Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

CV-GSW · Jul 21, 2016

copperbeech said:
That is me for our 2015 Golf Sportwagen + we spent about $1200 on a 10 year warranty. I guess we lose out on that as well .

I briefly spoke to my local dealership business office manager here in BC and he said owners "should" be compensated for purchased extended warranty.

CV-GSW · Jul 21, 2016

Bahamut said:
The main reason I'm upset is that it has impacted me financially: the vehicle is worth less than it was previously. Yes, that financial loss isn't realized unless I sell the vehicle, but there IS an increased risk of financial loss if the vehicle is written off. I didn't ask for that risk to be increased: that risk was put on me due to the crummy decisions of whoever was involved in this scandal.

Exactly how I feel

tobianogreg · Jul 21, 2016

I'm told by our local MP's office that we should be able to recover federal taxes when returning a vehicle to VW.

Bahamut · Jul 21, 2016

tobianogreg said:
I'm told by our local MP's office that we should be able to recover federal taxes when returning a vehicle to VW.

I should stop reading into this statement as though it is a confirmation that there will be a buyback deal

.

However, that is good news: I'm guessing that a buyback deal here would include a buyback amount + federal tax, or perhaps there would be a separate claims process for tax recovery.

Either way, its something to keep an eye on and make sure that it is addressed.

tobianogreg · Jul 21, 2016

The way I understand it, the various "fixes" are only available in order to placate those owners in CARB states who do not wish to return their vehicles. They don't resolve the Nox issue completely so forcing Canadians into a fix-only scenario won't fly.

Zunee · Jul 22, 2016

A write-up today from driving.ca:

http://driving.ca/volkswagen/auto-n...i-diesel-settlement-how-it-impacts-car-owners

Zunee · Jul 22, 2016

I was torn at the beginning, love the car and the way it drives. I bought a TDI for fuel economy, while still having some torque and handling (something rare if not impossible to find at the time). Now, with the details of the scandal being more exposed, I'm confident I'll return mine if we are offered something similar to the US. I sure hope we don't get screwed over.

CV-GSW · Jul 22, 2016

Zunee said:
A write-up today from driving.ca:

http://driving.ca/volkswagen/auto-n...i-diesel-settlement-how-it-impacts-car-owners

I JUST read this too. Wow.

GigaFire · Jul 22, 2016

At the rate things are going, I'm seriously considering loan forgiveness on my 2012 and cutting my losses on something older, and slightly more lively. Maybe something RHD. The car is awesome, but if support drops off at the dealer level, that may cause a bit of concern with long-term ownership.

Bahamut · Jul 22, 2016

News on VW vehicle fix

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...-fix-emissions-cheating-cars-say-dealers.html

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this proposal gets shot down as well, just like the proposed 3.0 fix that was put forward recently.

Ursadorable · Jul 22, 2016

Zunee said:
http://driving.ca/volkswagen/auto-n...i-diesel-settlement-how-it-impacts-car-owners

Unfortunately nothing new here just more banter about the US progress, nothing really about Canada. Until the 29th, we won't know for sure if we're getting satisfaction, or getting screwed.

BigWorm · Jul 22, 2016

They aren't touching my passat until they put a check in my hand or buy it back! What gen is a 2012 tdi passat??? Plz n thx

Bahamut · Jul 22, 2016

BigWorm said:
They aren't touching my passat until they put a check in my hand or buy it back! What gen is a 2012 tdi passat??? Plz n thx

I believe the Passat is Gen 2: it has an AdBlue system. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think the Gen 1 vehicles have an AdBlue system at all.

BigWorm · Jul 22, 2016

^ thank you brotha, much respect. Yeah it's got add blue.

haunruh · Jul 23, 2016

Interesting article ...

http://www.chicoer.com/business/2016...ting-fix-ready

Might not be a buyback after all??

Rob_MacCara · Jul 23, 2016

http://www.chicoer.com/business/20160722/apnewsbreak-volkswagen-has-emissions-cheating-fix-ready
Your link was broken...

