ALH vs BEW

whitedog

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10 Horse power, 22 Lb/Ft and a very different torque curve.

And the fuel system.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
ALH is a VE-type Bosch DFI system, EDC15.

BEW is a PD-type Bosch DFI system, EDC16.

ALH has 90hp, BEW has 100.

ALH has 155tq, BEW has 177.

ALH gets bolted to a rando-fail 01M (4 speed) slushbox option.

BEW gets bolted to a Jatco 09A (5 speed) slushbox option.

ALH requires 505.00 oil.

BEW requires 505.01 oil.

BEW has a sturdier crank and rods, and camshaft driven higher pressure injectors. ALH still uses an injection pump.
 

mrchaotica

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oilhammer said:
BEW has a sturdier crank and rods
Are the crank and rods dimensionally the same between the two (or in other words, if one were building an ALH would he want to use those BEW parts)?

Also, could somebody post dyno charts showing the difference between the ALH and BEW torque curves?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The BEW (as all PDs) have larger rod bearing (fatter) journals at the crank. The ALH still uses the thinner 028 style rods like the AHU used.
 

NosmoKing

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So if I want a car to Build!

Which of these is the best for a buildup? Someone said ALH, but the BEW looks better. Is it just cause the ALH was here longer - more parts available, etc.
 

oilhammer

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The ALH is simpler and cheaper to build up, and possibly more has been done with them already. Pretty much no surprises there.

However the BEW clearly has more potential for power. It has a factory 150hp sibling sold in Europe. The highest factory output VE engine is only 110hp IIRC.

While the BEW's lower end is certainly sturdier, it is not a common occurrence for ALH rods, even on heavily modded engines, to fail. They are still quite robust.

There have been talks of putting an ALH head on a BEW block, so you could get the benefits of the PD's sturdier lower end.

Really the issue comes to how much fuel you can get in and atomized correctly. Since the PD's DFI system injects fuel at a MUCH higher pressure, and can deliver WAY more fuel than the engine can burn, it would seem clear the power potential of the BEW is much higher. But as of right now, I am not sure what all turbochargers are available for the BEW whereas the ALH has all kinds of stuff available.
 

BlueCTTDi

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Modding an ALH vs a BEW, eh? Nothing like a loaded question...

you're going to get strong opinions on both sides of the fence.

I have a BEW (significantly modded, as you can see below). There are pros and cons to both. In its most extreme modified state (guys over in Europe can attest to this a bit better), the PD's can easily be modified well over 200hp.

Not sure which to recommend to you, because it's mainly a factor of how far you intend to go. I will say though, if you're only looking for a moderate bump in power, it's easier to start with a PD. With a reflash alone, you're looking at a 30-40% power increase, with no other mods. On an ALH, you'll need to reflash as well as upgrade the injector nozzles.

Upgraded turbos: available for both the ALH and the BEW.

Injectors: readily available for the ALH, are relatively inexpensive, however are going to be necessary fairly soon in the mod stages of the engine.
Injectors for the BEW are available, however are *very* expensive (well over $1500 for a set new last I checked) - but are really only necessary on the BEW if you plan on going over about 160hp. Stock BEW injectors are very robust.

Exhaust and Intercooler mods are essentially the same for both cars.

Air intake - The BEW has a better intake pipe. Some ALH owners actually upgrade to the BEW intake piping. You wouldn't really need to modify it on the BEW (I'm a bit over 160/280 and I'm running the stock one.)

Fueling: BEW's are equipped stock with a lift pump located in the fuel tank. some ALH owners choose to install these in their cars, as it reduces stress on the traditional injector pump. At high mod levels, it can help the ALH injector pumps deliver additional fuel. (BEW doesn't have a traditional injector pump, instead has a tandem fuel pump supplying the injector rails).

Before someone jumps on me, I'll be fair - there are a couple "cons" to the BEW in the eyes of some people: You need to be careful that only specific oils are used (VW 505.01 oil requirement). Before someone chimes in and whines about the oil requirement, it's READILY available online (tdiparts, boraparts, worldimpex to name a few). There's also been TONS of discussion due to lifters (and corresponding cam wear) on these cars - some BEW's in 04's and 05's have lifters which aren't quite up to the task at high mileages.. this is one of the main reasons for the oil specification, and these parts have since been redesigned. I'm not all that worried about it personally, if you're spending $$$$ on mods, another couple hundred to replace a set of lifters (worst case scenario) at a timing belt interval isn't the end of the world in comparison.

I'm sure there is stuff I've overlooked, but those were the most important things that come to mind immediately. Others can feel free to chime in.

If it were me, I'd go with the BEW. Just make sure it's been properly maintained (specifically WRT (1) the oil requirements, (2) proper fuel having been used - i.e. if you're looking to build one up, especially avoid a car that's run grease, (3) timing belts (if applicable) done properly, by someone qualified with proper tools, and on schedule). Mods for the BEW will cost a bit more, but there's more potential in that engine, IMO. Couple that with the fact that it has a stronger bottom end, and it really makes it a no-brainer. The ALH gives you a touch more of a kick-in-the-arse feeling down low and can make a bit more torque. The BEW's strong point is that it's easier to make bigger HP higher in the rev band.

Like I said, it all depends on how far you're willing to go with it and what you're ultimately looking for.

... Just my $0.02
 
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NosmoKing

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Thanks:

Thats a good start.

1. What about propane injection.

2. Is it impossible to adapt to different injectors? There's a ton of em out there and surely there's something that will fit. Doesn't VW use an off the shelf type of injector? Has this been researched? Wait I'll check.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
NosmoKing said:
Thanks:

Thats a good start.

