Opt-Out Intensive Settlement Process

DrgRnnr

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Not all of the Opt-outs.
This is a subset of the larger group. Many have decided to pursue alternate legal means to sue VW. Most are being filed in VA where the VW NA HQ is located. Cases have been scheduled regularly for the last 60 days in local courts. Each one has been settled before the court date.
Source: I am an opt-out with an attorney in VA.

Bonus: Mike Melkersen (Attorney in Hard NOx documentary) is an attorney in VA representing many clients in this manner. He was also the first known attorney that settled a case out of court with VW over Dieselgate back in June 2016.
 

TDIforDays

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USA
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few of each 2.0 and 3.0
Not all of the Opt-outs.
This is a subset of the larger group. Many have decided to pursue alternate legal means to sue VW. Most are being filed in VA where the VW NA HQ is located. Cases have been scheduled regularly for the last 60 days in local courts. Each one has been settled before the court date.
Source: I am an opt-out with an attorney in VA.

Bonus: Mike Melkersen (Attorney in Hard NOx documentary) is an attorney in VA representing many clients in this manner. He was also the first known attorney that settled a case out of court with VW over Dieselgate back in June 2016.
Are you guys getting more than BB?
 

DrgRnnr

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Opt-outs are being held to NDA's in regards to their cases. That would include any compensation received. Given that you haven't heard otherwise you would need to make your own assumption. The cases are public and the amount being pursued in each case is in the neighborhood of $300k.
Knowing what you know about the case; fraud, deception and cruel animal testing. Would you want to defend VW in a civil case? That is my assumption to the fact none of the cases have made it to trial and all have been settled so far.
BTW the attorneys fees are being paid out of monies in addition to BB, so worst case for clients was to receive only the BB value. Very little risk for the opt-out client.
 

steelersvt

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I actually looked up that attorney- his little website has been down for a while now. Looks like a slashdot effect. So its possible some of these cases have individual owners that are testing higher awards, and the last post suggests significantly higher awards... why aren't more people running to do that?
 

gmcjetpilot

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I actually looked up that attorney- his little website has been down for a while now. Looks like a slashdot effect. So its possible some of these cases have individual owners that are testing higher awards, and the last post suggests significantly higher awards... why aren't more people running to do that?
Why because most people are no slimy greedy people with no character. The settlement, is MORE then generous and makes you whole. You have to PROVE loss and that will be hard. Some people (early in the scandal, rumors) were claiming medical issues and mental distress. Before the court settlement there were individual claims and whole states (State Attorney) suing VW for a piece of the pie.

I think VW effectively shut most of that down. I sued VW and they played hardball. In the end they settled and after my legal expense I came out whole, at the expense of +100 hours of effort on my part.
 

MichaelB

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BTW the attorneys fees are being paid out of monies in addition to BB, so worst case for clients was to receive only the BB value. Very little risk for the opt-out client.
Typical ambulance chaser attorney mentality. They make themselves rich.... ie attorney fees (money in their pocket) which they keep and you don't get a whiff of. So they cover their butts with ....you will get at the minimum the buyback money. And that is what you get and they keep all the rest. I just love our litigious society is always trying to profit with the use of an attorney that promises the world.
 

BarryT82

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‘12 JSW TDI
The settlement on the 3.0 TDI’s is crap. I would have opted for the buyback because the value of my vehicles has plummeted. Even with the fix money I’m still out a lot of money.
 

Rico567

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This is discouraging. Nobody can convince me they've suffered $300K in damages over this, and that's including half of it for attorney's fees.
 

phh-dfw

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I am an opt-out represented by Heygood, Orr, & Pearson. The main thing Judge Breyer did, in my opinion, is illustrate why the 9th Circuit is the most overturned Circuit in the entire Federal Judiciary.

His display of bias lays the groundwork for appealing any ruling he makes from this point forward for two immediately apparent reasons.

The first is that he COMPLETELY IGNORED the basis of the opt out cases at issue in the 03/21/18 proceedings. The only thing he addressed was pollution. The vast majority of the opt out cases have a more fundamental basis in consumer fraud. One might easily assume from his comments in the transcript that he was of the mindset that the only reason people opted out was to be personally compensated for pollution.