Rob_MacCara · Jul 23, 2016

I'd have no problem keeping my car as is. If they give me money no strings attached, I'd be happy taking that, too. Replacing my tune with 'fixed' software, and modifying my Buzzken exhaust - not so happy with that.

tobianogreg · Jul 23, 2016

Take their money and refix it?

Scratchy101 · Jul 23, 2016

Subscribed....

BTW, I just did the calculation, and per-capita there are twice as many TDIs sold in Canada than the US.
US = .15% of population owns a 2.0 CR TDI
CAN = .30% of population owns a 2.0 CR TDI

So technically we have more to lose than the US!

Bahamut · Jul 23, 2016

haunruh said:
Interesting article ...

http://www.chicoer.com/business/2016...ting-fix-ready

Might not be a buyback after all??

Sounds like a fix is possible: the main question is whether or not this is just a rehash of the already-proposed fix that was put down earlier in the year by the EPA/CARB due to a lack of information on the part of VW and/or unsatisfactory information regarding effects on vehicles and long-term longevity.

I read somewhere else that this announcement might have had more to do with keeping dealers happy rather than anything substantive in regards to actually fixing vehicles.

I seriously doubt that they will get this fix ready and approved in time to settle matters here: that being said, if we get a fix forced on us without the option for a buyback (aka a deal similar to that in the U.S.) then we should definitely be letting our displeasure be known. It would also mean that I would NEVER buy another VW due to the lack of respect that such a decision would show towards Canadian owners.

Thought I would add this link to a Reddit discussion about this topic: some of the opinions are quite interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tdi/commen...ssions_fix_ready_for/?st=ir02v6ad&sh=cd68a64b

Bahamut · Jul 23, 2016

Scratchy101 said:
Subscribed....

BTW, I just did the calculation, and per-capita there are twice as many TDIs sold in Canada than the US.
US = .15% of population owns a 2.0 CR TDI
CAN = .30% of population owns a 2.0 CR TDI

So technically we have more to lose than the US!

To put it another way, VW has more to lose here than in the U.S.! It really is interesting that we have twice the rate of purchase of TDIs compared to the U.S.: they should definitely be taking care of Canadians as well.

Mike_04GolfTDI · Jul 23, 2016

Bahamut said:
I seriously doubt that they will get this fix ready and approved in time to settle matters here: that being said, if we get a fix forced on us without the option for a buyback (aka a deal similar to that in the U.S.) then we should definitely be letting our displeasure be known. It would also mean that I would NEVER buy another VW due to the lack of respect that such a decision would show towards Canadian owners.

The decision you are referring to is the judge's decision, not VW's.

VW's decision was to lie and cheat, and their decision on the matter would be to do nothing about it. They'd still be doing it if they weren't caught.

If they don't offer to buy your car back, that'll be because the court didn't order them to. You should blame the judge.

It's the same in the USA. VW didn't decide to buy back the cars. They were ordered to. They aren't doing it because they care about the customers. The judge cared about the customers.

Consumer protection laws in Canada are weak. The judge may have no legal basis to order a buyback if a fix is enough to make the customer whole. We don't have a "lemon law" like the USA, where they have to buy a car back if they can't fix it after a certain amount of time, or however it works.

VW will tell the Canadian judge that they have a fix, the car can be made compliant and the customer will have what they paid for. No judge in Canada is going to force them to do more than that. Can't see it, sorry to say.

sorethumb · Jul 24, 2016

I have a 2013 diesel passat that i bought in november of that year brand new. so I had less than 2 years of service with it before the scandal broke out. Because of life style changes I wanted to buy another vehicle type. Car was listed at $34,500 with the tech package/comfort line. Early spring this year I was offered the best trade in of $16,000 wholesale price. I also tried to sell it on my own and gave up as nobody wanted to buy it.

VW has me prisoner with this car and I would lose a great deal amount of money. I bought into like everyone else a high resale value on the diesels. I am not flush with money so I just can not nor will not be taken to the cleaners on VW's illegal and deceitful actions.

I believe that like the USA we will have a parallel settlement. Its in the best interests of VW and we have class action lawyers here in Canada chewing on their butts to Force them to do so as a bit of extra insurance. VW has also said that this will happen to the customers here in Canada.

