Misfire running on 3 cylinders

I would like to see what the rest of that piston looks like. Looks like you have a pit on the bottom outer edge (this is where your head gasket was leaking) which might be much worse down the side of the piston. It definitely looks like a bad head gasket at least started your problems.

What is interesting is that my number 4 cylinder was the one that failed and the other people who have had head gasket issues with the bhw...that I have read about...also had their head gasket fail in the number 4 cylinder. Interesting trend.

Have you had a chance to look over the cylinder head? There will be some valves open as long as you have the cam in there by the way.

Well Thunder nailed it, anything off the top shelf, Jameson only .

Have to try and keep a sense of humor with this. Yep the head has some pitting on that cylinder. Interesting observation on the #4 cylinder as regards the head gasket leaking.



[URL=http://s285.photobucket.com/user/mcglock910/media/image_zps9a94bd1c.jpg.html]

Whats this worth with a diagnosis like this. It has the Balance shaft done new cam around 175k. Stage 2 rocketchip. Timing belt water pump etc at 212k. Jason did a lot of earlier work.

It almost looks like you have a crack between the exhaust valve and the injector nozzle...it may well not be the case but it sure looks like it.

As far as value...fair market value with everything accounted for, minus the cost for parts and labor on the repairs needed. Might just need a refreshed head and a piston but it also might need a lot more. If the head *IS* warped what did that do to your new cam??? There are a lot of things to consider with your situation.

That piston has foreign object damage on it too, as well as the head.. All those little dings and dents are from something getting in there.. It probably didn't have anything to do with the cracked piston, but something was bouncing around in there for a few seconds..


If you feel like you're in over your head with putting a piston(s) in it, I do have a truck and trailer LOL...

There's a chunk missing from that cracked piston, right above the ring, visible in one of the photos. That's probably what caused the dings.

I think its engine time...short block from vw is about 2500 and a recon head, or here is one not too far away

http://www.copart.com/c2/homeSearch...e2s1&lotId=17240473&returnPage=SEARCH_RESULTS

I never had good things happen replacing just one piston and when you see what 4 pistons cost, you.ve bought a short block. I kind of figured you might encounter something major, and I think it takes less time to pull eng/trans than pulling the head. it might be worth looking over the copart car as its not badly toasted, so you might be able to hear it run. A couple grand and you'll have lots of extra parts.

a better one but you'll need it hauled to you

http://www.copart.com/c2/homeSearch...e2s1&lotId=16901863&returnPage=SEARCH_RESULTS

You can rebuild the engine for what you would pay for shipping and feels alone on that car.

I was just foin back to when I had broken glow plug issue and couldn't recall if it was in #3 or #4.

Well guess what it was #4?
So that may explain some of the pitting on cylinder and head if the tip had fallen of and got
Pulverized and blown out your ear.


So that would lead me to believe that the pitting may be old. Not saying it didn't weaken the piston but look at the date on this.
Jason PM me with your number until we see whats the best way to go with this .

I would look for a used short block or long block if you find one and have your preferred mechanic go through it. I saw a bhw short block on ebay selling for 800...This is just a reference for price. If your block is still usable, I have seen two bhw cylinder heads recently here on the boards selling for 400 ish obo so you could get this thing fixed at a cost which makes keeping the car worth it. If funds permit, you might think about swapping in a 5 speed manual as well.

There's nothing wrong with the cylinder head.. They almost all have small cracks between the glow plug hole and one of the valve seats.. It's non-critical..

If the #4 cylinder wall looks good, one piston and some assorted bolts and gaskets and it'll be like new again..

If the cyliner wall is no good, a used shortblock with the geared BSM and whatnot transferred over from the existing one will do the trick..

I vote for a mere piston replacement, too. As long as cylinder wall is in reasonable shape after a quick hone.

The bore in the block seems Ok.



I'm just going to replace the one piston.

NURAL Part # 87139520 Single piston set; Includes 1 Piston w/ Piston Rings, Pin and Retainer (where applicable) Bore Ø [mm]: 81.000; Bolt Ø [mm]: 26; Compression Height [mm]: 45.830; Bolt length [mm]: 65.8; Recess Depth [mm]: 17.500; Valve Pocket Depth [mm]: 0.700; Production Number: 07901D834; Piston Chamber Volume [ccm]: 23.30 (Only 3 Remaining) Size: Standard

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php

On the head bolts, has anyone used the cheaper set here. These are stretch bolts and the last thing I need is one of these to break off when torquing.