The second is that he failed to give any admonishment to the defendants' legal representatives. Perhaps something along the lines of "Your client agreed to settle each case for the opt in amounts, but because of the dire consequences of these 600 cars running around polluting, to complete your responsibilities, you need to take a hard look at 0.6% of your settlements may cost more, so pony up for the sake of the environment and be glad it is only 0.6% instead of 6% or 60%. That, along with his diatribe brow beating of plaintiffs' legal representatives would have been even handed.

From this point forward, every ruling he makes is subject to appeal due to previously demonstrated bias. I am not an attorney, but ANYONE who went to school on the big bus can easily make such a case without even having to buy or borrow a copy of "Illustrating Bias On The Part Of A Judge For Dummies".

There were three parties wronged... the government through regulatory fraud, society as a whole through pollution, and those that purchased vehicles through consumer fraud. From the beginning, the problem with the class action settlements is the abject and total failure to realize that what is a remedy for one of those three parties is not a remedy for the other two.

Government was made whole through fines. Supposedly society as a whole is going to be made whole by building hydrogen fill stations in California and the defendant's lurching knee jerk move toward electric cars. NEITHER of those addresses consumer fraud. Had he been more demanding instead of having his buddy Robert Mueller (yeah, THAT Robert Mueller) be the "Settlement Master" that acted as the midwife of the mutant mongrel bastardization of justice that is otherwise known as the class action settlement, there would not have had to been opt out cases.
 
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TDIforDays

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phh-dfw, seriously, how much are you trying to get out of VW? OK VW defrauded you and false advertised a car. How much are they supposed to pay for this to you? $100K? $500K?

What do you think will be fair.
 

Mythdoc

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^^phh: If that is your closing argument, you lost your case. You cite bias and then give a very biased rant yourself. Hopefully your attorney knows better than you how to persuade folks who don’t already share his point of view.
 

Rico567

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I have tried to put myself in the position of someone who is due more than I'll be getting in the buyback, and I just can't get there. The nebulous idea that there's some massive amount of money that was left out due to (presumably) punitive damages from consumer fraud isn't merely problematic, it's ludicrous. I was not personally damaged by VW selling me this car, therefore the question of punitive damages awarded to me isn't even up for consideration. We will be getting about $2200 less than we paid for this car after driving it for 5 years and 80K miles (great, carefree miles, I might add), and for me to insist that we were somehow due more money would be dishonest.*

*NB: I will be the first person to admit that there are individual cases involving people who are possibly due some extra compensation due to their specific circumstances. But certainly not us, and certainly not some huge windfall amount of money.
 

KITEWAGON

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Rico speaks for this sailor.



ez
+1 But some folks will always insist on being victims. I felt like the settlement process was good to us though.

IMO the only people who I might sympathize with are 3.0 owners who were not offered a buyback. I'm not sure if the compensation value for the fix really covered the loss in market value due to the scandal.
 

Mythdoc

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IMO the only people who I might sympathize with are 3.0 owners who were not offered a buyback. I'm not sure if the compensation value for the fix really covered the loss in market value due to the scandal.
So true. Lost market value and dealers not wanting the cars in trade.
 

TDITAZ1969

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Texas
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14' Jetta
Rico, I guess you are content in letting VW and the courts cheat you out of $2200. VW knowingly committed fraud the day we purchased these vehicles and to get anything less than purchase price for the vehicle is unacceptable. I am not asking for a windfall, I am asking to have the purchase price refunded to me. And yes I have driven this car many miles, but they have all been miles driven under a fraudulent sale. I would have been out of this car 3 years ago for reasons other than the fraud but I could not unload this thing without taking a further loss. It is not unreasonable to demand your money back. If one purchased any other product under fraudulent conditions, they would be standing on their head demanding a full refund. This is no different. All I am asking for is what the law in my state allows and I refuse to give in and allow VW to get out cheap after committing fraud.
 