I am at the end of a timeline for all this to happen to make right to me what VW has criminally done to me and others. I need to liquidate this car and my patience is near end. I am and have been closely following all events related to my diesel car and VW buyout options so I am trying to be as rational as I can knowing that this scandal does not revolve just around me because of their criminal actions.

If this Canadian VW scandle drags on past the USA settlement conditions I will try to accelerate my buyout and grab attention to future VW customers here in Sarnia Ontario the Criminal actions and Contempt that VW has for customers.

I am going to wash my beautiful white Diesel Passat and will be writing in BLACK water paints all kinds of truthful derogatory words all over my car aimed at VW. I am then going to parade my car around the Sarnia VW dealership, business centres, the many dealerships around VW dealership and main streets to draw attention. For everday that VW screws me around I will parade my car around over,over and over again day after day. I will of course be giving the VW dealership my contact numbers and advance heads up to my actions should they want to call me. Being retired I certainly have the time to do this. I have checked with our city police and they have said that I have the right to free expression. Just do not put anything threatening in my wording.

I do not believe that it will come to this but i will not allow VW to criminally screw me over thousands of dollars and hold me hostage because i can not sell my car at a fair market value. I do not want to take an extreme financial bath. I will not remain passive, take it up the butt and do nothing when i can do something at the right time. If i can sway future customers from buying a VW then I can say since VW you scammed me over thousands of dollars, I got justice because I swayed many potential buyers from buying from you VW and that cost you thousands and thousands of dollars. Sarnia is a very small city and the impact will be awesome to get Canada Corporate VW's attention. Wishing us all diesel owners the best in our favour upcoming...Cheers

Bahamut · Jul 24, 2016

sorethumb said:
I have a 2013 diesel passat that i bought in november of that year brand new. so I had less than 2 years of service with it before the scandal broke out. Because of life style changes I wanted to buy another vehicle type. Car was listed at $34,500 with the tech package/comfort line. Early spring this year I was offered the best trade in of $16,000 wholesale price. I also tried to sell it on my own and gave up as nobody wanted to buy it.

VW has me prisoner with this car and I would lose a great deal amount of money. I bought into like everyone else a high resale value on the diesels. I am not flush with money so I just can not nor will not be taken to the cleaners on VW's illegal and deceitful actions.

I believe that like the USA we will have a parallel settlement. Its in the best interests of VW and we have class action lawyers here in Canada chewing on their butts to Force them to do so as a bit of extra insurance. VW has also said that this will happen to the customers here in Canada.

I am at the end of a timeline for all this to happen to make right to me what VW has criminally done to me and others. I need to liquidate this car and my patience is near end. I am and have been closely following all events related to my diesel car and VW buyout options so I am trying to be as rational as I can knowing that this scandal does not revolve just around me because of their criminal actions.

If this Canadian VW scandle drags on past the USA settlement conditions I will try to accelerate my buyout and grab attention to future VW customers here in Sarnia Ontario the Criminal actions and Contempt that VW has for customers.

I am going to wash my beautiful white Diesel Passat and will be writing in BLACK water paints all kinds of truthful derogatory words all over my car aimed at VW. I am then going to parade my car around the Sarnia VW dealership, business centres, the many dealerships around VW dealership and main streets to draw attention. For everday that VW screws me around I will parade my car around over,over and over again day after day. I will of course be giving the VW dealership my contact numbers and advance heads up to my actions should they want to call me. Being retired I certainly have the time to do this. I have checked with our city police and they have said that I have the right to free expression. Just do not put anything threatening in my wording.

I do not believe that it will come to this but i will not allow VW to criminally screw me over thousands of dollars and hold me hostage because i can not sell my car at a fair market value. I do not want to take an extreme financial bath. I will not remain passive, take it up the butt and do nothing when i can do something at the right time. If i can sway future customers from buying a VW then I can say since VW you scammed me over thousands of dollars, I got justice because I swayed many potential buyers from buying from you VW and that cost you thousands and thousands of dollars. Sarnia is a very small city and the impact will be awesome to get Canada Corporate VW's attention. Wishing us all diesel owners the best in our favour upcoming...Cheers

I once knew a guy who did something similar to this, but on a smaller scale: he had a Corvette which turned out to be a complete lemon. He put a magnetic sign on each side of the car, which was a huge yellow lemon, and then parked it at the dealership whenever it had to be dropped off for service. It did get some attention: you couldn't miss it whenever you drove by the dealership.

