TDI I acquired over the summer, repairs, repairs, now runaway. Just looking for input

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
I've read a bunch of runaway threads on here already, but I wanted to give the complete background of the vehicle I'm working on to get some 2nd or 3rd opinions of what I should do.

If you dont want to read my novel, skip down to the bold paragraph below :D

I picked up a 2002 TDI 5-Speed in August. The car came with full service records, timing belt, coolant temp sensor and a bunch of other stuff was done less than 10 months earlier and the car had been sitting for most of that time from what I gathered.

I purchased the car knowing it needed a radiator, battery and it had an exhaust leak. I didnt even drive it until I got it to work, rolled it off the trailer and dropped in the old battery from my 00 TDI. On my initial test drive, the car had absolutely NO power what so ever. It had torque, but it took forever even just to reach 25 mph, so the first thing I did was run a complete scan with VAGCOM but that turned up nothing. The only codes were in the airbag system for low voltage, probably due to the bad battery that was previously in the vehicle. No dash lights (other than low coolant), started fine, sounded good, but now power.

Before replacing the radiator, I did a little snooping around the EGR and Intake and found signs of a both of them being clogged. After pulling the EGR off, this is what I found....



The EGR and Intake were both about 70% clogged. I cleaned the EGR first, then worked on the intake, letting it sit overnight in a solvent bath. I also cleaned the EGR cooler and put everything back together with new gaskets and seals.



Next I pulled the radiator and replaced that with one I had from the '01 TDI I chopped up last year. Once that was done, I completely redid the brakes front and rear, then went for another test drive. The car did feel a little more powerful, but clearly lacked power still.

After doing some more searching and reading on here, it seemed the next logical thing to check was the actuator for the turbo. Sure enough, I couldn't get it to budge, neither by had or vacuum pump. I have a complete spare engine sitting on a stand, so I stole the actuator off of that and replaced it today. I also replaced the radiator again with a new unit after discovering a small fracture on the end tank.

I started the car and give it a small rev, I could actually hear the turbo spool now, first time since I got the car. Test drive proved that the actuator was the problem, car felt good :D

I basically drove the car around the parking lot, winding 1st gear out a bit, never getting past 2nd gear. I drove down, drove back, turned around again to do another lap, was shifting out of 1st and the engine ran away from me. I'm not really sure how long, it seemed like forever, but I'd estimate 5-10 seconds, I know I didnt have enough time to get out of the car and pop the hood (wasnt sure if the ASV was going to function or not).

There was some smoke, grey in color, it dissipated quickly but was rather stinky. I did not attempt to restart the car as I did not want it to happen again, I figured Id try again tomorrow so I could be under the hood if it did try to run away again.

Now, I plan on doing a compression test as soon as I can get my hands on a tester. I'm leaning towards the turbo seals being bad as the cause for the runaway? I will look for oil in the intake system tomorrow as well, but it just seemed like too much of a coincidence that it ran away finally after getting the turbo to operate correctly.

Am I overlooking any other causes for the runaway? Should I have cleaned more than just the intake, EGR and cooler?

Does anyone think the EGR could be bad too after seeing how clogged the intake was? I believe I have read topics on here on how to test the EGR, I have another one I can swap on there, but I'd like to test that one as well.

Thanks in advance for any help, thoughts or input on my little dilemma.
 
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Antsrcool

Vendor
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
MA Springfield
TDI
2010 Cup Edition
What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
makes sense, Ill pull the intercooler tomorrow since I still have the bumper off, but I'm just nervous about it happening again and I most certainly want to fix whatever the cause was/is.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
If I had a good camera, I could show you pictures of the pretzled rods on the one I pulled apart. Same story except the rotating assembly had frozen and a used turbo was installed but the intercooler wasn't cleaned.

Have you tried to start the engine yet? You may find really bad things going on. also, you could do a compression check to see how bad things are.
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
If I had a good camera, I could show you pictures of the pretzled rods on the one I pulled apart. Same story except the rotating assembly had frozen and a used turbo was installed but the intercooler wasn't cleaned.

Have you tried to start the engine yet? You may find really bad things going on. also, you could do a compression check to see how bad things are.
nope, I didn't want to start it without having someone else around because I want to be under the hood this time and I plan on doing a compression test as soon as I can get my hands on compression tester.

I'm probably not going to start it until i pull the intercooler and get anything else out that may be in there.

