Stories when filling up at "gasoline station"

TornadoRed

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The whole thing about different amounts of fuel in summer and winter sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. Most tanks are underground, which maintains a pretty constant temperature. That's the basis for geothermal heat pumps after all. So, unless you buy from a place with above ground pumps, I doubt it makes much difference. If the temp underground is 50F then I doubt it expands much in the few seconds it takes to travel to the nozzle. Just another story to rile people up over nothing, IMO.
Colder fuel is more dense. At most stations, the fuel does not sit in underground tanks for many days, but is replaced frequently. So in the summer, if the fuel is warm when it is delivered, it stays warm. And in the winter, in the colder climates, it may be below 32°F when delivered and remain that cold until it's pumped into your car or truck.

At the terminals, all the tanks are above-ground.

Here is some recent news:
4/20/2012
Three More Companies Settle in 'Hot Fuel' Suits

Three companies, Walmart (and its Sam's Club subsidiary), Valero Energy Corp. and Casey's General Stores have joined the ranks of businesses settling "hot fuel" lawsuits, reports the Kansas City Star.

Hot fuel is the term used for the expansion of fuel in warmer temperatures. Because of this, consumers at the pump get less energy per gallon while paying the same price.

Lawsuits in recent years have charged oil companies and fuel providers with failing to adjust prices for temperature changes (although oil companies argue that in the colder months, consumers get more energy per gallon).

These three newest settlements must still be approved by the court's chief judge, Kathryn Vratil, but if she does approve, they will apply to dozens of hot-fuel lawsuits filed around the U.S.

Two weeks ago, BP Products North America Inc., ConocoPhillips Co. and Shell Oil Products US agreed to settle. The details of those settlements are not yet available, but they will likely stipulate that the companies facilitate the adoption of a hot-fuel fix, the Star reported. This would automatically adjust prices for temperature at fueling stations.

Costco Wholesale Corp. settled 2009, agreeing to change pumps in the hottest regions of the country.

When it first started reporting on the issue, The Kansas City Star estimated that hot fuel costs consumers $2.3 billion a year, now $3.5 billion at current fuel prices.
 

Mike in Anchorage

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Most tanks are underground, which maintains a pretty constant temperature. That's the basis for geothermal heat pumps after all. So, unless you buy from a place with above ground pumps, I doubt it makes much difference. If the temp underground is 50F then I doubt it expands much in the few seconds it takes to travel to the nozzle.
A couple of times this winter I noticed frost on the pump nozzle right after we'd had some ice fog. After I filled up, it was all gone. I don't know how far down the tanks are, but I'm guessing the temp is a constant 38°F or so.
 

canux

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Toronto
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In the Toronto region the temperature of the ground 7' down is 7-8C in the dead of Winter. In the Summer it is about 14C. Here most pumps simply have a sticker on them that say that the volume is corrected to 15C which is about the underground temperature in the Summer. That sounds to me like you are getting more fuel energy for the same money in the Winter months, barring Winterization of the fuel of course.
 

nicklockard

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Arizona
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SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
diesel's volume expansion coefficient is really small.

technical file said:
Source: Chevron website technical file

THERMAL EXPANSION
Like all liquids, diesel fuel expands slightly in volume as its temperature increases. The coefficient of thermal expansion measures the rate of the expansion. A typical value of the coefficient of thermal expansion for diesel fuel is 0.00083 per degree Celsius (0.00046 per degree Fahrenheit). Using this value, 1.000 gallon of diesel fuel at -7°C (20°F) will expand to 1.037 gallons at 38°C (100°F).
 

TornadoRed

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diesel's volume expansion coefficient is really small.
That is true. But lawyers heard about "hot fuel" and figured there was a lot of money to be made by suing the fuel retailers. Apparently no one wants to go to court to battle against this.
 

kjclow

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It's easier and cheaper to settle than to drag it into court.
 

TDiSkater

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Well it took 14 months of fueling without ever seeing another TDI pull up at the same time and finally today an A3 drives up at the other diesel island. I had just started filling, so casually walked over to make sure it was in fact a TDI. I fuel at a truck station where only 1 of 4 nozzles is auto sized. Young lady starts to get out and I do see TDI. Tell her only high flow nozzles in this area except the side I'm using. I can see that didn't resonate and then said all the pumps other than mine are for trucks. I was hoping to strike up a conversation to see if she was a member, but she just stayed in her car with the windows up until I was done.
 
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jrivers804

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Cape Charles, VA USA
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Jetta, 1998, White
Mark III TDIs take high flow or truck nozzles just fine. One advantage to my 98, I can fill up just about any where that sells diesel. I say "just about" because I'm sure there's an exception but I've been able to fill at any diesel pump I've tried. The 06 on the other hand needs the "car" sized nozzle.
 

bhtooefr

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I think TDiSkater may have meant Audi A3, which is a Mk5, and therefore can't take high flow nozzles.
 

