Best water pump?

TornadoRed

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With most timing belt kits rated at 80k-100k miles, nobody wants to experience a premature water pump failure. With that in mind, which is the most reliable water pump brand?

Laso (metal impeller, brass?)


Laso (plastic impeller)


Geba (plastic impeller)


Graf (metal impeller)

Hepu (plastic impeller)

Hepu (metal impeller)

Meyle (plastic impeller)

I suppose the best question is, which ones tend to fail the most often? Avoid those and what you have left should be reasonably reliable for 100k miles.

Also, I have read that if a plastic impeller breaks, it will just stop working. But if a metal impeller fails, it could stop spinning and lock up, leading to rapid timing belt failure. Is this true in the real world, or just theoretically?
 

alphaseinor

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Generally I try to stick with a metal impeller... just change it every 100,000 miles/ 5 years with the belt... you won't have a problem
 

jasonTDI

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I only use LASO Brass. 600ish or so and they have never failed once.
I have had 3 HEPU pumps fail and one factory unit. These are all A4's.
Had good luck with A3/B4 no matter what one.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I like Laso or Graf metal impellers. I would NEVER install a plastic impeller one unless I had no choice. Just seen to many broken.
 

Toby

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ninedee_golf_tdi said:
Are you sure they arent made of gold ?
lol, It took me a second read to realize that its the number of times he has used them :D.
 
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jasonTDI

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LOL. I've done a couple of them.....The guys that have come on some days and seen 3 of them done. It's just a method to madness. Once you've done a bunch they are second nature.
 

Drivbiwire

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Personally I prefer the resin (they are not plastic) impellers, reason is better flow of coolant.

However I have had/seen issues with the rebuilt pumps from VW.

The brass impeller is a very close 2nd to the resin impeller due to the very smooth casting process resulting in very good pumping quality!

The cast iron impeller is junk, I hate them because they have such a poor cast quality, you can even see rough bits from the casting that no doubt make cavitation in the pump rotor. As for leaking I can't say I have seen one leak but then again most people I see don't bring these kits to my door.

1830 timing belts and counting...zero failures :D

DB
 

nogo90gp

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I would have to give my vote to the brass impeller type. Reason being is that i replaced my stock pump when i had the timming belt done only to have the new pump (plastic impeller) fail in 10,000 mi. The new brass one has been on for about 40,000mi
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I see so many broken plastic impellers (on all kinds of cars, not just Volkswagens) that I would never put one on. Resin, plastic, play-dough, call it what you want, they break and cause problems.
 

jasonTDI

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You can tell that to BMW and Mercedes in the early to mid 90's when they had a bazillion in-line sixes blow heads due to them coming apart.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
jasonTDI said:
You can tell that to BMW and Mercedes in the early to mid 90's when they had a bazillion in-line sixes blow heads due to them coming apart.
Jaguar and Ford as well. Lots and lots of Duratec V6s died because of broken impellers. Most never got new engines because the POS rental fodder that they were bolted in to were not worth the hassle. But lots of Taurus and Contours were towed away from my shop to the scrapper.
 

TornadoRed

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I think the Dieselgeek kit has a Laso waterpump with brass impeller...

tdiparts.com kit has a Graf waterpump with metal impeller...

BleachedBora doesn't say what brand, only that it has a metal impeller.

Metalmanparts.com has Graf waterpump with metal impeller.

Regardless of which design is best, the customers have spoken and the TB kits vendors have listened -- no more plastic (resin) impellers.
 

mrGutWrench

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oilhammer said:
I like Laso or Graf metal impellers. I would NEVER install a plastic impeller one unless I had no choice. Just seen to many broken.
__. When Matt ("Car 54") did the timing belt on my '02 sedan (~80K miles), I had ordered the "OEM Parts" kit from World-Impex. We got the engine mount out and the engine jacked up and he asked me to hand him the water pump. Crack open the box and "OSOD, it's a plastic impeller". "Is that bad?" I ask. He says "I sure prefer the brass impeller types". But it's 2PM on a Saturday and my car is spread across his garage floor. We agree that the plastic ("resin", play-doh, whatever) ones come from the factory so it will probably be OK. Then he pulls the stock one - the high quality resin impeller is eroded to sh!t -- I guess because it was doing such a good job of preventing cavitation and moving coolant.

