2006 jetta tdi no a/c

delzeit

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Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Location
Dublin, GA
TDI
2006 Jetta
I finally got mine fixed. It took trading for a Honda, but now I have a/c after having a problem for over a year with nobody able to diagnose. Good luck to all who are still fighting this issue.
 

windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Well the fans quit working, so took it to the dealer and they said the larger fan is shorting out, so it needs replaced. Does that sound like a legitimate issue?? The weird thing is that I know the fans had been working and even then the air was still blowing hot. Unless they were never actually blowing fast enough or something
 
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DanG144

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Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Window,
It does sound legitimate. They fail too often.
But there can easily be other problems, too.

There is no clutch to engage on your car. So anyone who told you it was engaging is not fully up to speed on your type of AC.

Checking it out with VCDS is by far the best way to go on this vehicle.
 

windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Thanks Dan for shedding some light on the situation.

Concerning the clutch it is rotating at all times by the drive belt and I made sure the mechanic knew that, he said he shown a light on it and could see it engaging. I also contacted the place where I purchased the clutch and he said it is very rare that they actually go bad but he see's alot more of those pressure switches(think thats what you call it) go bad, that is connected too the clutch

I'll be so glad once this is fixed, just hope its not a long expensive road ahead.

Thanks alot for all the info
 

windowbarn

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Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I replaced the two fans like the dealer said I should and it still doesn't work. The thing is on the connector that connects too the fan assembly the black and green wire are not getting power and the other two are. Which leads me too think it's those two wires that power the bigger fan so that is why it wasn't working in the first place. Any thoughts on where too proceed from here?? The dealer said if that doesn't fix it that I should bring it back and they would check it out further.
 

DanG144

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Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Actually both fans get motive power from the same two wires. The two wires, large 6 mm brown and 6mm red, power the fan control module built into the back of the large fan, and that provides power to both fans.

Brown is ground, red is positive.

The small black (.75 mm) wire should have 12 volts on it from fuse SB 24, 10 amps. This is control power for the unit.
The small green (.74 mm) wire is a signal wire to the ECU.

So your small fan was running? Is running?
 

DanG144

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Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Fuse SA1, 200 amp metal strip, feeds SA3 50 amp red fuse. These should be on the front face (vertical) of your fuse block in the engine compartment. This is the motive power feed to your fans. Wire #1, 6.0 mm, red.

Fuse SA1, 200 amp metal strip also feeds J317 (main power relay ), one set of output terminals from J317 feeds fuse SB24, 10 amp (on the top horizontal face of your engine compartment fuse panel.) This goes through a wiring connection (A99), This is control power feed to your fans. Wire #2, 0.75mm, black. J317 (main power relay) is probably located on the top horizontal face of your engine fuse panel, and has a 458 painted on it.

There is also a main ground 642 from your fan controller that must be made up. Wire #4, 6.0 mm, brown. This goes to a ground connection "Engine Compartment, on top of left front chassis member". There are also two nearby grounds under the left headlight that should not be confused with this. Quote is from the Bentley.

The last of the 4 wires from your fan control module (located on back of main fan) is a communication wire to the ECU. This is wire #3, .75mm, green.
 

windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Actually before I took it out they were both running when I decided too check and so I called the dealer back and said that they are both going now and wanted too make sure that was the problem before I removed the fan assembly, he said that the larger fan may be going but the fan is still shorting out and causing the problem. It almost seems like a hit and miss situation. Right now both fans are not going when I turned the a/c on. And I have the two new ones in
 

windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Thanks alot Dan for the information. I'm getting 11/12 volts from the big red positive wire and the small blue/brown wire which I'm assuming is possibly the black wire you are refering too. There is no voltage on the other small yellow wire as that is probably the signal wire too the ecu. I tested the prongs with the harness disconnected from the fan assembly. So I'm not sure does that sound like the fan is bad?? Because it appears like they should be getting power but they are not going on. I have had two new sets now so not sure what the deal is. Is there a way I could jump the fans with the battery and see if they go on that way??

