Ran bio for about a year in a 2003 beetle. Never had any problems till now. I was running mostly B100 or B90 and now and then B20 or regular diesel. Had a seal go on my fuel pump and it won't hold a prime now. The seal happens to be on the spline side of the pump where it connects to the timing belt. I've had two shops say the seal went becuase I ran bio, and one shop said it was more likely regular diesel because they keep cleaning it up and taking out the sulfer, which doesn't allow the seals to season. Either way, it's going to be a heafty repair bill because most places say that part of the pump either can't be rebuilt or it would cost the same to get a new pump, plus they want to replace the timing belt since they have to take it out anyway. Looks to be between $2,000 and $3,000. One place did mention that there are better seals for the pump for biodiesel, but I'm wondering if I should ever run bio again because any little thing in this car costs an arm and a leg to repair. Maybe I should have done more research.
looks like I messed up
- Thread starter beetletx
- Start date
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
2 or 3 grand for a comprehensive and complete repair? Not!
Track down one of the many TDI go-to folks in TX.
Welcome aboard!
Track down one of the many TDI go-to folks in TX.
Welcome aboard!
"Maybe I should have done more research."
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=115689
misery loves company.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=115689
misery loves company.
snoopis
Veteran Member
If you're in DFW, you may want to get in touch with mtbr297 (Steve). He replaced all the seals on my pump in November. He did a great job and I didn't pay anywhere near that much.
well, I've called five places now and that seems to be the price. A new injector pump is 1100.00 and most places charge 500-700 to do the timing belt not to mention the labor for putting in the pump. I don't even dare to get a price from the dealership. One place is really cheap but I'm suspicious because they say they can rebuild the pump but want cash. I've heard bad things about shops that can supposedly rebuild these pumps and then they end up failing and you buy a new one anyway. A new update, had another mechanic say he would bet it's the new refined diesel that's caused the problem rather than bio, so that's 2 places for bio and 2 places against.dieseldorf said:
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
beetletx said:
dieseldorf said:
I agree, there are only one or two shops in the USA that are equipped to work on the pump assuming a more complex repair is needed.
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 1998
- Location
- Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
- TDI
- idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
The shaft seal on the 1996~1999 1Z/AHU engine can be replaced from outside. Yes, the pump has to be removed from the car, but nothing internal to the pump has to be touched. If fuel is leaking then it's probably being spun and flung onto the timing belt anyway. The rubber in the timing belt is resistant to neither diesel nor bio. Get the belt changed anyway.
The injector pump seal on the ALH and newer engines may be similar in design and also allow external shaft seal replacement.
The injector pump seal on the ALH and newer engines may be similar in design and also allow external shaft seal replacement.
well it's definately leaking from where it meets the timing belt. Although I can't see exactly where the leak is I assume it's the seal for the shaft of the pump. It's not leaking anywhere else like the back of the pump which is more common I hear. It definately leaks enough to lose prime in just a half day.Lug_Nut said:
TDITONY
Veteran Member
So far so good for me. I just about have 111,000 on my 02 Jetta and at least 65k of them is on at least B20. I have always used lube additives regardless of the fuel I use. I will be having Jason do the TB soon enough and we will give the seals a good hard look but my TDI still runs A1 and far better on B20 or better than any amount of D1 or D2.
I would get the seals replaced with Viton. I believe Parts Place "everything VW" has the seals that can be installed in the pump.
Tony B.
02 Jetta GLS
97 Passat GLS
(the TDI is assumed
)
I would get the seals replaced with Viton. I believe Parts Place "everything VW" has the seals that can be installed in the pump.
Tony B.
02 Jetta GLS
97 Passat GLS
(the TDI is assumed
)
bikeprof
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2005
- Location
- Pagosa Springs, Colorado(YEAH!)
- TDI
- 1996 Passat B4 Variant white, 1996 Town & Country 3.8 LXI
I HIGHLY recommend Diesel Injector Service in Portland.
The cost for complete R&R of my 1996 B4 was $587 USD+ shipping.
DO NOT PAY anyone EXTRA to do the timming belt since you are going to have to replace the TB anyway because as you mentioned..., it has to be taken off and replaced. So why not replace with a new one??? and ALL the other pulley/bearing/tensioner stuff? HU?
An automatic next step, no?
If you replace the seal at the end of the shaft, also replace the body and hat seals...
