Eurotrash Motorsports: W8 4Motion to BHW swap

not sure yet - ideally sell it but if that fails it might make it's way into my caged B4 or B5

greengeeker said:

Yes, I'm sad to see such a rare bird torn apart.

If this is an original Canada car, it was 1 of 10 brought into the country. Only 95 or so for the US.

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Yes, 1 of 10 W8 6-speed Variants sold in Canada for 2003/2004. And the only one in Pacific Blue...

BTW, Nitec, you should have a BNIB A/C compressor in one of the boxes... I ended up not needing it. I bought it on spec while troubleshooting what ended up being the MUCH more affordable harmonic balancer belt. Those clutchless compressors are $$$, even refurb'd.

it's just a car

Scott - I understand if you need to cry...You can wipe your tears with your new Merc user manual and yes on the AC - you can see a pic of it in post 19

nitec said:

otty - do you have a pic of your AC setup? I suspect the previous owner kept the BHW setup, which doesn't work with the W8...perhaps MJ will help us with out with this

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Have you contacted Machineman about his W8->BHW swap? He should know how it was done but I don't see it explained in his thread here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=425234&highlight=w8

I don't have any pics of my AC setup and it's a little hard to see without removing the bumper. I am fairly certain it is the original AVF setup.

nitec said:

BHW's out...

it's a chain drive BSM - I think the consensus is the leave it alone?

I've got a few gaskets to replace and then it's ready to be dropped in...the W8 is coming out next...

realized pretty quickly that the BHW AC will not work in the W8 so I`ll have to figure out a way to mount the W8 AC compressor to the BHW - perhaps using the BPW bracket from the Audi will work?

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Bhw ac compressor works fine just swap lines over but theres a catch you have to get the climatronic head unit from a v6 glx donor car because they also used a clutch style ac pump w8 is modulated

you mean this guy?



I'd also have to "rewire" plug from the 2 pin modulated to the 1 pin clutch operated...it didn't sound like you have to swap the head unit if you just wire it in directly

the clutch etc. parts have arrived - picking up at the border tomorrow...going to see if I can get the BHW tightened up by the end of the week so it's ready to go in...

heading over to EU for two weeks so it would have been nice to pick up whatever parts I'm missing from there but ran out of time to make a proper list

parts are in...no more excuses

SMF? 240mm? what clutch / disc are you using? 01E Synchronizers don't like SMFs...

SMF 228mm...same one I used on my B7...I read about the synchros but I'm taking the risk...

here's the BPW accessory bracket with the W8 compressor





I`ll need a new pulley for the alternator and hydraulic pump but other than that we're in business...

got on to the "weight reduction" side of the project

I used to use photobucket quite a lot for images - it's turned to complete garbage over the last couple of years.

Good progress!

W8 is under the knife...

last shot before the carnage



Aux air pump has to go


engine oil cooler (at least that's what I think)



no space anywhere around this thing


01E external cooler lines? they go into the radiator but it's not the hydraulic lines so my guess is they're coming from the transmission


AC compressor setup


it looks like the condenser setup is the same between the BHW and the W8 but the lines are obviously different since the W8 has the compressor on the driver side and the BHW has it on the passenger side

almost done with the engine updates - new front and rear seals, balance shaft delete, new timing belt, new starter, new flywheel and clutch kit (SMF 228mm), new gaskets all around

Yes, the 01E has a pump which goes to an external cooler on the W8.

From painful experience I suggest you rethink the MSG. I tried that with a BBQ and 01E in an Allroad. The resonance in the cabin between 1400 and 1800 was unbearable. Switched to DMF and problem went away

this is where I stopped today





I`ll miss this lump of metal



looks like I`ll need new front axles - both of the W8 were very very tired...I`ll pull the BHW ones out to see if they're the same...

the plan for tomorrow:

1. mate the transmission to the engine
2. drop the engine in the car
3. finish the timing belt
4. figure out the accessory bracket etc

what are people doing with this O1E oil cooler situation? will I fry the tranny if I just bypass the cooler? none of my other transmissions have this...I`ll try to see if I can use the BHW radiator ports for the auto tranny...

BHW auto axles are don't work with an 01E

You will need axles from a 99-2003 audi A4 6spd

You don't need the cooler for this application. Just loop the ports together.

Windex, are you sure about the A4 fitment? I thought they were a little short. IIRC the C5 A6 and Passat B5/5.5 were the same

I have the 108mm flanges on my 01E, have salvaged many an A4 driveshaft and installed on my b5.5. It's all about the flange size.

C5 is wider than B5 / 5.5 so the axles are longer. Just freshen up the W8 axles?

You can remove the oil cooler pump, gut it, and then block off the ports rather than looping them. Or, get an auto radiator and hook it up properly. Thats what I did with mine Some versions don't even have the pump, but it seems all the higher powered models did.

I have no problem hooking up a cooler to it - I've got like 5 in the garage...was just wondering what the transmission longevity implications are

Windex - so do I have to switch the flanges to make the other shafts work? so 99-2003 A4 6spd - that's an S4 then right? that would make sense - same transmission and the same suspension...I've got spare A4 1.8t 5spd axles that I could use

I don't exactly want to renew the old ones...I seem to remember already having the car in for the cv boot and by the looks of them now NOTHING was done to either...there was a loud noise from the front that I thought was a bearing but it looks like it may have been the passenger side axle so I'd rather replace them...

oh I forgot - does anybody know what the oil pressure through those 01E lines is? and what oil should I go with? it appears the OEM oil is probably best in the cold climates?