As worried (angry) as I am, i know the RPMs never reached redline and it wasn't totally screaming and i never heard anything bad during or when it finally shut down, so Im still hopeful. (crossing fingers)
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
The reason it ran away was the amount of air washed the oil into the cylinders. Starting and idling has very low airflow and it won't wash the oil in, but I understand your hesitation. Drain the intercooler then give it a shot.
 

deejaaa

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Location
Baytown, Texas
TDI
FOR SALE, 2002 Jetta GLS, 5 speed
so, the rpm's dropped off by themself? sounds like leftover oil in ic instead of seals.
 

powerfool

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Joined
May 25, 2012
Location
Indianapolis Metro Area
TDI
None anymore
Scary stuff... has me worried. I have had the hose from in between the upper IC pipe and the EGR off and found a small amount of oil in it, and cleaned it with clean shop paper towel. I also replaced my CCV breather and found a decent amount of oil inside the hose that goes to the intake, from it. That is likely the source of most of your oil... it has just been pooling since you have had low air flow... which is what I have now. I am looking to get one of those oil catchers for in between the breather and the intake. That should keep most of the oil out, assuming there isn't another leak (like in the turbo).
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
The reason it ran away was the amount of air washed the oil into the cylinders. Starting and idling has very low airflow and it won't wash the oil in, but I understand your hesitation. Drain the intercooler then give it a shot.
that was my general feeling as well, but... the oil did get there by some sort of means, i understand some oil or residue will be in there, but now after pulling the IC, Im starting to question stuff again. Right now i have the IC in a solvent bath, then im going to flush some degreaser through it, then water, then dry it.

so, the rpm's dropped off by themself? sounds like leftover oil in ic instead of seals.
Yup, they dropped off and slowed down till it stopped, within about 10 seconds.

Scary stuff... has me worried. I have had the hose from in between the upper IC pipe and the EGR off and found a small amount of oil in it, and cleaned it with clean shop paper towel. I also replaced my CCV breather and found a decent amount of oil inside the hose that goes to the intake, from it. That is likely the source of most of your oil... it has just been pooling since you have had low air flow... which is what I have now. I am looking to get one of those oil catchers for in between the breather and the intake. That should keep most of the oil out, assuming there isn't another leak (like in the turbo).
I had the CCV off when I did the intake cleaning, that didnt seem to have much oil in it (surprisingly), Im going to post some pictures of my findings and see what everyone thinks then.

Popped the lower clamp, I was expecting oil, but not Niagra Falls....



I ended up putting a catch pan under it but I couldnt get that pic to upload at work right now.

After I got the IC out of the car, I still managed to pour this much out without waiting for it to drip out...



All in all, Id say there was between a 1/4 and 1/2 Quart of oil in the IC.
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
What likely happened is the inter cooler was full of oil from an extended period of no boost. Now that you have everything working it ingested all of that dormant oil.
Wow, I am lucky. I was almost in the exact same situation after I bought my car. PeterV if you are reading this then thank you again, because I think that you saved my engine when you noticed my oily intercooler piping and said that we had to pull the intercooler while we were cleaning the intake manifold.

Mine had at least as much as yours does Captain. I think it was roughly half full of oil at the time.

I actually had the actuator on mine fixed first, but because of the clogged intake the car couldn't breath well enough to ingest the oil.
 

Jethro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Location
Los Alamos, NM
TDI
2003 Jetta 1.9
Holy crap! I thought I got a lot out of my IC on my first purchase, and that was a little over 1/4 cup.

The car did seem happier after I soaked the IC in simple green. Man the nasty sludge goo stuff that came out... yuck. I sure my IC is working a million times better now!

It's very likely that with this much oil in your IC, you've got a bad seal in the turbo feeding it. (My guess)
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2012 wagon CJAA; 2004 wagon BEW
I think most likely your engine is good based on how you describe the engine runaway. If I understand (and remember) correctly what I've read, if the turbo is not building boost, then the turbo seals are not really effective and tend to leak. Now if you extend that over a long time you will end up with a full of oil IC and we all know the rest of the story.

Good luck!
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Just to be certain pull the glow plugs and place shop rags by the holes , disconnect the fuel shutoff solenoid and crank the engine and see how much oil blows out of the cylinders, hopefully preventing a hydraulic if it hasn't happened yet. Then do your compression test.
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
thanks guys, I'm keeping myself optimistic on this. I figured if there is engine damage, that will give me an excuse to replace the clutch and just clean everything up in the engine bay, heh.

The IC itself seemed pretty clean, besides the oil itself. There was no chucky stuff or sludge in there, just oil itself, which seems to be coming out just fine.