Rico567

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Central IL
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2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
My wife is the daily driver of her Gecko Green Metallic '06 MB TDI. I rarely, if ever, drive it. My wife tells me that there is always some "helpful" male driver at the station who "let's her know" that she is "putting diesel into her car!!" She always smiles, but says nothing, because she doesn't want some strange guy to be angry at her at a fueling station. I would regularly tell her what I would say if it happened to me. Yesterday I got my chance.

My wife had driven my car to work so I could put new windshield wipers on the car. I decided to fill it up while I had it. All of the pumps at the station were being used, except the diesel pump, which is on the same "one-pump island" as the gas pump. There was some middle-aged guy with his new Corvette filling at the gas pump. I backed into the diesel pump, just behind his car. I popped the fuel door and proceeded to get the diesel pump ready to fill the car. Mr. Helpful, with the Corvette, said, in his condescending voice, "you know that pump is diesel, right?."

I had the chance I had practiced for!!!

I responded: "You mean you don't choose the color of the pump handle to match the car?" The diesel pump handles are green, like the car. He says: No!! "That is diesel fuel, not gas!" I said: "What do you think I should put into the car?" He said: "Gasoline, Not diesel! Of course!" I said: "I wonder why Volkswagen printed 'Diesel fuel only' on this fuel lid and fuel cap? Think I should ignore it and put in gasoline anyways?" He looked shocked. I pointed to the chrome "TDI" badge I put under the VW symbol on the rear decklid and said "The 'D' in TDI stands for Diesel, not 'Dip****'." I then proceeded to fill up the car.

He didn't say another word.

My wife was so happy that it finally got to be said.
I wouldn't say this to anyone in a gas station (hell, ANYWHERE). Must be my morbid fear of dying.....
 

TDiSkater

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I think TDiSkater may have meant Audi A3, which is a Mk5, and therefore can't take high flow nozzles.
Sorry, yes Audi A3. I guess I got overly excited and didn't realize A3 also had a VW meaning. Learned something new today.

I usually fuel next to a fire truck or all by myself in the truck area of the station. I frequently fuel on Sunday to avoid the insane truck traffic during the week.
 
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bhtooefr

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Yeah, I think this is why VW switched to P designations in the Mk4 Golf era (as in, instead of A4, PQ34), and why Europeans tend to use the Typ code.

So, we'd be talking about the Typ 8P Audi A3, rather than the Typ 1H VW Jetta.
 

mrvermin

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Yeah, I think this is why VW switched to P designations in the Mk4 Golf era (as in, instead of A4, PQ34), and why Europeans tend to use the Typ code.

So, we'd be talking about the Typ 8P Audi A3, rather than the Typ 1H VW Jetta.
Or you could just use the terms Mk3 versus A3 :D

On the Filling up side of the thread... Not much, in Toronto, keep filling up next to Merc Bluetechs and X5d's no one notices a TDI .... LOL


MrVermin
 

ReadyKilowatt

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Aspen, CO
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2012 A3
Back when I was driving my first diesel (a Ford F-550 superduty with a bucket lift) I remember getting fuel when an older gentleman pulled up to the pump opposite me and asked, in a heavy British accent) if I "would verify the green handles were for diesel and black for gasoline." I confirmed that was the case and he explained that this was the opposite in Great Britain. We then had a short conversation about his trip (they were visiting the Rocky Mountain National Park on a tour of the western US), and how strange it was that there weren't more diesels sold in the US, given the "great distances we travel." I think that conversation got me thinking about a diesel for my next vehicle. Lord knows that damn Ford truck didn't.
 

bhtooefr

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Be careful with that, though - it's a per-station thing, and some BPs, even in the US, actually obey the British standard of a black handle for diesel.
 

eric.mathison

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Phx Az
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2005 passat b5.5
yea theres a chevron that has it reversed by where i live :/ don't know what they were thinking

no cool fill up stores for me but i havnt owned for long
 

naturist

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Bro Jerry's hometown, Virginia
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@eric.mathison, @ReadyKilowatt, et al: be aware that THERE IS NO LEGAL OR OTHER REQUIRED COLOR SCHEME FOR PUMP HANDLES IN THE US. Look around a bit, even just in this very thread, and you will find plenty of horror stories from folks who misfueled their vehicle because they were going by handle color rather than reading the signs on the pump.
 

mrvermin

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GTA
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2001 Jetta TDI
@eric.mathison, @ReadyKilowatt, et al: be aware that THERE IS NO LEGAL OR OTHER REQUIRED COLOR SCHEME FOR PUMP HANDLES IN THE US. Look around a bit, even just in this very thread, and you will find plenty of horror stories from folks who misfueled their vehicle because they were going by handle color rather than reading the signs on the pump.