Lightflyer1

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Round Rock, Texas
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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Go talk to Texas they took your money in the settlement. ;)

From a quick search you seem to be wrong:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.32.htm

2005 Texas Penal Code CHAPTER 32. FRAUD

PENAL CODE

TITLE 7. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY

CHAPTER 32. FRAUD

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

Sec. 32.02. VALUE. (a) Subject to the additional criteria of Subsections (b) and (c), value under this chapter is:
(1) the fair market value of the property or service at the time and place of the offense; or
(2) if the fair market value of the property cannot be ascertained, the cost of replacing the property within a reasonable time after the offense.
(b) The value of documents, other than those having a readily ascertainable market value, is:
(1) the amount due and collectible at maturity less any part that has been satisfied, if the document constitutes evidence of a debt; or
(2) the greatest amount of economic loss that the owner might reasonably suffer by virtue of loss of the document, if the document is other than evidence of a debt.
(c) If property or service has value that cannot be reasonably ascertained by the criteria set forth in Subsections (a) and (b), the property or service is deemed to have a value of $750 or more but less than $2,500.
(d) If the actor proves by a preponderance of the evidence that he gave consideration for or had a legal interest in the property or service stolen, the amount of the consideration or the value of the interest so proven shall be deducted from the value of the property or service ascertained under Subsection (a), (b), or (c) to determine value for purposes of this chapter.
 

TDITAZ1969

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Texas
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14' Jetta
How am I wrong? The fair market value of the property was the value placed on it by VW and the market on the DAY I purchased the car. The time and place of the offense again...was the DAY I purchased the car. As I stated before, I am not looking for a windfall, I just want the purchase price of the car returned to me.
 

GoFaster

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Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
The consensus of the original court decision that resulted in the settlement that 99.4% of participants have taken, is that you're wrong.

What makes you more entitled than the 99.4% of people who accepted the settlement? Answer: Nothing.
 

TDITAZ1969

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Location
Texas
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14' Jetta
99.4% of the people who accepted this took the easy way out and let VW off cheap for their fraud. A consensus doesn't mean jack, especially when it comes from a California court and a settlement put together by Bob Mueller. What makes me more entitled? Nothing! But I am not taking the easy money from a BS settlement that does not make me whole. I am not asking for a windfall, I am asking for the purchase price back and for what the law allows in my state. I guarantee that if any of you purchased any other product under fraudulent pretenses, you would be screaming for your money back.
 

lb71

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Toronto
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2013 Jetta TDI Highline Manual w/ Nav
Fraud implies you have suffered a financial loss. You are getting your money back less $2200 and have driven the car for a few years for many miles. That's $2200 well spent. You would have a hard time finding a dealer to sell you a brand new car under those conditions. You are ahead financially under this scenario.
 

Rico567

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Rico, I guess you are content in letting VW and the courts cheat you out of $2200.<snsip>
Please refrain from <typing> words in my mouth. No fraud was committed against me, you are welcome to your opinion. VW cheated on Federal emissions regulations, and the court has decided upon the remedy, which I find quite satisfactory. VW doesn't owe me $2200 more, they owe me what the schedule in the settlement agreement states that they owe me, and I'm good with that. I have never driven as inexpensively in my life as I have the past five years, and barring some sort of miracle, I never will. The Passat has been a great car, and we've gotten more than our money's worth out of it in five years.

If you feel cheated in some way, that's for you to deal with; I'm out.
 

Windex

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Cambridge
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05 B5V 01E FRF
You need to read up on tort law.

In order to be compensated, you need to personally demonstrate the damages you have incurred as a result of VWs actions.

If VW was refusing to offer any compensation, and your car was rendered worthless as a result of the emissions scandal, then you would have an easy task - VW's actions clearly reduced the value of the car you bought.

Given that VW has already demonstrated that they are willing to greatly inflate the buyback value of cars (to the tune of $36 per month cost in the example above), you would need to prove damages over and above that amount (assuming that particular amount applies to you).

Please quantify how VW has cost you monetary damages over and above the proposed settlement amount?
 

CHawk

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Apr 22, 2016
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The Great Pacific Northwest
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2011 Golf TDI 4D DSG (gone buyback)
You need to read up on tort law.

In order to be compensated, you need to personally demonstrate the damages you have incurred as a result of VWs actions.

...

Please quantify how VW has cost you monetary damages over and above the proposed settlement amount?
Monetary damages:

-Transaction costs: These were not adequately accounted for in the settlement. Note that there's no difference in buyback amount between high transaction-cost areas (high sales tax, high registration) and low transaction-cost areas. In my locality, that's 10.7% sales tax + title + registration (non-prorated, i.e., no refund for "unused" portion of registration). Transaction costs are incurred twice, original purchase of the vehicle and purchase of a replacement. Perhaps most importantly, I was deprived of the trade-in offset for sales tax reduction--no dealer would touch the TDI for a trade.