Im going to hand crank the engine over completely before I attempt to fire it up again. My compression tester should be here around 2pm, so maybe Ill just want and see whats up with that before I do a full test fire.

according to AllData, they are saying the compression should be as follows:

Compression pressure New 25 to 31 bar Wear limit 19 bar Permissible diff. between cyl. 5 bar

Wear limit being the lowest and 1 bar = 14.7 PSI (if I remember correctly), then I should see no less than 280 PSI on any individual cylinder, and no more than 74 PSI difference between the highest and lowest cylinder.
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
Just to be certain pull the glow plugs and place shop rags by the holes , disconnect the fuel shutoff solenoid and crank the engine and see how much oil blows out of the cylinders, hopefully preventing a hydraulic if it hasn't happened yet. Then do your compression test.
thanks for the tip, Ill be sure to do that. I was planning on just pulling the 109 relay, unless disconnecting the harness at the injection pump would do the same thing so I dont have to pull the dash apart.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Yes it would and it's much easier, stares you in the face :)
 

Captain Morgan

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Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
pulled the glow plugs, disconnected the injection pump, held a rag over it, had the engine turned over, sounded smooth, only had a little oil come out of cylinder #2, everything else seemed dry.

My compression tester just showed up, ill start working on getting those numbers shortly.
 

Captain Morgan

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Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
got 400-425 across all cylinders. tossed the glow plugs back in, ill get back on it tomorrow and hopefully fire it up.
 

Antsrcool

Vendor
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
MA Springfield
TDI
2010 Cup Edition
I think it just took a little in And is probably fine. Chock this one up as a never forget incident. My bets are that the turbo is ok. Keep an eye on oil consumption but if it seems ok then it most likely is.
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
I made sure to check the shaft play while I have both the exhaust out of the car to patch the rust hole and while I had the intake side off when I pulled everything apart up there, the turbo spun freely and had no excessive play, so I dont think the turbo is the culprit here either, if anything Id sooner look at the CCV, but then again I didnt notice any excessive oil coming from that either when I pulled it.

Unfortunately, I do not know how long the car had been driven in its previous state, how long it sat or what if any "repairs" the previous owner did to try and fix the no power issue.

Nevertheless its my own fault for overlooking the IC and not checking it prior to or even right after cleaning the intake and EGR. Lesson learned, thankfully it doesn't seem to be a painful one.
 

Captain Morgan

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Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
well, the immobilizer was activated for some reason, so Ill have to bring my laptop to work tomorrow and get that off, but it does run for that split second or two. Sounds fine so far.
 

vwdieseling

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Apr 5, 2012
Location
Lima Ohio
TDI
Beetle, more bugs
It's is scary. I drained my IC this week and got about a cup full oil. All of it at the end of the coupler going in from the pancake pipe to intercooler. I am planning on replacing my actuator which should improve my boost. My actuator is working, but is sticking a little. I had visions of something catstrophic occuring if I didn't drain the IC and intercooler. If it didn't rev too high and only for 5 or 10 seconds you should be good as far as rods and bearings. The compression looks good at 400-425 across the bank. It seems funny the immo has immobilized the pump. Is it a pass key? Perhaps you can readopt it. Man I've had runaway fears on my mind for the past month regarding mine. Especially working with a turbo that has 190'000 miles on it as far as actuator replacement and IC hoses.
 
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whitedog

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Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
It may not be the actuator that's sticking, but rather the turbo vanes are sticking. Once you get the actuator unbolted, you will be able to move the lever and tell if the turbo needs to be cleaned.
 

vwdieseling

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Location
Lima Ohio
TDI
Beetle, more bugs
It may not be the actuator that's sticking, but rather the turbo vanes are sticking. Once you get the actuator unbolted, you will be able to move the lever and tell if the turbo needs to be cleaned.
I sprayed some PB Blaster on the linkage and rod coming out of the modulator and loosened it up. I still have boost and no codes. I am able to manually move the turbo linkage so the vanes are free. The turbo probably is coked up pretty bad internally though.
 

Captain Morgan

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Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
well, I still cant get it to start. I have VAGCOM hooked up, its showing the 19978 / P1570 - Engine Start Blocked by Immoblizier - P1570 - 35-00 -

I clear it out.... it comes back, clear it out, it comes back... I've never had this happen before, any thoughts???
 

blackty

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Joined
Jan 29, 2012
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Bangor, Pa
TDI
2000 Jetta tdi (sold)--2005 Jetta 2.5 Tiptronic---1993 GMC Typhoon---2003 2500HD Silverado---2012 WRX Wagon
Will discconnecting the battery for a few minutes clear them?..Jim
 

PondRacer

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Location
Provo UT
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Question related to this:

If you forgot code for the stock radio, will that immobilizer lock the car because of that?

PondRacer
 

Captain Morgan

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Location
08050, NJ
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
Will discconnecting the battery for a few minutes clear them?..Jim
Highly unlikely, its an OBD II car, so i dont see why it would. The code doesnt even show up on my snap-on scanner or my small hand held scanner, just mg laptop through VAGCOM, Nd it does allow me to clear it, but the code returns instantly.

Hate to say it, but after all this, i might be forced to part it out now :(
 
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