16 or 17 inch wheels?

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Is there any compelling reason to pay the extra money for 17" wheels? My dealer found a car for me, but it has 17's on it. He did offer to swap them with 16's if I desire. Are they any heavier, and thus affect mileage? Also, if they do so, will the speedo/odo still read correctly or does it have to be adjusted for the size difference? I'm more concerned about economy than pimping my ride.
 

MileageDude

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
original quote by: Thunderstruck
Is there any compelling reason to pay the extra money for 17" wheels?
If a dealer locates a vehicle for you... and it's not 100% to your specifications ...it's not up to you to cough up extra cash for rims that are PLUS SIZED. I hope you're not paying extra for those rims if you decide to buy the car?

original quote by: Thunderstruck
...Are they any heavier, and thus affect mileage? Also, if they do so, will the speedo/odo still read correctly or does it have to be adjusted for the size difference? I'm more concerned about economy than pimping my ride.
We don't know the brand, but do a forum search, a member has posted almost every brand out there on a private website.

Lastly, the 6.5 or 7.0 wide 16" inch rims roll out of radius of the 15 or 17 inch rims. The 195/65-15 tire and rim almost roll identical to that of the 225/45-17. Not the case with the 205/55-16. The 205/55-16 roll taller.

Lastly, 17" rims ...a diesel ...fuel mileage?

Dunno. I always thought the 15 and 16 inch rims were the best performance and handling rim/tire combo made unless you need huge brakes and need the rotor/caliper clearences?

Other than that, for looks ...by all means go 17. But at least imform us all the model of rim.

M.D.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
These would be whatever comes stock on a Passat from VW. It looks the factory must have built most or all GLS Passat sedans with 17 inch rims. They are an extra cost option, although I might be able to bluff him into including them at either reduced cost or free. Dealer cost is $350. But mileage is marginal relative to what I have now anyway, so if VW 17 rims cost me a few MPG's, I'm not buying.
 

leobg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
passat 2004 black
225x45R17 has exactly tha same rolling diametter as 195x65R15. You do not need any sort of adjustment.
17" give harsher ride, but much sharper look and better handling. Lot of people here on the forum say 17-s do not affect their mileage or there is minimal effect (1-2 mpg). 16's are good compromise between look and ride.
My 04 has 15-s. I'd love to have 16 or 17s but that was not even an option when I got my car.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
So with the kinds of tire pressures we run (10% under max on sidewall) they'd be harsher than 16? In a car that only gets 27 city, 1-2 is a significant hit. I'm not going to go whipping around off ramps anyway, so don't need handling. Unless he gives them to me, I'll opt for 16". (Which he may. I haven't told him yet they are going to move my Phatbox from old car.)
 

leobg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Location
Toronto, ON
TDI
passat 2004 black
16" gives nice look and as just as smooth ride as 15-s.
I think 16 is just the right size for B5.5
Good choice - go ahead!
 

AutoIgnorant

New member
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
How about 18 inch x 7.5 AZEV rims? My 2004 Passat TDI wagon looks awesome with these weels fitted with low prof Yokahamas and handles like it's on rails. Beware however... not only is this rather expensive bling for a GLS passat but these wide weels extend far enough past the wheel wells that the side pannels will see a few rock chips despite standard mud guards.
 

Alchemy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2000
Location
N/A
TDI
None thanks to dieselgate
If you found a car with the 17's and really like the 16's I'll trade you plus some cash. I have the 16" Road Americas that were standard on my 05 and have about 5k miles on them (I run winter tires from December through April).

PM me if you are interested, as I would love the 17's.

Steve
 

houstondriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Passat 05 TDI
I found that virtually all the 05 Passat TDI's with leather came with the 17's as well. I like the 16's myself for the ride, but the 17's look much better. Assuming that you do get the same mileage with the 17's, they need to be replaced more often and cost more when doing so, which is probably a more tangible cost to factor in. I'm amazed that people are able to get similar mileage in both. I don't know if the 17's weigh more, but they have more rolling resistance which likely affects mileage. The tradeoff, however, is better handling.