This is from ID parts. [/URL]


The cheaper set.

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I don't think Nural/ae was original supplier to vw. You'll have no way to make sure its same weight and protrusion. replacing a single piston is usually if not always a bad idea. Whitbread did replace one or more pistons, but he limited his chance of failure, using a matching used piston and reringing the engine along with new bearings. Unless you plan on at least doing the same, I wouldn't bet too heavily on any longevity. Every time I replaced just one piston without anything else done, It failed, usually with a second piston failure, but that was 40 years ago. Since there has been water going through this engine, its even more iffy. Had the dealer pulled the head after the dropped gp tip, in all likelyhood they would have replaced the engine as they did for others and we wouldn't have this conversation. Rock auto would I think be one of the last places I'd source parts, but maybe thats just me. I contemplated replacing pistons in a flooded engine, but the short block, with discounts available, makes the most sense, predicated on keeping the car. it even comes with a 12month warranty. when I priced new pistons, oem, they were about 500 each with rings.

What's the difference between a Nural piston sourced from Rockauto or the same Nural piston sourced from any other vendor?

"Every time I replaced just one piston without anything else done, It failed, usually with a second piston failure, but that was 40 years ago"

Wow Thunder you were a busy Lad 40 Years ago.
How many time did you replace just the one piston, out of curiosity?

Not saying its the best way to go but I'm certainly not going to sink $2k into pistons
Alone. This car has 236k and a dodgy transmission waiting to crap.
Worst case scenario it runs for a year or so and I get another 30k miles. Best case it
Runs for another 236k miles
When i remove the old piston I can weigh it and compare to the new one.

Any preference on vendors for head gasket set and bolts etc?

weighing the old one won't help.. you would need to remove a good one, clean ALL of the carbon off, then weigh it..

Given the super low rpm that these engines turn in stock form, a few grams off won't do anything..

Jason,
I was going to rent a dolly from U-Haul and those Bastards won't let me tow with Explorer Sport Trac (2nd Generation) This is on same frame as F150 ***.


U-Haul has chosen not to rent behind this tow vehicle based on our history of excessive costs in defending lawsuits involving Ford Explorer towing combinations. This policy is not related to safety issues. This is an unusual circumstance for U-Haul – we have built our success for over 60 years by saying 'yes' to our customers. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and are committed to working with our customers to find alternative options to help with their move.

Tow with a U-Haul truck instead

LOL.. I can likely come get it with my truck and trailer late this week or this weekend.. absolute worst case would be Monday..

U-haul can be a pain in the rear end..

Chrismak, I had several piston failures till I learned a long time ago, one being a dB5 Recalling Whitbread's rebuild, he had sourced a used piston set, not just one. I doubt you would want to tear it down a second time. Diesels although being lower rpm, have higher stress in areas like piston,rods and bearing surfaces than gassers. Jason will be better equipped to access this engine when he gets it apart. I put a couple engines together yesterday, both a mgb and 1400 mini got new piston sets.

I've seen OE piston sets out by over 10 grams.. This was on a brand new VW short block that got disassembled for piston modification..

Well it looks like a Mute Point as of now.
Just got this e mail.


Unfortunately, part# 87139520 is out of stock and does not have an estimated availability date.

We have checked our catalog and there are no alternatives available and thus we have canceled it from the order.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Thank you,
Dilara
Supply Chain Manager
Ext. #190

phone: (608) 661-1376
fax: (608) 819 - 6350
toll-free: 1-866-ROCKAUTO (1-866-762-5288)
http://www.rockauto.com

grrr.. let's see if we can find a standard BHW piston somewhere before dragging the car down...

I've had extremely good luck with this place:

http://keffervwparts.com/parts/2005...ection=ENGINE&group=PISTONS, RINGS & BEARINGS

TDIJetta99 said:

grrr.. let's see if we can find a standard BHW piston somewhere before dragging the car down...

Click to expand...

Chrismak said:

Well it looks like a Mute Point as of now.
Just got this e mail.


Unfortunately, part# 87139520 is out of stock and does not have an estimated availability date.

