First Oil Change??

Greetings to all!

I'm the proud owner of a Silver 2002 New Beetle GLS TDI and I've loved every minute of our first week together. This is the first new diesel I've owned(I drove a used 87 golf for 2 trouble free years). The car was one of the last 2002 models on the lot. I got a good deal at 16,250, which was $2200 off the sticker.

My question is simple. When should I have the oil changed the first time? I know the owners manual list the first scheduled oil change at 5000 miles, but I've always thought that your first oil change on any new car should occur at 500-1000 miles.

Also, are there any other items that I should be concerned about during the break-in period other than not over revving the engine?

-RolfAlm

Here's my opinion, and it's only that. DO NOT change the oil before 5k miles. The oil that's in there is special oil that allows the engine to break in properly. Even if it isn't, the particulates that collect in the oil (from what I've been told) further help the break-in process by being slightly more abrasive than "clean" oil, so any shavings or pieces that aren't perfectly matched will be, in a way, sanded down to be a better match... you are actually doing harm by removing that oil early, so don't do it.

This is just from what I've heard, but it makes a good bit of sense, in my opinion...

The manual says first oil change at 5000 for a reason. Let the break-in oil do it's job.

Thanks for the quick response...

4500 miles to go!

silly rabbit, do whatever you want. Just remember that someone who has researched oil changes ALOT more than you wrote the book.

and you second guess them? DIE!

5000 is the best. this aint 1940, and there aint gonna be no big ole metal flakes in the oil. in fact, it may take 20,000 or more miles to break the engine in, and some have reported peak compression numbers arent reached until 60,000 miles, meaning the engine isnt FULLY and completely broken in until 60,000 miles. unbelievable? welcome to the 21st century.

[ October 22, 2002, 06:24: Message edited by: car 54 ]

damn 5k miles before first oil change. and i thought 1k miles was a long time to wait !

Another lesson learned. Keep up the good work.

a differing opinion re first oil change before 5k

Here's what a senior automotive engineer/six sigma master black belt told
me about an early oil change (more or less):

During break-in, a soft metal layer in the main engine bearings
(the bearing surface consists of several different layers)
"absorbs" any small metal particles the oil filter doesn't catch
due to the machining of the engine parts. This prevents these
particles from continually scoring parts including the crankshaft
*IF* all goes well this process works so there is no need for an
early oil change. *IF* things don't go well - e.g., you have more
than usual particulate in your engine - then the process doesn't necessarily work and you are better off getting new oil.

In his opinion, the benefit of leaving the oil in for the full 5k was
outweighed by the risk that there was a greater than normal level
of particulate. He suggested changing the oil around 1500 miles.
Given the fact that VW's quality control is not great - and thus that
the VW engineers do not possess godlike knowledge of how to build/
break-in vehicles so they last without problems, I went with his
opinion.

The only way to know for sure which approach is best, pre 5k vs. 5k,
would be to randomly assign a large number of vehicles to each approach and see which engines last longer. This would be very hard to do well
and I doubt it's ever been done.

Welcome to Fred's, statguy!

Interesting first post. I don't know if it makes a huge difference between a 1500 mile change and 5000 mile, but I don't doubt VW engineering. I commend you on using the search function before posting. I take it you came across other discussions on this subject?

Find one with commentary by Drivbiwire or SUNRG. Good explanations of what happens during the break-in period and how modern synthetic oils change during use.

Pssst! Hey Guys! The original post was in 2002. I hope the first oil change done many miles/years ago.

sshhh, I wanna see this thread pop up again in 2008.

Man, I have been searching for the post put up in 2002, but I cannot find it to save my life. I can't spend that much time looking. My a$$ is getting tired from sitting this long. Can somebody help me out finding it? No, this thread is not dead yet....

i have read this thread and have to say i disagree with the reasons listed for long break in period. firstly some manufacturers used to in the day use a non-detergent oil for break ins. the reason an engine needs to break in is for the piston rings to polish the crosshatch honing cylinder walls and etch its own machined irregularities, making a micro goove in the wall to match rings. during break in period the reason rpm is recomended to stay low is due to excesive heat and friction of rings and piston skirts create on walls.thats why some engines must be changed at low interval first time, oil has lost its viscosity from heat. race engines have no break in period due to polished cylinder walls accomplished by cork honing after a much finer honing stone. now back to diesels. diesels have a thicker oil and a much higher detergent than gas motor engines. detergent that suspends dirt that gets filtered. the reason the breakin period is so long is due to the amount of oil quenching that the cylinders get. it takes longer for the piston rings to seat on walls. the proof is in the longivity of diesels to its gas counterpart. run a thicker high detergent oil in a gas engine and see how the cylinder walls hold up better. synthetic oils have a better lubrication quality than conventional oil, thats the reason for thinner grades. thinner grades coat less causing a dry start up. but flow faster in cold helping lubrication faster. not an expert here, just a knowledged mechanic/engine builder