D2 diesel on the pumps now is 15PPM (parts per million) compared to 500PPM, sulphur was/is the main additive for lubrication and now there is less.
Biodiesel is a GREAT lubrication liquid and SOLVENT,
so good that unless there are VITON/new style seals, eventually the I.P. will begin to leak unless the TDI is a newer one(from '99.5 on, IHMO).
Also, BIO. is a GREAT hand cleaner.
Try it, you will be SURPRISED!
Quote: If you're in DFW, you may want to get in touch with mtbr297 (Steve). He replaced all the seals on my pump in November. He did a great job and I didn't pay anywhere near that much, SNOOPIS.
The cost for complete R&R of my 1996 B4 was $587 USD+ shipping.
DO NOT PAY anyone EXTRA to do the timming belt since you are going to have to replace the TB anyway because as you mentioned..., it has to be taken off and replaced. So why not replace with a new one??? and ALL the other pulley/bearing/tensioner stuff? HU?
An automatic next step, no?
If you replace the seal at the end of the shaft, also replace the body and hat seals...
D2 diesel on the pumps now is 15PPM (parts per million) compared to 500PPM, sulphur was/is the main additive for lubrication and now there is less.
Biodiesel is a GREAT lubrication liquid and SOLVENT,
so good that unless there are VITON/new style seals, eventually the I.P. will begin to leak unless the TDI is a newer one(from '99.5 on, IHMO).
Also, BIO. is a GREAT hand cleaner.
Try it, you will be SURPRISED!
Quote: If you're in DFW, you may want to get in touch with mtbr297 (Steve). He replaced all the seals on my pump in November. He did a great job and I didn't pay anywhere near that much, SNOOPIS.
bam_bam_dip
Veteran Member
OK, I'll be the first to ask. Since Texas is such a big state, what part of Texas are you from? That will help us find you a guru to go see.
The quotes I've been getting combine replacing the timing belt and injector pump. Some places said they would charge a little less for the timing belt replacement since they would already be in there and have to take it out anyway. I really don't want to replace the belt but it's about time at 80,000 miles. I really would like to save some money by not doing it, but everyone I talk to says I should just get it over with now while the pump is being fixed.bikeprof said:
bikeprof
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2005
- Location
- Pagosa Springs, Colorado(YEAH!)
- TDI
- 1996 Passat B4 Variant white, 1996 Town & Country 3.8 LXI
Send a PM to "aNUT", he may still be in the Austin area.
He is a great person/mechanic and can do the job for you.
(he is moving to Colorado but you may catch him in Austin ).
Any mechanic should charge you only the dissasembly/removal and rebuild/install of the pump.
The extra/added on TB. install cost should NOT happen!
Do the seals soon 'cause they tend to "let go" when least wanted .
LOLOLOL, and later pay $1,000 for the T.B. install, maybe a new engine and who knows what else?
Borrow the money if you have to BUT install a new T.B. and the tensioner, etc...!
He is a great person/mechanic and can do the job for you.
(he is moving to Colorado but you may catch him in Austin
).Any mechanic should charge you only the dissasembly/removal and rebuild/install of the pump.
The extra/added on TB. install cost should NOT happen!
Do the seals soon 'cause they tend to "let go" when least wanted
.LOLOLOL, and later pay $1,000 for the T.B. install, maybe a new engine and who knows what else?
Borrow the money if you have to BUT install a new T.B. and the tensioner, etc...!
Last edited:
bam_bam_dip
Veteran Member
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
A-men.bam_bam_dip said:
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 1998
- Location
- Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
- TDI
- idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Ultra-low Sulfur Fallacies
The process of sulfur removal also creates other changes in the petrodiesel which affect seals, but the presence or absence of the sulfur is not the cause. Adding sulfur back into 15 ppm petrodiesel will not prevent seal issues.
Biodiesel has good lubricity without sulfur. Adding sulfur to biodiesel will make it less so.
Sulfur is not a lubricant, sulfur is actually a main difference between metal cutting oil and lubricating oil.bikeprof said:
The process of sulfur removal also creates other changes in the petrodiesel which affect seals, but the presence or absence of the sulfur is not the cause. Adding sulfur back into 15 ppm petrodiesel will not prevent seal issues.
Biodiesel has good lubricity without sulfur. Adding sulfur to biodiesel will make it less so.