Edit: After double checking I'm only getting 10/11 volts from the big red wire and the small blue/brown wire. Since it's not 12 or more is that why they are not going on??
 
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DanG144

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Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
They should be at your main supply voltage.
What is your battery voltage during these tests?

Many of your computers will not reliably work with less than 11.5 volts.

The wire colors I am giving came from the Bentley manual.
 

windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Ok. Another thing is these are aftermarket fans and I'm wondering if that might have something too do with it?? At least thats what the dealer told me but If I'm putting power too it and they work then it must not be the fans right unless its the controller built into the big fan

Also can I hook up a battery too the big fan somehow too check that it works outside of the car?? I did it with the small fan since that one only has power and ground and it worked fine when I Jumped it.
 
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windowbarn

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Dec 23, 2009
Location
Iowa
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I took the car too the dealer again for another diagnosis with the new fans and they said there is still a problem with the main big fan controller in the larger fan. I'm beginning too wonder if it has something too do with the aftermarket fans, also these fans were classified for a jetta with the 2.5l engine but someone on here told me they would still work for the tdi. They sure looked and fit right except that the frame had too be switched around.
Any idea's on where too get the genuine vw fans for a good price??
 

zleem60

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Apr 4, 2009
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Queen Creek, AZ
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2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Window,
did you get the big fan replaced with the one that works for a TDI and not from 2.5L. The fans are very specific in terms of the amount of wattage it uses to work with the TDI. Stick with the fan that is made specifically made for 1.9 TDI and what wattage it uses, or it won't work properly. I have ordered a less expensive fan that fit my 2006 TDI but it was rated at 150watt instead of 200watt. Fan never operated properly. I still have AC issue but now it is working better with the proper 200 watt fan. I need to replace the High pressure sensor to see if that fix my problem with AC not working the first 10-15 minutes of it running in the morning.
 

DanG144

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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I don't think the HP sensor will fix it.
With a VCDS you can often see that the HP sensor works properly, but you get the delay.

As an experiment, on a friend's 05.5 Jetta, we added about an ounce of fresh PAG oil to the compressor. It is no longer sticking - but it has only been a month or so.

It might be worth pulling the charge and oil, then refilling it with PAO oil instead of PAG, as an experiment.
 

sptsailing

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Jul 9, 2010
Location
Safety Harbor, FL
TDI
2006 Jetta Manual, stock with Panzer Plate & Franko6 modified EGR cooler & CAM
I had this fan problem too

My 2006 TDI AC was acting up similarly. The VW dealer diags showed a bad fan, for which they quoted $587 to replace. I found an OEM replacement on eBay for $85 + $15 shipping and replaced it myself. Not too hard a job. I took the old fan apart and found that one of the armature brushes was simply stuck a little too far away to make contact with the armature. I might have been able to fix it by simply tapping on the bad fan with a hammer.

I also have a 2006 Jetta TDI. A/C cools partially at highway speeds, went to a/c shop and he said he thought it was the smaller of the two fans. Not coming on when a/c turned on.

I pulled the shroud and two fan assembly tonight and the big fan will run great from a 12 volt battery. The small would turn very slowly if I got it started with my hand. Looks like I have a bad fan. Looked all over online for a replacement but most of the listings are for 2005 models. Found a listing for 2006 for ACM brand or Siemens. The ACM is only 150 watts, Siemens is 200w, and I figure I need all of the air movement I can get in sunny Florida. The rub is the best prices I have found on the Siemens are only about $30 better than the dealer and no one can tell me how long it will take to get it here. I guess I am headed to the dealer tomorrow morning and can have it in 2 days.

The money will be worth it, it has been 100 degrees plus for 7 days in a row, and I am sweating my ass off.

Pat
 

zleem60

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Location
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2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
@ sptsailing,
You didn't mention which fan, big or small is not working? I had problems with my small fan (condensor) and had it replaced. I also replaced the High pressure sensor now both fans come on but not at a high speed first 15-30minutes in the morning. When the AC finally comes on in my car, both fans are spinning at much higher speed. I can run it all day after that and it won't be hot again unless I let it sit for more than an hour.