1. What about propane injection.

2. Is it impossible to adapt to different injectors? There's a ton of em out there and surely there's something that will fit. Doesn't VW use an off the shelf type of injector? Has this been researched? Wait I'll check.
No, VAG does not use an "off the shelf" type of injector. There are some similarities with other DI diesels, but none that are the same.
 

NosmoKing

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09131admin said:
I am driving a Jetta 2002 TDI, how can I know witch one I have?
How do you check by VIN, so if, shudder, I get one off Ebay, I can tell?

How much work can/should be done on these heads to improve flow?
 
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oilhammer

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NosmoKing said:
How do you check by VIN, so if, shudder, I get one off Ebay, I can tell?

How much work can/should be done on these heads to improve flow?
http://www.tdiclub.com/

Taken from the MAIN PAGE of this site: ;)

"
There are two main generations of TDI's found in North America. The first generation was available till 2004 used a distributor-type fuel pump and are designated VE engines and were 1.9l in size. The newer versions are called Pumpe-Düse (unit injector) engines (PD for short) and will continue till the 2006 models are all sold. The VE engines were found in A3 Jettas, B4 Passats (1995/1996), New Beetles (till the end of 2003), Jetta IV (till the end of 2003), and Golfs (till the end of 2003). The VE engine found in the A3 Jettas and B4 Passats were rated at 90hp and 149ft.lbs of torque. The A4 Jetta, New Beetle, and A4 Golf were rated at 90hp and 155ft.lbs.

The PD version are available in New Beetles (2004 - 2006), Jettas (2004 -2006), Jetta Wagons (2004 - 2006), Golfs (2004 -2005), B5 Passat (2004 and 2005), and the 2005 V10 Toureg. The PD found in the New Beetles, Jettas, and Golfs are rated at 100hp and 177ft.lbs torque from a 1.9l engine. The B5 Passat with it's 2.0l TDI pumped out 134 hp and 247 ft.lbs of torque. The king of power is the 5.0l 310HP V10 Touareg that puts out 553 ft.lbs of torque which will be back as a 2007 model. "
 
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NosmoKing

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Oilhammer

Which one of the above would be best for a build beater. I know you gave me a lot of info, but if you had to choose a platform, say someone hired you to do it and gave you free rein but wanted acap (as cheap as possible).

Can you predict what the weak spots will be on the new CRD. I want to set up an in depth maintenance schedule using all available resources. What might they be besides the factory recomended in owner's manual? Bently doesn't have a manual out yet.

Has anyone found out how to convert our 09 CRD to Eurospec yet. It might be a matter of changing ECU's and adding a few wires to harness, oui?
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I would imagine much of the difference is software, but I am not sure.

If I wanted to fiddle with something on the cheap, I would get a 2000+ ALH/5 speed car myself.
 

NosmoKing

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We need to find an Euro Ecu for a good price and find out what PINS go where, and develop an adaptor, if it needs one!? We might be surprised and find that the little sucker slides right in and ignores the superfluous Sheisse! This will be REVOLUTIONARY! Instant 170 HP Jetta!!!! Do IT Do It Do It Do It!!!!! There are charts in the manuals that show the PIN locations.

Find out! What ever you need let me know.

Amerika VW Korps uber Allles!
 
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mrchaotica

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oilhammer said:
Pre-2000 ALH cars have a goofy computer, goofy engine electricals, and that lame leftover and sloppy A3 style shifter. :cool:
What, specifically, is goofy about the computer and electricals? Also, would it be worth switching out all the shifter parts for post-2000 ones (esp. if one were wanting a short shifter anyway)? Is there a complete parts list somewhere?

(I almost started a new thread, but I figure this is tenuously on-topic...)
 

oilhammer

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mrchaotica said:
What, specifically, is goofy about the computer and electricals? Also, would it be worth switching out all the shifter parts for post-2000 ones (esp. if one were wanting a short shifter anyway)? Is there a complete parts list somewhere?

(I almost started a new thread, but I figure this is tenuously on-topic...)
The ECU is unique, it's software is more akin to the AHU engines, but the PROM is not socketed. And it is not reflashable through the DLC like the 2000+ cars. And they have hard start problems as well. Jeff from Rocketchip could explain this better than I.

The parts on the engine are unique too. The N75 valve, the A/C pressure sensor, the anti-shudder valve solenoid, etc. are all different,and MUCH more expensive to replace. In some cases you can change the harness connectors to use the cheaper 2000+ parts.

Yes, if you can find a whole 2000+ shifter assembly it would certainly be worth the upgrade. And you can get short shifters for those as well.
 

NosmoKing

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Hey Oilhammer: Which year do you think would be best? I know they make small changes year by year and you would know?:p Part of the fun would be digging a cherry pie up for a good price. Know what I mean?

-edit- Answered on another thread by oilhammer: 2003 best year of ALH
 
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joetdi

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2-2002 Jettas W/Auto
1999 Golf/Jetta have Generation I can-bus systems--No address word 19
2000-2001 Golf/Jetta have generation II can-bus systems-w/address word 19
2002 Golf/Jetta to the present have generation III can-bus systems-w gateway--this was also the year that the speed of the convenience system was increased from 62.5 kbits/s to 100
 

jcrews

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I have a seemingly bizarre one. For some reason the data bus is attached to the cluster although the original one was a 919 part and didn't use the bus. Maybe there was a production change in late 1998 (11/98 build date) to use MY 2000 parts when the old ones ran out.
 
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