Wiring diagrams

whitedog

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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I need some feedback, Peeps. I may have the opportunity to spend some time digging into the wiring diagrams and putting individual circuits on one page. I just hate digging through page after page in the Bentely going from here to there to figure out the power flow. I have started with a starting system diagram for a 98 New Beetle, but if I had the information, I could get it all drawn out. Here is what I have done so far:



I think that this would be a worthwhile project but I would need some assistance. I don't like the graph paper for the final drawings and I don't know if I would have access to a CAD program to get it drawn up nice and neat, so I would need someone to help with that. If you want to volunteer, let me know.

Secondly, I would need some technical assistance to be sure that everything is correct. I have given thought to trying to put in test points and excpected voltage readings, but I'm not sure how much of that I can do myself. Again, let me know if you can help.

This isn't something that will be happening in the next few weeks, or even the next few months, but I certainly want to get it going this year, so let me know your thoughts. If you go to my pictures here, you can see a bigger picture that you can read better.

I also need some help up front. I need to know if what I have there is understandable by the average person here. Does it make sense and could you trace out the wiring on that? What other information is needed to help make it clear to everyone?

Give me some feedback and lets see if this thing will be doable.
 

whitedog

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Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
IF I am able to go through with this project, I don't think that I would be able to do the CAD drawings; there are roadblocks that may inhibit that ability for me. As things settle down in the coming months, I'll have more information and can go forward from there, but right now, I'm trying to get some things in place for when (if) I can actually do this.

Thanks Matthew for your support. As I learn more, I'll keep in touch.

From a technical standpoint, what are your initial thoughts on that beta drawing?
 

AndyBees

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May 27, 2003
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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Whitedog, I admire your courage and wish you success with the project.

My story and experience with a TDI wiring harness (2001 Jetta):

Back in late Janaury of this year, I all but shipped my wiring harness to be modified for a TDI installion in my Vanagon. I had issues with the local Post Office.

So, after giving it considerable thought and no experience with automotive wiring diagrams, I began the process of doing the job myself.

First off, I made working copies of 33 pages of diagrams (enlarged them so I could see and make notes on them). There are 13 pages related to the "engine" and 20 pages related to "standard equipment." Also, about 5 pages dealing with the AC. During the numerous hours of studying the diagrams, making notes, working with the wiring harness, I began to learn how they work, splices, color coding, switches, connectors, relays, etc. I also have typed eleven pages of notes on various components

At first the diagrams were so overwhelming that I almost gave up. But, during the month of February, almost everyday for three or four hours, I studied various circuits, components, etc., from the enlarged diagrams.

I am not an expert by no means, but the 101 in "self education" of automotive wiring diagrams will be most helpful with challenges on down the road, especially with the Vanagon!

I'll keep up with your project and comment if I think it will be helpful.
 

Ookpic

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Jun 20, 2008
Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
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2002 Golf 2Dr 5spd
Is this kinda what you are looking for? The scaling is a bit off and I couldn't really read all of your text so I left it un-labeled. Some symbols I didn't have but could always make when the need arises. It is a fairly big undertaking you are proposing but if you wish to take the time to flip through pages and draw out the circuits, I'll offer to convert to digital and create .pdf files so long as I can post it on my website as well? Props would remain yours. LMK

 

Alchemist

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Lethbridge, Alberta
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'04 ALH Golf
Whitedog, I love that drawing. The whole system operation is explained at a glance. Perhaps others could take one circuit and do the same, then the whole project could be compiled. I could take a page or two and fax/email the result to the draftsman.

Ookpic, I think the drawing benefits from your efforts. As you said, scaling and possibly a few new symbols with lables and you have a first class product.

Let the games begin.
 

whitedog

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Location
Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Andy, yes this is an ambitious project and I wish that I had thought of it months ago when I knew that I had the resources. In the coming months, changes will be made and I am unsure of what I will be able to do, but I will try to get this worked on. Right now, I'm just seeing if others will be able to help with things like Matthew and Ookpic have mentioned.

Ookpic, you rock. Your drawing looks nice with just the few technical glitches I mentioned in the PM. (Oh and the motor really should be round) Your offer of hosting is supurb. If this works out like I dream, anyone could go to that site and search for whatever wiring diagram they need and see it all on one page and have all of the testing information right there rather than digging through pages and flipping back and forth and tying to find what the heck a J393 is and how it gets power, etc.