My 2006 TDI AC was acting up similarly. The VW dealer diags showed a bad fan, for which they quoted $587 to replace. I found an OEM replacement on eBay for $85 + $15 shipping and replaced it myself. Not too hard a job. I took the old fan apart and found that one of the armature brushes was simply stuck a little too far away to make contact with the armature. I might have been able to fix it by simply tapping on the bad fan with a hammer.
 

zleem60

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Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Dan,

You might be right, but the fans would not even come on until I replaced the HP sensor. Now they do spin but at at a very fast speed. But they are coming on so I think the HP Sensor in my car did go bad. Now, next thing I have to figure out is how to use the Vag-com to figure out which other thing is causing AC not blow cold air in the first 15-30minutes in the morning. I will give your idea a shot this weekend because my mechanic is coming over to put his AC gauges on it. He did mention that if the expansion valve is stuck in open. we may have to replace it. I'll order one just in case.

Caper7 mentioned about the temperature sensor. I can't find it on Bentley's manual. Is he talking about the Evaporator temperature sensor inside the car by the passenger foot well? I just want to get this thing fix. 15 minutes driving in the hot car in AZ is no fun. Worse when the AC doesn't kick in until after 30 minutes. So any insight would be great. I do have a Vag-Com but haven't the slightest clue how to use it properly. Can you shed some light?
when you say to pull the charge and oil. Do you have to have a special machine to do that. I think my mechanic have to vacuum but I will have to check with him. What are the difference between the PAG and PAO oil and where do I find them? Sorry for so many questions but I'm kind of loss here.


I don't think the HP sensor will fix it.
With a VCDS you can often see that the HP sensor works properly, but you get the delay.

As an experiment, on a friend's 05.5 Jetta, we added about an ounce of fresh PAG oil to the compressor. It is no longer sticking - but it has only been a month or so.

It might be worth pulling the charge and oil, then refilling it with PAO oil instead of PAG, as an experiment.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
All of the information I have points to the fact that the fault is in the compressor- in the Refrigerant Control Valve (RCV).

I have worked with data from about 6 cars.

Each time the problem was that even with full displacement demanded by the controller, and showing full current to the RCV, the high pressure would stay too low.

Let us know how your txv testing turns out.
In every case that I know of, with ONE exception, the delayed starting was fixed by replacing the compressor. For one unlucky Texan, even this did not fix it. Perhaps they did not flush properly and something fouled his RCV immediately.

Go into measuring blocks and you can find the RCV current, High pressure sensor output, fan control signal and all the other temperature sensor outputs. You can log them over time using the LOG function, add the date or some other characters to the automatically proposed file name (before the .CSV) before starting to take data.

If you do this and catch the delay, then catch the same data after it has freed up for the day, you can see what I am talking about.

The evaporator temperature will be too high, the high pressure will be too low, the low pressure (this takes a gauge set - all the rest is VCDS) will be too high, the RCV current will be maxed out (about .825 amp?)

You will have to do your own research about PAG and PAO oils. As with every oil discussion I know of there will be controversy.

I am NOT an air conditioning expert, or an oil expert; I am just an interested amateur.

There are quite a few temperature sensors for Climatronic systems, maybe only one (the evaporator temp) for the Climatic systems. Check your temperature sensors out by reading them prior to starting the system, when the car has been out of the sun and off for 8 hours. They should all read about ambient temperature.

A bad evaporator sensor can prevent compressor loading. It would not create delays the first time of the day, then normal from then on. I only know of one failure of an evaporator temperature sensor - it resulted in NO AC at all.
 

zleem60

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Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Dan,

I don’t have a clue which block I’m suppose to measure to figure out all that you are referring to.