__. When I bought the kit to change the belt on my replacement '03 wagon (you know, the one that absolutely "we have teh service documentation" had the belt changed at 100K miles - just as it was coming off lease), I specified the brass Graf impeller water pump.

__. I'm guessing that the *most important* issue is that you change the water pump and not expect the old one to live another 100K miles, and that principle is more important than the type of pump impeller, but my future kits will have (European-made) brass impellers on the water pumps.
 
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jayb79

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My Graf (metal imp.) pump is leaking at 84k. I will be trying the Laso this time. My factory pump had 201k on it and i only changed it because of the miles.

(edit)
Upon further inspection it is not a bad pump. The o-ring was pinched when i put it in. Why it went for 80k b4 it leaked is weird but, I put in a new o-ring and it will go for another 20k b4 i replace everything.
 
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tdidieselbobny

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This past fall,the water pump on my A3 had to be replaced after about 40k-metal impeller -but it was shaft bearing going to hell.If I ever get an A4,I will keep this in mind.
 

visionlogic

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tdidieselbobny said:
-but it was shaft bearing going to hell.
That's exactly what failed on my ALH. Except that it was the factory resin impeller pump that had not been changed by the dealer when the prior owner had the dealer do his TB job - which, BTW, was a 'mark & pray' job. That pump failure damn near cost me an engine.
 

TornadoRed

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Bump for this thread, requesting more opinions or more anecdotal evidence, or hopefully a link to any studies or tests of water pump reliability.
 

TDICADDGUY

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I do know to stay away from anything Meyle branded that has a bearing. Had a large idler roller start flinging grease after only 80 miles. Upon discussion with Franko6, he informed me of their issues.

Frank supplied me with a Hepu metal impeller pump, has been fine so far.

I'm curious about the OEM "resin" impeller pumps, how many fail before the interval is up? Or are all the failed ones already past their interval from dealers and other shops not changing them with the TB? I know Harvieux (Leonard) has mentioned several times that he prefers the resin pump for the same reasons that DBW mentioned.

Personally, I will probably go with the brass one next time around...it has to be close to the resin one in terms of keeping cavitation to a minimum.
 

Traildog

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I've noticed more than a few pumps w/ resin impellers, although working ok, have longditudinal cracks in the vanes. I've also seen them in the pics posted here if the image was clear enough. Not all of the pumps were in service an abnormally long time (>60Kmi) either. Metal impellers make me feel more secure :).
 

BleachedBora

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For what it's worth I've had the following returns:

3 LASO water pumps (MK4)
4 Graf (MK4, including my own leaker in the MK3)
0 Hepu (MK5)
1 Bosch (A3/B4)
0 Saleri (MK4)

The Saleri is a resin, it's in my own Golf, for reasons like what Drivbiwire mentions I prefer this pump. That said, my default is a Laso/Graf or Hepu in my MK4 kits with an option for the Saleri.

The only current source I know of in North America for Laso pumps has discontinued them (I actually bought them out when I heard this). I looking for other sources, but the days of Laso pumps are numbered here in the US as far as I know, if another source isn't found...
-BB
 

TornadoRed

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bump, to see if the options have changed.
 

TornadoRed

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TornadoRed said:
Regardless of which design is best, the customers have spoken and the TB kits vendors have listened -- no more plastic (resin) impellers.
TDIParts.com still says "metal impeller" but the photo seems to be of a water pump with a brass impeller.

Boraparts.com says "Graf/Hepu or Laso metal Waterpump".

MetalManParts.com says "Graf or German made HEPU water pump with metal impeller".

Dieselgeek.com still shows "Laso water pump... with brass impeller".

WorldImpex.com says "Hepu water pump" but no other information.
 
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jasonTDI

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As far as I know Laso pulled out of the U.S. There has been a big rash of failures lately of the ones I installet in late 06'-early 07'.
 

brnsgrbr

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Ah man. That is the last thing I want to hear before I install my Laso tomorrow along with the TB upgrade kit I just bought from Diesel Geek. By the way, can you over tension the TB in a MK4 ALH?
 

Dimitri16V

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Installed 3 Graff from diesel geek and tdiparts T-belt kits , no leaks yet
 
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