You rack up miles like this all the parts including the WP should be replaced in a change .
 

mparker326

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Knoxville, TN
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Golf 2002 Gray
rotarykid said:
But at this point this matters not as a 2002 is well into its' 4th year if not into its' 5th so it is at the end of its' usable life .
mrGutWrench said:
I wonder why VW publishes this and makes it clear in the UK
How about some proof where VW says this?

Here is what DB thinks on the time vs. mileage debate:

Drivbiwire said:
So show me where there is rubber aka Latex in a TDI timing belt...

Your full of $hit that there is ANY TIME LIMIT ON ANY TDI TIMING BELT.

100,000 miles REGARDLESS of time for the 2003+ timing belt systems OR those ALH's which have been updated to the 2003 standards.

There is a shelf life imposed on belts prior to use, If I recall correctly it's 7 years BEFORE the belt is put into service.

Again timing belts are changed REGARDLESS of time in use and mileage is the ONLY factor in a change interval.

DB
 

rotarykid

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mparker326 said:
How about some proof where VW says this?

Here is what DB thinks on the time vs. mileage debate:


Heat cyles over the age rating time frame are the main issue related to .


Colder climates are harder on the T-belt , wider range of temp changes for each cycle . A belt can safely sit on a shelf somewhere for a long time years even @ room temp with no extreme changes in temp before use .

Are you going to argue that tires don't degrade over an extended time ?? The same materials that go into a tire go into a T-belt . Tire ages all you get normally is a flat if your lucky , T-belt ages you get a bill $$$$$$;) .


It's your head , have at it if you wish . But not me .
 

meganuke

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rotarykid said:
If you put 40k a year on a manual trans car I would guess you could if you chose safely go to the 120k mark on one of these updated T-belts , better tensioner.
Tell that to the people that need new heads at 105K miles. ;) To my knowledge, the tensioner hasn't changed, it's the belt and the large roller. Some 2003's, despite the manual claiming 100K intervals, actually had the smaller 80K bearing in the large roller. The rollers are the common failure point, not the actual belt or tensioner (assuming it was properly torqued).
 

ymz

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Keith, the tensioner changed for the 2002 model year ("N" suffix)... you can't get the older tensioners any more, even if some dealers are still selling the older "D" suffix belts...

As for the idlers... on both my first and 2nd timing belts, it was the small lower idler that had far too much play in the bearings... first one changed at 95,000 miles, the 2nd at 101,000 miles... 95% highway driving... I'll change this one at around 90,000 miles...

Yuri.
 

rotarykid

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meganuke said:
Tell that to the people that need new heads at 105K miles. ;) To my knowledge, the tensioner hasn't changed, it's the belt and the large roller. Some 2003's, despite the manual claiming 100K intervals, actually had the smaller 80K bearing in the large roller. The rollers are the common failure point, not the actual belt or tensioner (assuming it was properly torqued).
Again I would not ever exceed the mileage rating , as I wrote if you chose . And I would never suggest going beyond the rated max mile rating .

But if you put 100k on an engine in less than 3 years there are going to be parts in the system that might not be as worn out as they would be under 15k a year operation .

To me it's a non-issue issue as I normally change mine far short of the maximum rated distance due age catching up with me .
 

Powder Hound

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The most recent tensioner has a stronger spring in it. The longer mileage belts are thicker and stronger (more reinforcement fibers) and therefore stiffer. Stiffer requires more spring in the tensioner to maintain its ability to keep a slack loop from allowing skipped teeth.
 

mparker326

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Location
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rotarykid said:
Heat cyles over the age rating time frame are the main issue related to .


Colder climates are harder on the T-belt , wider range of temp changes for each cycle . A belt can safely sit on a shelf somewhere for a long time years even @ room temp with no extreme changes in temp before use .

Are you going to argue that tires don't degrade over an extended time ?? The same materials that go into a tire go into a T-belt . Tire ages all you get normally is a flat if your lucky , T-belt ages you get a bill $$$$$$;) .