I have a new 2009 VW Jetta TDI sedan and this question is even more so an issue for me. The '09 edition instructs us to wait for 10,000 miles before getting the oil changed. I have been following Drivbiwire's break in procedures to needless to say I haven't been exactly gentle on the engine. I am at about 4,100 miles and just want to get it set in my head exactly when I will perform my first oil change. So 10k everbody???

the '09 is a different animal and requires a different oil (507). If the manual says 10k, i'd go with it. But if you want to do one at 5k then 10k and 10k thereafter, I would not argue with you.

weedeater said:

the '09 is a different animal and requires a different oil (507). If the manual says 10k, i'd go with it. But if you want to do one at 5k then 10k and 10k thereafter, I would not argue with you.

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Ugh... i just can't decide. This is my first diesel and I have never had to decide something like this.

European VW TDI manual never stated to do an oil change at 5k miles. It says 10k miles interval even for the first oil change. Same for CR, PD and pre-PD engines as far as I can remember.

dsimmelink: read this info from Drivbiwire and then you'll see why an early oil change is unnecessary.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2264550&postcount=28

New engines are assembled mounted in a dyno rig and started. The Engine is run by a computer and put thru a complete pre-programmed break in cycle. This include idle for 3 minutes while systems checks are done. Then the motor load is increased (without raising rpms) to verify the idle characteristics. Then rpms are gradually increased with specific changes of load to promote fluctuations in cylinder pressures. RPM's eventually reach the maximum to insure the motor produces rated power and torque within limits, then the motor is idled and shut down total time about 25 minutes. Engines that pass move on for purging and crating, engines that fail get sold off as factory defects to the aftermarket at reduced prices.

When removed from the test cell, every motor is drained of oil, oil filter replaced, coolant, engine is completely flushed (required for shipping and HAZMAT reasons), Filled with an unique oil that meets a specific VW "TL" specification (synthetic oil + VW certified additive package + preservative additives/corrosion inhibiters) which is also called a "Break-In" oil and then shipped for final installation.
(snip)
NEVER drain a VW oil early in a new motor! The engine is already run-in (to achieve the min compression spec of around 435psi) and has already been purged of the initial fill after a very detailed break-in run. The break-in oils are thinner than your typical lubricant BUT contain all the specific additives required to promote engine break in.

Oh wow thanks for that updated guide TornadoRed. I was following the old one as I hadn't seen that new one. It all sounds great except for AHHH!!! No cruise control till 10,000 miles!! I am up to 4100 and was stoked to set the cruise on my road trips. Ah well, I'll hit 10k soon enough the way I've been cruising. =P

Thanks again very much!!!!

TornadoRed said:

dsimmelink: read this info from Drivbiwire and then you'll see why an early oil change is unnecessary.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2264550&postcount=28

New engines are assembled mounted in a dyno rig and started. The Engine is run by a computer and put thru a complete pre-programmed break in cycle. This include idle for 3 minutes while systems checks are done. Then the motor load is increased (without raising rpms) to verify the idle characteristics. Then rpms are gradually increased with specific changes of load to promote fluctuations in cylinder pressures. RPM's eventually reach the maximum to insure the motor produces rated power and torque within limits, then the motor is idled and shut down total time about 25 minutes. Engines that pass move on for purging and crating, engines that fail get sold off as factory defects to the aftermarket at reduced prices.

When removed from the test cell, every motor is drained of oil, oil filter replaced, coolant, engine is completely flushed (required for shipping and HAZMAT reasons), Filled with an unique oil that meets a specific VW "TL" specification (synthetic oil + VW certified additive package + preservative additives/corrosion inhibiters) which is also called a "Break-In" oil and then shipped for final installation.
(snip)
NEVER drain a VW oil early in a new motor! The engine is already run-in (to achieve the min compression spec of around 435psi) and has already been purged of the initial fill after a very detailed break-in run. The break-in oils are thinner than your typical lubricant BUT contain all the specific additives required to promote engine break in.