We have checked our catalog and there are no alternatives available and thus we have canceled it from the order.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Thank you,
Dilara
Supply Chain Manager
Ext. #190

phone: (608) 661-1376
fax: (608) 819 - 6350
toll-free: 1-866-ROCKAUTO (1-866-762-5288)
http://www.rockauto.com

Click to expand...

Dont worry about the piston weight.
A piston just goes up and down and is not a part of the rotating mass that is balanced.
A piston can have 20 grams of all kinds of carbon and junk hooked on to it and you wont feel it.
A used piston should be easy to find because of engine failures from oil pump/bsm failures.
Unlike a gas engine I would not try to hone the cylinder other than a light touch with fine emery cloth so as not to polute the engine.
It will seal up and run just fine.
Make sure the used piston still has its own rings on it as you will want to reuse them and not the ones from your broken one.
That is what I would do if it was my own car.
I also realize it is not something you would ever dare to do on a customers car not because it would fail but you would never stop hearing stories about it
My $.02

no surprise rock auto doen't have access to that piston. It is a item that normally rock auto would buy from a dealer who discounts but they would lose money filling your order. if you were to do as Peiphil suggests, using used piston and used rings, and not putting a nice 30 degree crosshatch using a 240 grit hone, you'll have a smoker, as the cyl glaze will prevent seating for the used rrings or new ones for that matter. I feel certain Jason knows better than to attempt that. As I said, rock auto would not even be a consideration for me to find parts. Did you try J.C.Whitney? They are about as useless.

Try to find a good used piston, might be your best bet. Always use new rings and make sure to prep the cylinder with the proper ball hone.

I noticed that nobody had answered your question about the head bolts. I used the febi made el-cheapos and they are holding up just fine. Febi has a good reputation so I would not sweat it. On the other hand, if you are going to splurge for the more expensive oems you might as well upgrade to the pd150 bolts which are sold under the brm section on the idparts website. Same price I believe. Good upgrade too!

I plan to upgrade to arp studs in the near future which why I went with the cheaper option this time around.

Are you going to have your cylinder head refreshed?

thundershorts said:

no surprise rock auto doen't have access to that piston. It is a item that normally rock auto would buy from a dealer who discounts but they would lose money filling your order. if you were to do as Peiphil suggests, using used piston and used rings, and not putting a nice 30 degree crosshatch using a 240 grit hone, you'll have a smoker, as the cyl glaze will prevent seating for the used rrings or new ones for that matter. I feel certain Jason knows better than to attempt that. As I said, rock auto would not even be a consideration for me to find parts. Did you try J.C.Whitney? They are about as useless.

Click to expand...

JC Whitney now thats funny. I will call Grainger supply in the morning I see they had a good earning report today.
I see somebody out your neck of the woods selling a block, pistons intact.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B5-VW-PASSAT-2-0L-TDI-BHW-BLOCK-CRANKSHAFT-PISTONS-RODS-OILPAN-PUMP-ASSEMBL-/310650892567?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item48543c7117&vxp=mtr

Looked at that you posted. A short block from vw if you check around would be in the 2300 range. your old sb is a core charge but what you really get is a brand new sb. I wasn't thrilled with the look of the bores of that ebay offering. I have a core sb sitting here which I've kept simply cause its worth 1000 as a trade in. considering you could take the geared bsm out of your bum engine and sell it before giving it to vw, for maybe 8-9 hundred, that might reduce your cost of buying the new sb down to 1500. The feeling of knowing you now would have a zero time unit might be a consideration. Someone might love to get a bsm geared for a greatly reduced price. That way, you take a lot of if's out of the job. Lets see what Jason thinks about that...getting rid of a block which has had a big problem,including water going through it new everything below the head, even comes with new filter/cooler/pressure relief and proper head gasket, a 60 buck or so item.

^^ they're closer to 2600-2700 for a reman short block from VW... I've ordered three of them over the last few years, and 2 were actually re-manufactured, one was new.. None had a geared BSM.. Maybe things have changed over the last 2 years and they come with a geared BSM, but since his was already updated, he's better off from a cost standpoint to repair the existing engine..

Keep in mind the piston didn't randomly fail, it had significant foreign object damage which likely weakened the piston.. it wasn't a flooded engine that had antifreeze pumping through it with any significant volume.. it was a slow coolant loss..