I doubt the dealer would give them to you for free. If you've already negotiated a price I doubt they would do anything more than meet you halfway, if that. Since they have already offered to swap, I wouldn't expect anything in the way of concessions since they have given you an option to get your preference.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Except he has to pay the mechanics the flat rate to swap tires, which he said was $120. The dealer might not give them free, but if the salesman wants to make money he has to sell. All of a sudden I think my trade in is going to be worth $350 more.
 

houstondriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Passat 05 TDI
I wouldn't pay any attention to this supposed $120 fee. If you both agree to delete an option, it is up to the dealer to get it done. If he wants to stick you with that fee, well, then I'd try to negotiate the 17's since its not really a swap or option delete he is offering you.

Yeah, your trade-in could be adjusted to make up the difference, but if he's offering to swap he has pretty much given you the resolution already. I don't see any reason why he would negotiate the 17's with you after that. That was his whole point of offering the swap, to indicate you aren't getting the 17's if you don't pay for them and the wheels will not be a sticking point in the transation.

If he does the swap, I'd expect a full delete of the $400 MSRP for the wheels, or the $350 dealer cost if you have the total cost down somewhere near invoice. Swaping the wheels has to be one of the easiest swaps that can be done. Also, make sure they swap the spare as well since I believe they are different.
 

days-like-this

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Location
Park City, Utah
TDI
future A3 TDI-er
Consider this: MOST people with other cars right now are getting 17's...nearly every new Audi comes with 17's. My 04 had 15's on it and I opted for the 17's on my 05. It would be easier to get the 17's that come with the car (as the springs might be different from the factory as well) and then sell/trade them to Alchemy
. Seriously, there are TONS of people that would buy those 17's from you. Also, they are wrapped in Michelins. $350 upgrade for 17's is SUPER CHEAP. Consider the cost of that alloy rim and then the (4) Michelins...it's probably a $1000 upgrade in itself for only $350.
Finally, kudos to VW for finally giving us wheel size choices
They've come a long way!!!
 

MileageDude

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
original quote by:Thunderstruck
So with the kinds of tire pressures we run (10% under max on sidewall) they'd be harsher than 16?
The Passat is a heavier car than the Jetta/Golf and Beetle. The wheel base is longer on the Passat too. That translates into a much smoother ride from these advantage points on weight and wheel base.

You may transmit more road noise and more harshness from a lower profile tire 225/45-17 vs 205/55-16 ...but it will not transmit as much as found in the MKIV versions.

A 17 x 7.5 rim and a 225/45-17 tire vs a 16 x 6.5 rim and a 205/55-16 tire are huge in some small comparisons. The 205/55-16 tire has about 1/2 inch more side wall [4.4in] v [4.0in]. This translates into a more forgiving first contact shock absorbtion rate with road imperfections. Think of the 205/55-16 as an added buffer between you and the pavement while driving. Shocks will work less hard and unsprung weight of a lighter sized rim and tire combo [16"] will give comfort.

original quote by:Thunderstruck
In a car that only gets 27 city, 1-2 is a significant hit. I'm not going to go whipping around off ramps anyway, so don't need handling. we run (10% under max on sidewall) they'd be harsher than 16?
With a 17 x 7.5 rim you will have more weight obviously then a 16, but you will also have width and more road resistance on the bigger rim too. City mileage will perhaps be affected somewhat because of the rolling mass to accelerate on a heavier wheel/tire combo.

Other members brought up some excellent points. Replacement costs are very high on 225/45-17 tires. You can forget about putting snow tires on 17" rims. Tall and Thin is best for snow. A 225/45-17 tire in snow is like a sled. Factor in other rims/tires for winter driving.

Lastly, curbage and bad roads kill 17" rims that run a low profile tire. With only 4" of sidewall and the road quality in your parts ...I'd take the added sidewall height of 4.4" on the 205/55-16 in a blink. Especially in a heavier sedan.