It's your head , have at it if you wish . But not me .
I'm asking for VW or Bently documentation that belts should be changed on time basis vs. mileage basis. Does this exist?

VW is very specific on brake fluid changes every two years regardless of miles. Why wouldn't they be specific on a timing belt?
 

mparker326

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paramedick said:
It's not VW, it's the belt manufacturer. Timing belts come with a "use by" date on the box.
According to DB, "use by" means you must put it in a car before that date.

Drivbiwire said:
There is a shelf life imposed on belts prior to use, If I recall correctly it's 7 years BEFORE the belt is put into service.
How as a consumer would I know that the timing belt on my new car wasn't bought in a 500,000 lot 3 years ago and sat around in some factory parts bin and my car happened to get belt number 499,999? So by that account I would have to change my belt in 2 years?
 

chewbacca

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Holy crap guys! Chewbacca is both scared and confused. I own 2, year 2002 TDI's both with original TB's, both automatics, and approx 62-64000 miles on each. Bought the cars new in 2003. I was planning on going to visit Deaf Bug this summer with two trunks full of TB kits and thought I was going to be changing them out early. Like I was being uber-cautious.

So which is it? My Bentley says 80,000 miles regardless of tranny. And, here is a quote from the sticky for Newbies,

"The new timing belt for ALH engines began to be used late in the 2001 model year (ALH engine number 500,000 and higher); the longer change intervals began to be put in the maintenance checklists in 2002. The larger roller began to be used in 2003."

What is this sticker under the hood and what should it say if I have either the good or bad TB? Do I need to park our cars until the belts get changed?
 

TornadoRed

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chewbacca said:
So which is it? My Bentley says 80,000 miles regardless of tranny. And, here is a quote from the sticky for Newbies,

"The new timing belt for ALH engines began to be used late in the 2001 model year (ALH engine number 500,000 and higher); the longer change intervals began to be put in the maintenance checklists in 2002. The larger roller began to be used in 2003."

What is this sticker under the hood and what should it say if I have either the good or bad TB? Do I need to park our cars until the belts get changed?
You have the correct information. The change-over to the extended-life TB occurred somewhere around April 2001, during the 2001 model year. Anyone who says they were still putting the short-life TB in 2002 model TDIs is mistaken.

If you want to know with absolute certainty what belt you have, visit Runonbeer's website, look at the photos of both kinds, and compare to your car(s). www.runonbeer.com

The reason for a shorter replacement interval for the older belt when installed in an AT model was because of the 11mm injection pump that put more stress directly on the belt. It had nothing to do with slippage in the transmission increasing the number of engine revolutions.
 

chewbacca

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Thanks for the link for the pics TR. By the way, my ALH code on the TB cover is 499 266, the date is 7/17/01 and the belt by visual inspection is definitely the 80,000 mile belt (has the criss crosses) and appears to be in good condition. So, what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt? Mine looks nothing like the older style shown in run on beer's photo.
 

TornadoRed

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chewbacca said:
Thanks for the link for the pics TR. By the way, my ALH code on the TB cover is 499 266, the date is 7/17/01 and the belt by visual inspection is definitely the 80,000 mile belt (has the criss crosses) and appears to be in good condition. So, what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt? Mine looks nothing like the older style shown in run on beer's photo.
I think the rule was that those over 500000 had the new belt, and not that those under 499999 had the old belt. Your post confirms, at any rate, that the switch was slightly before engine number 500000.

What is your vehicle's build date? (on the driver's side B-pillar)
 

chewbacca

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Build date 9/01 on the Jetta. I'll check the Golf if it makes it back this weekend.
 

ymz

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chewbacca said:
what's up with the posts citing engine codes lower than 500 001 having the old belt?.
Just go and get your timing belt changed by your friendly local VW dealer and you'll find that they will probably install the OLD style belt, because that's what's in the book...

Yuri.
 
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