Do you have access to a Bentley? It has a page with all of the symbols. Possibly you could use that to make them?

Another thought I had is that I don't see a copyright issue with this since we would be taking information and compiling it into something that looks completely different. Does that sound right?

Lastly, again, I need some feedback from folks that aren't real good with this stuff to let us know if it's understandable and what could possibly be done to make it more understandable for the layman.
 

Ookpic

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Jun 20, 2008
Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
TDI
2002 Golf 2Dr 5spd
Yes have Bentley, will look up symbols. Print was just a quicky and made due with symbols in list. Currently acquiring couple of different softwares to "trial" out and see which one is the nicest. I'll tweek the above sometime today if I get a chance and put it up again.
 

CoolAirVw

Vendor
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Nov 9, 2005
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
Jetta
Mitchell On-Demand takes OEM schematics and redraws them to a understandable format, for specific systems. Unfortunatly printing them and distributing them is not allowed.

On a side not the format is consistant between makes so its understandable whether I'm working on


whitedog said:
Andy, yes this is an ambitious project and I wish that I had thought of it months ago when I knew that I had the resources. In the coming months, changes will be made and I am unsure of what I will be able to do, but I will try to get this worked on.
Ambitious but admireable project. How on earth would you have the time for this?
 

whitedog

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Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
We are trying to find symbols. We have them in the paper Bentley, but I cannot find them in the electronic version and Ookpic would prefer that over his scanned versions.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
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May 14, 2001
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Portland Oregon
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2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Dog, I actually did this a bit with the heated seat wiring. I'm having trouble pulling up the diagram though....
 

Ookpic

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Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
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2002 Golf 2Dr 5spd
What I would be looking for is a single page from the Bentley manual. The paper manual shows it as 97-14 and 97-15. This page is a legend for all symbols used in the wiring diagrams. (My personal favourite is the dual filament light bulb). :D

I'll be creating all symbols and then importing them to either visio or smartdraw. So far Visio is the easier one to use but Smartdraw has better UI and most likely just a steeper learning curve to get it to do what I want.

Anywho, if I have a digital copy of this page possibly some zoom shots of the symbols as well, that would be awesome! Save me creating them all by hand. I would get the eBahn to compliment my paper version however we are unsure whether this page exists in the DVD version.
 

jcrews

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Check out TinyCAD for drawing. That, or any other free (as in speech) schematic capture software is worth looking at. Dr. Wik E. Pedia knows about a few of them.

Dia is Visio inspired if you prefer a more UML-like method. There are plenty of other open UML/schematic capture suites, just take a look with your favorite search engine.

Here's the "How to read wiring diagrams" document from Ebahn. Pp. 4-6 has the list of all symbols.
 
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whitedog

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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Power circuit

Somehting else that I think would be helpful would be a general power circuit. The following is just a partial, but I'm throwing it up there for feedback.



I wouldn't have things like "glow plug relay" then "glow plugs" but would rather just have "glow plug circuit".

What other things should be on this? I'm thinking that this would be a good resource for tracking down an amp draw.

I think that I will listen to what Matthew said and skip dropping all of the grounds to the bottom. It could get very difficult in more complicated systems so it would be best to maintain continuity. (unintentional, but very nice pun :) )
 
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hughgb

Member
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Apr 10, 2009
Location
mount pearl nl
TDI
jetta
radio wiring

Does anyone know the colour code to determine what wire goes where, ie: red -power, Grenn - ground, Etc. I have a 99 Jetta TDI diesel. Thanks.
 

Sip'n Diesel

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whitedog you will likely be receiving a Nobel Peace Prize within a couple of years... I am not good with this (electronics/wiring) type of thing at all. I bought one of those cheap-o multimeter/voltmeters awhile back and I still haven't learned how to use it properly and how to avoid frying things and especially avoiding self-electrocution:eek::eek:

this thread gives me motivation to start learning, because it's only a matter of time until the electrical gremlins decide to pay me a visit. your idea is a very good one, because it does take a lot of searching/flipping to find something specific (especially if you are me)

:cool:OTOH I have become pretty good with a MityVac, which I purchased with the multimeter
 

Lug_Nut

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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
I personally prefer the "E-plan" type schematics as the Bentley manual reproduces to the 'overview' type being considered here.
The E-plan is basically a 'ladder' diagram laid over on it's side. Positive or + voltage is on top and progresses down from "hot" to switched to LRR through consumers and finally down the page to ground or - voltage at the bottom.
My 1969 Sonett has the overview format, and even with it's simple enough wiring it is barely comprehensible to me.
 