Click to expand...

dsimmelink said:

Oh wow thanks for that updated guide TornadoRed. I was following the old one as I hadn't seen that new one. It all sounds great except for AHHH!!! No cruise control till 10,000 miles!! I am up to 4100 and was stoked to set the cruise on my road trips. Ah well, I'll hit 10k soon enough the way I've been cruising. =P

Thanks again very much!!!!

Click to expand...

I would use cruise control if I were you... occasionally accelerating then decelerating when safe to do so. I know DB says not to use CC until after 10k miles, but if you are doing everything else correctly in the "breaking in" guidelines, then I don't see why you can't start using it after the initial 1000 miles. Just don't maintain a constant engine RPM for hundreds of miles at a stretch.

TornadoRed said:

I would use cruise control if I were you... occasionally accelerating then decelerating when safe to do so. I know DB says not to use CC until after 10k miles, but if you are doing everything else correctly in the "breaking in" guidelines, then I don't see why you can't start using it after the initial 1000 miles. Just don't maintain a constant engine RPM for hundreds of miles at a stretch.

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Thanks Tornado,
I probably will begin using it and just make sure I don't maintain constant constant RPMs.

dsimmelink said:

Thanks Tornado,
I probably will begin using it and just make sure I don't maintain constant constant RPMs.

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Do you have a hilly drive there in WA state? If so, the hills will put a nice load on the motor as you drive with the CC on. And the occasional zip to 80 MPH uphill

Bob_Fout said:

Do you have a hilly drive there in WA state? If so, the hills will put a nice load on the motor as you drive with the CC on. And the occasional zip to 80 MPH uphill

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Well it depends on what part of the state I'm driving on. But yes in my area we definitely have hills. Mountains even. Most of my CC driving would be on the freeway so gentle slopes is the main part of what I'd hit. But I'm glad that I can safely use it now!

broke-in my 98 long time ago

i think i first changed the oil at 3k mi.

i live in sacramento and was working in los angeles at the time so my break in was driving i5 - constant speed and i probably used my cruise control.

i didn't know it then but the car requires synthetic, so for about the first 100k mi i ran regular 15w - 40.

so i did those things wrong...

now i run mobil 1 that says it's specifically formulated for diesels.

the car? it has 215k miles and runs just perfectly.

i change the oil now at 5 - 6k intervals. during that time i might have to add 1/2 pint - about half of the oil that's left after the 4.5 qt oil change.

never thought i could say this about a car, but man, this car is one of the best things that have happened in my life...

i keep it in very nice shape - the ladies in my life really like riding in it. cold air con, comfortable ride. the ladies like it because i get the great mileage - that means we can do a lot of driving and i still have some coin to treat!

I have a 2006 Jetta with 90,000 kms(about 60,000 mi.) I'm confused re timing belt replacement. My confusing manual says to replace @ 144,000kms and then again @ 160,000??? A vw dealer says it's due anytime. Who's right

So why did you dig up an oil change thread from 2002?

Have you checked in the A5 section? Here's a good place to start: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=175359

You'll also find this there: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=171926

Have a 13 sportwagen had the 30 day check up at dealer..Service manager said I should change the oil at 5000 because of water in bio diesel.Is this true?

Just his way of getting getting more $$$ out of your pocket ...

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

nuke77 said:

Have a 13 sportwagen had the 30 day check up at dealer..Service manager said I should change the oil at 5000 because of water in bio diesel.Is this true?

Click to expand...

Yes and no.

VW says that owners in Illinois who use biodiesel MAY see an increase in the oil level in their cars and if they do then they should change the oil more often.

You should have received a letter from VW concerning this issue. Someone posted it on these boards somewhere...

YMMV

nuke77 said:

Have a 13 sportwagen had the 30 day check up at dealer..Service manager said I should change the oil at 5000 because of water in bio diesel.Is this true?

Click to expand...

I suppose this service manager gives the same advice to all TDI owners. He probably has another line of reasoning that he uses with non-TDI owners, to get them to bring their VWs in for frequent oil changes.

Diesel in Illinois is mostly 11% biodiesel (B11), and there are reasons why maybe TDIs with diesel particulate filters should have more frequent oil changes. Every 10k miles is fine for most TDIs, but drivers in Illinois might consider reducing this to every 8k miles, just to be safe(r). Every 5k miles seems like overkill.

Remember, the VW warranty includes the first three oil changes for free. If you use these up at 5k, 10k, and 15k, then the dealership will have you in the short-OCI habit and will start making more money off of you, sooner.