I got as far as getting to Address 08: Auto HVAC (1k0 907 044 BA)
This is what I notice when the AC is on but no cool air is blowing. Here are the readings:

Group 003: 10.0 Bar Coolant pressure
35.6 % Radiator Fan Activation (actual)
38.0 % Radiator Fan Activation (Spec.)
On Engine Speed (increase)

When the AC is blowing cool air, this is what I observed:

Group 003: 15.0 Bar Coolant Pressure
67.6 % Radiator Fan Activation (actual)
68.4 % Radiator Fan Activation (Spec.)
On Engine Speed (increase)

From reading the data, I know both Radiator and Condensor fan is moving a lot fasting and AC is cold coming out. I also notice when I stopped to read some of the data, the Coolant pressure started to drop so did the speed of the fan slowing and the AC started to become not as cold. However, when I did rev the engine a bit, the coolant pressure rise and AC is blowing cold because the fan is moving faster.

So, do you know which measuring blocks I need to go into to find the RCV current, High pressure sensor output, fan control signal and all the other temperature sensor outputs that you have mentioned. I don’t have clue where to find this information.

The VCDS 10.6 manual does not specific identified which block goes to which sensor.
Is there a way to have the VAG-Com to list all available block to print or put into excel format. That might help me find it easier.

Any insight would be great. Now I’m just wondering how to keep the Coolant pressure high enough to keep the fans from falling below 30%, that’s when AC doesn’t blow cold air. I will tell you there are no fault codes found when I did the autoscan, as least it did not involve the HVAC components.
 

DanG144

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Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
When in measuring blocks, please note the name of the file in the top left of the screen, and send it to me.

You can often look in advance measuring blocks for documented data, or you can just page through all of the numbers one Measured Value Block or group at a time.

If you click on the file name, it should open and let you see all of the available data points, with all of the notes that they will show. I don't know another way to open a xx.clb file (which I think yours is.) Perhaps someone can enlighten us. You can find the files with explorer if you go to C drive, ROSS-TECH, VCDS, Labels. If it is a xxx.lbl file then you can open it in notepad. You can then print this file.

You have it backwards on the cause and effect. The fan speed varies due to the pressure, not the pressure due to the fan speed. Higher pressure means hotter temperatures on the high side -compressor discharge side- condenser coil side- and the fan is asked to run faster to cool it off.

The fans are simply left and right, both cool the radiator and both cool the condenser coil; they should always run at the same speed because they are fed power from the same pulse width modulated controller.

This is a guess. Try looking at MVB 018, first field for Compressor Current Specified value, also look for Compressor Current actual value - some cars have it and some do not. The maximum compressor current value is .825 amps, I think.

Another guess. Look at MVB 15 field 1 for "compressor shutoff requirement" it gives you the status of the compressor interlocks, if your car is the same as the single data log that I have left after a computer crash.

The pressure that you give in your post is the high side pressure, measured in BAR, just multiply by 15 to get approximate psi. 14 or 15 BAR is normal, for a hot day with full AC load.

If your evaporator temperature starts to drop below 5 C, the compressor may start to unload - you can see compressor current drop and compressor discharge pressure drop, if this happens. The compressor control scheme may look at other factors than simply evaporator temperature - I don't know the full control algorithm. But when you see compressor control current drop you know the system is asking the compressor for less than full output.

I hope I have given you a starting point.
 

DanG144

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Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I would say that these are the critical things to log while troubleshooting.

These are from a 2010 Climatic system, and on this one you can only use "Advanced Measuring Values" it will not let me use the measuring value blocks.

Compressor load 003
Compressor shut-off requirement 005
Compressor current; specified value 007
Coolant fan activation; actual value 009
Refrigerant pressure 039
Temperature after evaporator 057

The numbers are not likely to be the same for your vehicle, but the descriptors very well may be. At least they should be close.
 
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zleem60

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2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Thanks Dan, I'm going to give that a shot on all that you have provided. One way or another, we'll figure it out with your help. Thanks!! I'm going to throw the VAG-Com on the car and see if I can pull up the "Advanced Measuring values". I will post with results.
 

zleem60

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Apr 4, 2009
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Queen Creek, AZ
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2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
I still can't figure where to find these perimeters to show you. I got don't see any of the items you gave in advance measuring blocks, so I can't even give you what the measurements are. I have the Vag-com with the software VCDS 10.6. Am I using the right cable and software to read the cars info? I just don't know. Any insight would be great. Maybe I'm using the wrong software.
 