M.D.
 

SpamJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Location
Cable, MN
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2002 Silver
Take it out for a test drive, run the trip computer, see what kind of mileage the trip computer says. I ran a Passat GL down to Minneapolis on a dealer trade, ran a Passat GLS Wagon back, the mileage computer gave me a difference of 5 MPG. Now I know the wind could have been behind me on the way down, different fuel etc. But I think you'll take mileage hit. If he has another Passat TDI with 16's on the lot. Take 'em both out and compare.
 

CaptTDI

Active member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, black/anthracite
I've got the 17's. I think you'll like the ride of the 16's better. It's just what came on mine. I didn't think about asking the dealer to swap them.
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
I can see if they even have one with 16's to try the fuel economy test Spam is talking about. Having already killed one tire on my current ride (ouch, $150 to replace), I'll either get 16 on it, or sell them for a 16 inch set.
 

LightningTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Location
GA (Atlanta)
TDI
'05 United Grey Passat TDI Wagon with Grey Leather; '05 Golf, 5-speed automatic TDI; '04 Beetle 5M TDI; '02 Beetle auto TDI
I drove Passat's with the 16's and 17's and preferred the ride of the 16's. Also, future tire costs will be lower with the 16's.
 

Tom52

Active member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
TDI
2005 VW Passat - United Gray
my new Passat sedan has the 17" wheels and I think they look really good compared to the std. 16" wheels. I did not notice hardly any difference in ride quality. I have about 1300 miles on the car and the average fuel consumption since new is 39.4 with about 75% highway 25% city. Last weekend a 245 mile trip was 44.3 average according to MFA. Since the car is rated at 37 or 38 highway, I don't see where the 17" wheels are hurting me much.
 

tdisedanman

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
So Florida
TDI
Ex 2005 Passat, TDI and ex 2005.5 Jetta TDI
I drove the 05 Passat with the 16" and 17" wheels. I liked the ride better with the 16's. The ride is softer, more sedan like while the 17"s offered better cornering due to decreased side wall size while slightly more road feel.I liked the smoother ride and took the 16's. They will also be cheaper to replace. Either way, a great car.
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
I have the 17" on my both of the 05 Passats. I chose this option with the vehicles since it increased handling greatly. I prefer a vehicle to stick to the road, versus a cooshy, mushy soft ride.

The issue is whether or not you want low-profile, road holding, great looking tires and rims or the standard GLS or GL rims.

This belief that 17" are going to wear out sooner is crazy. The tread depth is deeper than the standard tires. Unless someone has researched the tire compounds, this general statement is wrong.

Yes they will cost more to replace since they are not a common place size. So if you buy your tires at Costco or Walmart then you may have an issue, otherwise they are available.
 

houstondriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Passat 05 TDI
This belief that 17" are going to wear out sooner is crazy. The tread depth is deeper than the standard tires. Unless someone has researched the tire compounds, this general statement is wrong.
Actually, it is not wrong. Its a matter of physics, and the tires are generally designed that way.

The very fact that the 17's are more road holding than the 16's is the reason. The lower profile and higher pressure in the tires puts greater stress on them, creating the better gripping effect. That effect is gained by stronger friction with the road, which is achieved by wearing down the tires faster. The fact that the 17's have more surface area on the road also leads to faster wear since there is less weight per square inch than with the 16's. In order to compensate for this the rubber must wear faster by being softer, otherwise you will slide more than the 16's. I'm talking dry roads here, not wet.

The softer, less pressurized 16's create less friction since they "give" more, and thus wear less and slower. They also generally have harder rubber and longer treadlife ratings. They also don't provide the level of handling the 17's do.