-Limbo period: 14 months between news of scandal and start of buyback deprived owners of reasonable sale or trade-in opportunities, especially important in cases where a different vehicle was needed (people's vehicle needs don't remain static). Some owners acquired different vehicles while continuing to pay loan interest and insurance/registration on their untradeable TDIs. Maintenance (especially longer-term safety-related items such as brakes and tires) had to be performed on vehicles that were in limbo, despite owners wanting to get rid of the vehicle.

-Accessories/modifications: virtually everybody bought something for their TDI--even if it was just floormats, window/bumper stickers, custom sunshade, or a car cover. Some installed new speakers, trailer hitches, roof racks, or other expensive stuff. This was not accounted for in the buyback.

Other damages:

Here's where it gets difficult. Suppose someone has solar panels on their roof, recycles EVERYTHING, contributes to the Sierra Club and WWF, volunteers their time to enhance endangered species habitat, and buys a TDI because of its low "published" emissions and "clean diesel" ads, only to find out they're part of a corporate fraud to destroy the planet. Does this person have an "emotional harm" claim?
 

Rico567

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Central IL
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CHawk;5393643]Monetary damages:
-Transaction costs: These were not adequately accounted for in the settlement. <snip>

Whether one does the fix or the buyback, the money rendered by VW above the <presumed> market value of the car is compensation. This has been discussed in the TDI Club forums in several threads, and it can be considered that part of that compensation is for costs such as tax & etc. As for trade-in allowance, this is a state matter. Some states do, some don't. In any case, it hasn't been demonstrated that this was even within the purview of the Federal court.
-Limbo period: 14 months between news of scandal and start of buyback deprived owners of reasonable sale or trade-in opportunities, especially important in cases where a different vehicle was needed (people's vehicle needs don't remain static). <snip>
This is the area I referred to in my post above where I believe some people have additional legitimate claims. I have no idea or opinion about how those claims might be calculated.
-Accessories/modifications: virtually everybody bought something for their TDI-<snip>
We bought floor mats, winter fronts, and parts to easily fill the DEF tank. I don't expect any compensation for these things. If I had the car tinted, or put some fancy wheels on the car, what could I reasonably expect to get for those things if I traded? The answer, I think, is obvious: zip. (We also bought VCDS, but I omit that from consideration, because it can easily be sold separately.
Other damages:
Here's where it gets difficult. <snip>

This is certainly true— in spades, and raised to a power. This area goes to what the philosopher Allan Bloom discusses in The Closing of the American Mind as the new power of "commitment" to a cause somehow providing an adequate rationale for a person to be canonized as a saint. Without stepping off into deep water here, I'll just say: I don't get it.
 

Mythdoc

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^^Or, if you take a look around this forum, we have become a nation of underwear gnomes who think the spirit of everything is turning a PROFIT!!!!!
 
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phh-dfw

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Dallas
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2010 Jetta TDI
If you go to the court's website page for the claims supervisor's reports, and open the most recent two reports and get the numbers out of the "Progress Toward 85% Target" sections for the 2.0L (02-26-18) and the 3.0L (03-13-18), those that actually have accepted the settlement and either transacted a sale back to VW or had the "fix" done to their TDI are no where near 99.4% purported to have been happy with what was offered.

On the 2.0L, after deducting TDI's scrapped prior to "DieselGate", there were a total of 487,532 affected 2,0L TDI's, The objective was to get 85% of those off the road. Even if you throw in the 341 TDI's sold in the US but registered in Canada, between those sold back and those that had the "fix", there is a total of 385,638. THAT IS STRAIGHT OUT OF A COURT ACCEPTED AND POSTED DOCUMENT.

385,638 DIVIDED BY 487,532 IS 79.1% EITHER BOUGHT BACK OR REMEDIATED. SO HOW DOES THAT GET FROM THEIR TO 99.4%? THE WORDS THAT CAME OUT OF JUDGE BREYER'S MOUTH AND THE NUMBERS HE HAS ACCEPTED IN A COURT PUBLISHED REPORT ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME.

Also, if 99.4% are bought back or fixed, why do articles like the one at

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/29/597991227/why-300-000-volkswagens-are-being-stored-in-these-massive-auto-boneyards

only referring to 350,000 cars bought back?
 
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