DanG144

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Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
You have the right software and cable.

The names may be slightly different.

The equivalents are available somewhere in your AC controller. Can you tell me which file is used (upper left corner) when doing measuring blocks (not shown for advance measuring)?

Dan
 

DanG144

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Chapin, South Carolina, USA
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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Ok, talked to Zleem60.

His label file is 1K0-907-044.lbl

The equivalent points of interest are:

Compressor load 2,4 = Compressor load
Compressor, Shut-off Code, Specification 1,1 = Compressor shut-off requirement
Compressor, Current (specified) 2,2 = Compressor current; specified value
Compressor, Current, (actual) 2,1 = was not available on 2010.
Radiator Fan, Activation (act) 3,2 = Coolant fan activation; actual value
Coolant Pressure 3,1 = Refrigerant pressure 039
Evaporator, Temperature 6,1 = Temperature after evaporator 057

Note that even in this module sometimes coolant means Engine Coolant - the pink antifreeze, and sometimes it means Refrigerant = Freon = R134a = Coolant.
This can be very confusing.

After talking to Zleem, it sounds as if (now that he has fixed his small fan) the only issue he has is the dreaded delayed cooling for the first 15 minutes or so of the day.

This issue is too common with the early Climatic systems here in the US. It is also a problem with the Climatronic systems after 2005.5.

His AC control system appears to be doing all it can. It is sending out .82 amps to ask the compressor Refrigerant Control Valve (RCV) to port refrigerant to the wobble plate control piston to move to full displacement. But the move to full displacement is not occurring.

There are no codes that prevent operation, no interlocks.

Either the RCV is faulty, sticking perhaps.
Or the piston is simply not able to move the wobble plate - it leaking, or the wobble plate is sticking.

I have had some measure of success (short term - 3 weeks of no delayed start) in this situation by adding an ounce of PAG 46 oil to the compressor. Who knows if it will last or not?
 

zleem60

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Location
Queen Creek, AZ
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2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Dan,
Still running into same problem. Although it seems to be cooling at around 9 minutes now instead of 15 minutes after we pulled the old freon out and added an ounce of oil into compressor. Still not cooling like it should. Have to say if my 2002 jetta has current tags and insurance on it. Would be driving that instead. I just finished the Auto to 6 speed swap and the 2002 Jetta have new life and AC is cold as ice in that car. Oh well, I'm waiting for the Refrigerant control valve to come in. Hopefully sooner than later. Will keep update when it arrives to see if it helps the AC issue.
Thanks again,
Mike
 

TNTMORE

Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Indiana
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi X 2
I have an 06 Jetta TDI and have checked all fuses and relays, replaced large fan with new OEM one and still have no fans at all(even when the car reachs 190*) Help.
 

DanG144

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Aug 2, 2007
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Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The temperature indicator reads 190F over a wide range of actual engine temps, about 167 to 225F. It is computer driven to indicate "normal" over all normal ranges.

It is very rare for a TDI fan to come on simply due to engine temperature. If you get into a spot where no air will naturally flow over the radiator, and rev your engine to 2000 rpm for a while (maybe 20 minutes), then the fans will possibly come on.

I see it sometimes during diesel purge sessions, but almost no other time.

Your fans can best be checked with a VCDS, doing the Engine module, OUTPUT TEST. It will cycle the fans from minimum to maximum speed.

Alternatively you can read high side AC pressure with VCDS and the fans should come on about 150 psig or so, in their slowest possible speed.

If you monitor the AC pressure with a set of gauges and you do not see them come on at high pressures, then you know that either your HP sensor or your fans have failed.
 

grecher

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Feb 28, 2011
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strathroy
TDI
2006 tdi jetta
have a 2006 jetta TDI, how do i jump 12v too fans to confirm that they work, can't see connector to the fans from the top.
 
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