whitedog

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Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Lug_Nut said:
I personally prefer the "E-plan" type schematics as the Bentley manual reproduces to the 'overview' type being considered here.
The E-plan is basically a 'ladder' diagram laid over on it's side. Positive or + voltage is on top and progresses down from "hot" to switched to LRR through consumers and finally down the page to ground or - voltage at the bottom.
My 1969 Sonett has the overview format, and even with it's simple enough wiring it is barely comprehensible to me.
Cool. So if I get stuck understanding something, expect a note. :D
 

Ookpic

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Jun 20, 2008
Location
London, ON - Port Huron, MI
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Had a little time tonight to work on this. All symbols are now imported and here is a draft. It is clickable to get larger version.



LMK what you think.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
That looks great.

The only thing that I see from a quality viewpoint is the wire connection numbers in the CCM should be right at the point where the wire comes in rather than in the corners.

I like having the fuse number and amperage right at the fuse. On the one that I am working on now, I have them just as a reference number but I'll change that.

Also, I will be going to putting the ground points right at the device rather than running them all to the bottom. I will also have the location of each of those ground points.

And I need to show the ground for the CCM.

I'll go over it one more time and show where I could have done better in my drawing and I think that it would be GTG.
 
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whitedog

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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Here is another version for the >2000 JGB. We still need some feedback on some things.



HERE is a PDF of the reference numbers. this will show you where ground #42 is and what device "B" is and where to find connection A32, etc.

After working on another diagram, it's obvious that Matthew was right about putting the grounds right at the devices rather than running them down to the bottom as a common ground so thanks for that.

The question up for discussion is how to handle different engines/transmissions/years/models. In this example, I have the automatic and manual transmission on the same page. Would it be better to have separate pages for each one, or the same page with all applicable scenarios (e/t/y/m) pointing to the same page?

I would appreciate the feedback, especially the bad and the ugly. The good feedback mostly feeds the ego and I'll skip that, but thanks. :)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Why on Earth are you trying to reinvent the wheel? VAG's factory diagrams are simple and easy to use. I just wish there were not so many mistakes in them, but as far as layout the track-style (or 'ladder' type as Lug Nut calls them) is pretty good.

VAG went to these WAY back in the early '70s due to increasing complexity, so you are attempting to go backwards???? :confused:
 

whitedog

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Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
It took at least 9 pages to find all of the components and wires for the A/C system on the 98 Beetle. That is not easy to follow. I have it all on one drawing.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
But I prefer (and most professionals prefer) to see ALL the wiring, since typically when you are looking at a diagram it is to find a problem. And so often electrical problems manifest themselves in ways that tie seemingly unrelated circuits to one another.

For instance, did you know that on a 2002 Jetta wagon if you remove one fuse, not only will the A/C not work, but the parking brake warning indicator won't work and the headlight DRL circuit won't work. If you just were looking at the A/C wiring, and not the rest of the stuff, you would NEVER be able to figure out how those 2 systems are related.

Troubleshooting electrical problems without all the info would be like troubleshooting a brake noise without driving the car.

I think your project would be helpful to some folks for the purpose of training or understanding the theory behind automotive electronics, but there are already plenty of textbooks for such pursuits.

But for actual troubleshooting, no way. I think your efforts would be better spent illustrating how to actually use the diagrams, which I for one find pretty easy and straightforward. But I have to, my career depends on it. ;)
 

CoolAirVw

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Location
Kansas City Missouri
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Jetta
I think having a database of schematics on your website would generate lots of traffic and be excellent for business.

I think it would be a good business move.

With regards to "what else is on the circuit" a simple dead end branch on a circuit that ends with ".... to a/c clutch" or "...to park brake indicator" or "... to headlight DRL" would be sufficient, and of course on the a/c clutch scehmatic it would need a dead end branch that said.. "...to park brake indicator".
 
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DanG144

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Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
oilhammer said:
...

For instance, did you know that on a 2002 Jetta wagon if you remove one fuse, not only will the A/C not work, but the parking brake warning indicator won't work and the headlight DRL circuit won't work. If you just were looking at the A/C wiring, and not the rest of the stuff, you would NEVER be able to figure out how those 2 systems are related...

;)
Brian, which fuse would that be? (I will have to wait until later to look at the schematic.)

Dan
 
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