Drive up to pump, get out of car, see the word Diesel on pump, place bank/credit card in pump, see the word Diesel on pump, push numbers on pump to get fuel, see the word Diesel on pump, grab handle from pump and push flow button, see the word Diesel on pump and flow button....

3 minutes at pump before actual start of fuel flowing, all the time with the word Diesel in my face.... I think I got the right pump :rolleyes:

Ok, I know.... I am a bit heavy with the sarcasm, :eek:

MrVermin
 

JSWTDI09

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Ok, I know.... I am a bit heavy with the sarcasm, :eek:
There is nothing wrong with sarcasm, if it gets the point across. On my (almost) 2000 mile drive to TDIFest last year, I pumped fuel from green, black, and yellow pump handles - all of them diesel fuel. The color of the handle it meaningless. You MUST pay attention to what you are doing - period.

Have Fun!

Don
 

verylongdrive

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Feb 10, 2005
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HSV
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Golf,2001
see the word Diesel on pump and flow button
Absolutely. Nowadays, even single-choice pumps make you push a "DIESEL" button, while the wrong handle on a multi-choice pump won't give gas unless you press a button other than "DIESEL". This makes pump handle color discussion as reasonable as the neverending circular where/how-much-$/how-many-miles/where/... Diesel Exhaust Fluid threads in the Passat section.

On-topic: The only noteworthy experience I've ever had with Diesel was years ago at the back-lot Diesel part of a NH station. Late at night in the dark, I'm at the only pump that didn't have a too-fast-to-function truck nozzle, and a CRD Jeep with black windows drives up, stops at an odd angle, and then keeps revving his engine at me - as if to threaten me?
 
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Tom Servo

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I can add one step to mrvermin's sarcastic but realistic post: Smell. I always give a whiff of the fuel. It's amazing how wide a range of smells diesel can have. From "almost no smell at all" to "pungent, bitter, makes me sneeze".
 

eric.mathison

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Apr 28, 2012
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Phx Az
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2005 passat b5.5
@eric.mathison, @ReadyKilowatt, et al: be aware that THERE IS NO LEGAL OR OTHER REQUIRED COLOR SCHEME FOR PUMP HANDLES IN THE US. Look around a bit, even just in this very thread, and you will find plenty of horror stories from folks who misfueled their vehicle because they were going by handle color rather than reading the signs on the pump.
yea i would say in my area though 90% + of the pumps are green
 

MN_TDI12

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Triad, NC
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2012 Jetta TDI DSG w/Nav
At my main filling station, diesel is on an island out back w/ premium gas. There's 4 pumps for diesel, 2 w/ green handles and 2 w/ black handles. Each set had one auto and one truck nozzle. They used to be split for 2% and 5% bio w/ the 5% being swapped for winter blend when required. Now, everything is 5% bio, again w/ one set being swapped to winterized fuel during the chilly months.

No real stories in the 8 months I've had the car. The first fill I had older fella give me quite the puzzled look, second fill I happened to pull up while another TDIer happened to be filling up. He was just passing thru on business. As far as I'm aware, I'm the only guy in my area w/ a TDI. However, in the town were I work, I'm starting to see more and more.
 
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bhtooefr

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Newark, OH
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Thats why when it comes to the A platform, I just say Mk 1,2,3, etc
And the Europeans say 17, 19, 1H, 1J, 1K, and 5K (at least for Golfs - the Mk4 Jetta is 9M, the Mk6 Jetta is 5C, the New Beetle is 1C, and the new Beetle is 5C just like the Jetta. I won't get into all the Audi, SEAT, and Skoda rebadges of the A platform, though.)
 

kennethsime

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California
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Only ever once had someone confront me for filling up with diesel, although I get quite a few funny looks. Nice guy though.
 

SilverGhost

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Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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And the Europeans say 17, 19, 1H, 1J, 1K, and 5K (at least for Golfs - the Mk4 Jetta is 9M, the Mk6 Jetta is 5C, the New Beetle is 1C, and the new Beetle is 5C just like the Jetta. I won't get into all the Audi, SEAT, and Skoda rebadges of the A platform, though.)
Except the current Jetta is not 5C, it is 16. And the 1J Golf was actually a 9B (so maybe Mk6 Jetta is 5C?)

A, B, C, D, E platforms are industry wide designations in Europe, from what I can tell. Over there you hear people talk about A or B class cars and what models fit in that class.

On topic - I fill up only every 2 or 3 months right now and when I do people don't hardly notice. But then most people here in S Florida car about themselves and not much else.

Jason
 
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