When you turn a corner in the 17's it feels stiffer, and puts much more stress on the the sidewalls and the tread grips better, and wears faster. Just like sanding off paint. You will get faster results by sanding with a wood block as a base than a sponge.
 

tdisedanman

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
So Florida
TDI
Ex 2005 Passat, TDI and ex 2005.5 Jetta TDI
I Believe lower pro tires with smaller sidewalls do in fact wear faster. This may not be as apparent on some brands and profiles as on others. Yes , the compound of the rubber also makes a difference. Just my two cents.
 

F1Rocks

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Location
Maple Grove, MN
TDI
2005 Passat Black/Anthracite
Drven the exact same way....I disagree with the belief that higher pressure in the tire and more surface area are going to cause greater wear. The real physics of this is...you have a 3000+ pound car being distributed over a specified cross section or contact patch with the road. Gravity doesn't pull the 17" equipped car any harder than the 16" car. And if the contact patch was larger on the 17" tire, the tire is working less, hence less wear because it is spread out over the larger contact patch. If this were true, the 15" cars should have tires that last 100,000 miles. Hey lets put 14" tires on and go 200,000 miles.

That being said, the rubber compounds will be entirely different and that is where the wear characteristics will be determined. Look at the wear rating on the sidewall of the tire. They may be numberically different and will give a better indicator of wear.

You can get 16" tires to handle just as well as 17" tires, it depends on what rubber you buy.

What is probably more true is that the 17" drivers are cornering at a higher rate of speed with all that added cornering capability, dang I wish I would have held out for the 17's
 

houstondriver

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
Passat 05 TDI
Drven the exact same way....I disagree with the belief that higher pressure in the tire and more surface area are going to cause greater wear. The real physics of this is...you have a 3000+ pound car being distributed over a specified cross section or contact patch with the road. Gravity doesn't pull the 17" equipped car any harder than the 16" car. And if the contact patch was larger on the 17" tire, the tire is working less, hence less wear because it is spread out over the larger contact patch. If this were true, the 15" cars should have tires that last 100,000 miles. Hey lets put 14" tires on and go 200,000 miles.
We aren't talking gravity here but rather force. A stiffer sidewall, higher pressurized tire puts more force on the treads and the contact patch. Every bump and turn create additional stress and force on the tire.

It actually is true that a narrower tire with a taller sidewall does last longer. You don't get 80K mile guarantees on a performance tire, only standard passenger tires.

The rubber compound will make a difference, so comparing the 16 and 17 inch tires on the Passats may be comparing apples to oranges. But given the same tire in the two sizes, the wider 17" would wear faster.

Most people on the board have reported that their 17's wear faster than the 16's. That is good enough for me
 

Thunderstruck

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Chicago
TDI
2015 GTI SE 6M
Just called dealer-dramatic difference in price to replace tires. 16" Michelin are $150, 17 are 210. Goodyear 16 are 100, 17 are 170.
Given the feedback from everyone (much appreciated, thanks to all), I've concluded 16 is what I want. If they don't want to swap them, they will be traded for 16". I'm not about style, I'm about cost effectiveness.
Feel free to keep the thread alive as I am learning new things every day!
 

ALCO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2002
Location
Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
TDI
1999 A3 Jetta, silver/2005 B5 Passat, silver
My first post to the B5 forum...woohoo! I feel like a Newbie. I think I need, must have, severely desire and will not feel complete until I have these:



From my research, I think they are 16" stock alloys off the '03 and '04 GLX called, "Vancouvers". Yeah, I know tomo...

Edit: Oops...it's actually not my first post. I was stealthing around here a couple of times before.
 

hsjrev

New member
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Location
memphis, TN
TDI
'05 Passat wagon
Our new GLS wagon came with the 17's and I think it rides fine with very little road noise, but then I'm used to my '91 Miata with Koni sport shocks set on firm. As far as pricier 17" tires, there are better tires than the Michelins for much less $$. Sears has the Falken ZE-512 in 225/45/17 for $113.99 each. It was Consumer Reports' top pick among performance all-season tires (Oct '04). If you don't need all season tires and want more dry grip, Tire Rack has the Dunlop SP sport FM 901's for $86.
 
Top