2.0 CR big turbo build, aiming to set WR

mrchill · Sep 28, 2016

Many years ago the same things were being said of the older engines...then the tuners finally figured out all the tricks. I suspect this is the same. It takes time to learn the tricks.

xjay1337 · Sep 28, 2016

you can't trick a mechanical object into flowing more air or pumping more fuel.
there are tricks to get past some restrictions but it's like saying pd130 injectors will do 350bhp, just an impossibility.

mrchill · Sep 28, 2016

Perhaps you missed where I said tuning. Hardware helps a lot as well. And the hardware part is trivial. The primary power dam on these cars is the tuning. No one needs to add more hardware until the tuning is perfected. There is no reason why these engine with stock internals cannot reach 300hp. Will it last forever at that level? Who knows? Have to get there first.

xjay1337 · Sep 28, 2016

Stock fuel pump on the CR engine will not provide enough railp or fuel for 300bhp. For the 5000th time. No matter what amount of tuning wizardry you do on the ECU side.

Neither does the head flow enough air to allow you to add more fuel! You just end up smoking away...

Macradiators.com · Sep 28, 2016

stock pump 278hp 2 weeks ago in NL freakin famous tuner, stock pump 282 from top 3 tuners in Italy and 284hp from Manuele Ceci
facts not words on proven dynos, all independent professionals
means the "creme de la creme" from Italy, NL and Ro are all charlatans because 3 guys on a forum never vent over 270 never mind the reasons why

mrchill · Sep 28, 2016

I remember when most folks believed that the 8 valve Tdi would never pass 180 hp because the head would not breath enough and the pumps couldnt deliver enough fuel. There are examples of 300 hp 8 valve rotary pump tdis....so dont you suppose that a 16 valve common rail tdi with a bit more than double the fuel pressure should do at the very least the same? And mind you, many of the strengthening techniques we add to the older engines are stock on the new ones. The hardware could use some improving...in fact, I said 6 or so years ago that these heads flow poorly...but still...they can do 300...even without the improvements.

xjay1337 · Sep 29, 2016

Well, no clearly it doesn't do more the figures you expect.
We know the 8v heads flow limits around 260-270 without porting or putting cams in to help. And it turns out the cr heads are pretty much the same, maybe a tad lower. How many times do we have to say 1.1 lambda is no more air available! Thats a headflow issue.

Im getting fed up of repeating myself. The stock cr pump wont do those figures. I know this because i have tried it! Hence why we are now on a cp3 fuel pump upgrade. And while we no longer have railp or inj quantity issues we are into headflow.

To say stock fuel pump can do 1750bar at 4k and injecting over 90mg iq is impossible.

I am not aware of any car anywhere injecting higher fuel IQ than me.

The true measure of speed is 1/4 mile terminal speed and claimed 280+ bhp cars are no faster than my car at 255bhp. Go figure.

mk1-83 · Sep 29, 2016

Yes end speed at 401 mm say a lot about engine hp

mrchill · Sep 29, 2016

Terminal velocity is a factor of power....weight and aerodynamics. If the weights are identical, then power and aerodynamics are the deciding factors. In terms of some making 300 hp or so...and others making 250, its either a difference in skill, or a difference in measurement. Its a shame that there isnt a place everyone would be willing to go to measure speed over distance, dyno and for good measure, have a scale. This way, there would be no question. However, it seems no one is willing to prove themselves in this way. As a result, there will always be argument.

[486] · Sep 29, 2016

mrchill said:
Terminal velocity is a factor of power....weight and aerodynamics.

mass doesn't matter when you're going flat out
it matters for acceleration

flee · Sep 30, 2016

[486] said:
mass doesn't matter when you're going flat out
it matters for acceleration

This is only true when you have an unlimited distance to reach Vmax.
In the real world you only have so much time before you have to begin braking,
so mass will come into play particularly with higher power levels.

turbobrick240 · Sep 30, 2016

flee said:
This is only true when you have an unlimited distance to reach Vmax.
In the real world you only have so much time before you have to begin braking,
so mass will come into play particularly with higher power levels.

I see what you are saying, but it does not require unlimited distance to reach Vmax. The distance is dependant upon many factors including mass, power, friction, etc.

Rub87 · Oct 4, 2016

sneak preview, in my car atm I have for instance 100 mg with lambda 1,2 at 3500 rpm with 2.2 bar boost. this is with emp:boost ~1:1 with ported head and state of the art camshafts.

in a stock head car with 2260 u need for same lambda 96 mg and 2.4 bar of boost. go figure.

Bobby Singh · Oct 4, 2016

You have just ruined the WR attempt

Rub87 · Oct 4, 2016

nah, im not there yet, need to sort some issues with the staging, time is my worst enemy

Macradiators.com · Oct 4, 2016

CP3 pump is more than enough for my goal
anyway, we'll see results from JD Engineering in NL before i map mine.
on stock pump they got 278HP on same CR engine, we see what a good pump can bring to the table.
Same dyno, different hardware, let the numbers talk.

If they do 290+ somebody must admit they got it wrong. If they do 300+ , should close shop and find another job

Bobby Singh · Oct 4, 2016

Don't they also claim 450hp from biturbo v6?

Macradiators.com · Oct 4, 2016

Dont know.
Eric in romania did a job on the biturbo with dpf off
Launched the car stock then remapped here is the dyno.
JD i think have full exhaust and wagner IC

Macradiators.com · Oct 7, 2016

Since it's impossible to buy a kit for the CP3 i decided to build it myself, next week should be ready.
I put in 2 hours of work in order to get the measures right an make a prototype on my lathe in order to have the sprocket positioned at the right height so the belt will sit correctly on it.
Tomorrow i will be testing the smaller displacement CP3 pump i just got and will make the final product on EDM machine next week.

Rub87 · Oct 7, 2016

strange punp gear you have, looks totally different than mine. what car is it from?

Macradiators.com · Oct 7, 2016

Sprocket is from CP1 pump year 2011 , engine i think. there are 2 types, the other one is with 3 screws.
since i have this one to do measuring i will use it now.
I must invent something to mount the cams on the new head

turbobrick240 · Oct 7, 2016

You should be able to buy a cp3 kit from 2micron, fixmyvw.com, and GDM.

Macradiators.com · Oct 7, 2016

Andrew doesnt have it so i wasted no time , saved myself some nice money also for 2h of work
got 3 pumps, 2 free and 3rd paid 50$ after inspecting it, so the CP3 kit will cost me ridiculous $

xjay1337 · Oct 11, 2016

how is it going for you.

Macradiators.com · Oct 11, 2016

Took some measures to make the adapter for the CP3 pump, bingo from the 1st attempt

Tomorrow the CP3 mounting kit should be ready.

Rub87 · Oct 11, 2016

haha, then the fun part starts

xjay1337 · Oct 11, 2016

Good luck mapping

Maybe Bobby can do a remote tune

Macradiators.com · Oct 11, 2016

i'll launch the car with REVO2 sw i have now, then do the tuning so we can compare before and after, then i'm sure the forum "haters" will be unleashed
not all tuners are capable, but we already established that i think

xjay1337 · Oct 12, 2016

I know. Only 2 tuners has tuned gtb2260 with cp3

Macradiators.com · Oct 12, 2016

seems like in italy and nl they had better luck with CP4.2 pumps than cp3 tunes.

CP3 kit is almost done, just a few tweaks to do

2.0 CR big turbo build, aiming to set WR

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