Our consumer laws are weak, as mentioned in an earlier post, and we have very little recourse if VW ultimately only offers a fix here. While they will probably be very smug about avoiding the cost of a buyback, they're going to upset a lot of people: actions like this might be one of the few ways that we could exert any pressure on them to create a more favourable compensation package.

Bahamut · Jul 24, 2016

Mike_04GolfTDI said:
The decision you are referring to is the judge's decision, not VW's.

VW's decision was to lie and cheat, and their decision on the matter would be to do nothing about it. They'd still be doing it if they weren't caught.

If they don't offer to buy your car back, that'll be because the court didn't order them to. You should blame the judge.

It's the same in the USA. VW didn't decide to buy back the cars. They were ordered to. They aren't doing it because they care about the customers. The judge cared about the customers.

Consumer protection laws in Canada are weak. The judge may have no legal basis to order a buyback if a fix is enough to make the customer whole. We don't have a "lemon law" like the USA, where they have to buy a car back if they can't fix it after a certain amount of time, or however it works.

VW will tell the Canadian judge that they have a fix, the car can be made compliant and the customer will have what they paid for. No judge in Canada is going to force them to do more than that. Can't see it, sorry to say.

I agree with you, and thanks for the clarification on the "decision" aspect: you are of course correct that it is the judge's decision as to what happens here ultimately and not VW's. VW will definitely try to take the cheapest route possible. I'm hoping that the proposed class action has enough bite to force a buyback, but based on the weaker laws here, it may or may not.

It could become VW's decision to offer a buyback if they were to honor the statement made in April that any settlement in the U.S. would be mirrored in Canada. They have to understand that doing the bare minimum in this case, i.e. showing the judge that they have a fix ready (which they do not yet, as it hasn't been approved) and giving owners a few dollars each for their troubles, is not enough to correct the situation. This is a time for going above-and-beyond in order to keep customers happy. However, given their track record lately, they may just, as you said, do exactly as the court requires and nothing more in order to preserve their bottom line.

One question though: I'm curious how many people would actually take the fix if offered here, as there is a lot of mistrust around VW at the moment.

Rob_MacCara · Jul 24, 2016

I would definitely Not take a fix - my car now has much improved mileage, more fun to drive, lots more torque, and I've reduced the risk of large repairs down the road. Why would I allow VW to reverse all that??

tobianogreg · Jul 24, 2016

Re Canadian Lemon Laws:

Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan

tobianogreg · Jul 24, 2016

Rob_MacCara said:
I would definitely Not take a fix - my car now has much improved mileage, more fun to drive, lots more torque, and I've reduced the risk of large repairs down the road. Why would I allow VW to reverse all that??

Only if you could put a few $ in your pocket.

Bahamut · Jul 24, 2016

One of the common approaches to the potential fix is to say "I will just get a tune to undo the fix". In researching my next car, I've been researching into rules around modifications/tuning to vehicles in Canada (specifically Ontario), and there are a LOT of insurance company-specific issues. If the vehicle is modified in any way from factory specs, e.g. CAI, aftermarket turbo, exhaust, and the changes are not disclosed to the insurance company, your coverage can be dropped.

The guidelines are different from company to company, but still a concern. Now, detecting an ECU update, i.e. a Malone tune, would be very difficult but probably could be done if the insurance company wanted to badly enough. This potential issue would make it even less likely for a fix to be acceptable.

Maybe someone with a tune could jump in regarding the insurance coverage aspect?

iantryinit · Jul 24, 2016

I personally am hoping for a buyout because my 2013 Passat is at 65,000km overdue for DSG service and running out of warranty. Even if no scandal I would be looking to trade this car in soon as I work out of town lots and need a "reliable" car on warranty for the wife because she drives Hwy daily. Waiting on the news that's forsure.

Dieselgate, The Canadian Edition

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