Depends on the flanges on your W8 01E - Mine was from a 2.5 EU TDI, and came with 120mm flanges - I suspect your W8 may have the same - if that is the case, then you're going to have to swap them out to the more common 108mm inner joint sized B5 Audi A4 01E axles.

If you're going to swap the flanges, send the old ones my way please! If you want to keep the large flanges then B5 TDI axles will work - either VE110 if you have the small outer CVs (M14 bolt), or PD130 if you have the larger outers (M16 bolt - seems likely on a W8!). I can easily acquire a pair of those to send your way if you need some.

I found the OE oil for the 01E didn't last very long before it degraded and the trans got notchy. I run Castrol Syntrans in them instead now which they seem to like. Shifts are much nicer than the stock oil. Not sure if you can get that over there though. Anything GL4+ fully synthetic should work though.

here's the flange on the W8



I checked - they're the same as the BHW auto ones...

this is where we stopped yesterday







for documentation purposes here's the W8 rad



and the TDi one (a bit smaller)



this is the W8 rad support...



MJ - I'll be in London next week - I might drop by again to chat

k I wanted to document this mostly for other folks - I don't think we have a good W8 swap DIY thread here...here are the things that more or less need to be sorted out for a direct swap - keep in mind here that I'm starting off with a manual 6spd W8, which is very rare so most folks will likely need to deal with swapping in a manual transmission as well

Fuel:

- Lift pump (in tank) - W8 unit should push about 50psi to the front...this is better than the new FSI units that go over 100 but you probably still want to swap over to the BHW unit
- Fuel cooler - BHW unit can be swapped over or not - personal decision

Mounts:

- BHW engine brackets and TDi mounts are direct swap to the W8 subframe brackets - basically pull out the W8 and drop in the BHW - no issues
- Front damper is different between the W8 and BHW - you'll need to swap the intercooler pipe/damper bar from the BHW to the W8 rad support

Wiring:

- so far the only wire difference that I've noticed is the main ECU power line coming from inside the car and going into the engine harness...the W8 runs it through a relay, where the BHW runs it through a big fuse...unfortunately the two wire terminals are actually different so you`ll either have to get your hands on some spare terminals or just cut and clamp the wire to make it work - I`ll post pics of the differences...
- All other connectors were direct fit between the two harnesses - it is yet to be confirmed whether any actual pins differ...I haven't gone through the harness yet

Intercooler:

- The W8 obviously doesn't have one and instead has a bigger washer fluid bottle in that spot. In order to swap the IC from the BHW I had to remove the W8 washer fluid reservoir and swap in the BHW reservoir along with the IC bracket and IC itself. Very painless - all the mounting holes are there
- Beware you will lose the front headlight sprayer pump if you do that though - the BHW reservoir doesn't have the second port for the pump so there's nowhere to mount it

Radiator:

- The W8 rad is visibly bigger and the main coolant ports are on the wrong side. I decided to keep the W8 rad support as it works better with the headlights and everything else so I will be fitting the BHW radiator to the W8 rad support. So far this will only require drilling an extra hole in the rad support for the lower BHW coolant port and a quick bracket to hold the rad in place - I'll take pics for that
- Keeping the W8 rad support means that I will keep the electrical fans as well - there's quite a bit of wiring in place to run those and none of it seems to be engine dependent so I decided to keep it...I'll have to keep an eye on the temperatures and make sure that the BHW temp sensor is able to drive the fans properly - I may need to add an extra sensor for that - we'll see

AC:

- I think this is the only "challenge" with the whole swap if I could use this word to describe it - it's not really complicated it's just the only thing that requires some thinking and an actual decision
- I've posted some pics above for this so I'll just write it up here
- The BHW uses a clutch type AC compressor that's mounted on the passenger side of the engine and uses a separate belt to drive it with it's own tensioner. Because of that the alternator and hydraulic pump use a thinner belt and therefore have thinner pulleys as well. The problem with keeping this setup is it won't plug directly into your W8 harness.
- The W8 uses a PWM or whatever type compressor that's clutchless and is located on the driver side of the engine. If you wanted to keep that compressor you'd have to use the BPW (B7 A4) accessory bracket that would allow you to mount it on the right of the BHW engine.
- The choice is driven by a few factors:

-- If you're comfortable fixing the compressor electrical (as described by MJ above) then it's probably easiest to just swap over the whole BHW setup including the AC lines etc. Everything will swap over.
-- If you'd like to keep the W8 setup (perhaps you don't want to drain the system when you remove the engine then you'd need to get yourself a new accessory bracket. The W8 lines will need a little "convincing" to work with the BPW bracket as they are twisted a little different but they will work.

- The only thing driving my decision right now is the fact that I have a brand new W8 compressor that I'd like to use and a BPW bracket I bought for my other swap already so for me it's a matter of making the pulleys and lines work which should be fairly straight forward. I think this is the way forward that I am going with unless I find it's impossible to make it work

ECU:

- You'll need to turn the IMMO off and tune if you want to but not required. I'm keeping all stock emissions equipment so there should be no CELs to deal with
- I'm also keeping the stock W8 cluster as it's already integrated with the rest of the car - I'll live with the RPM limit being 9k or whatever and I may have a missing glow plug light...that's to be confirmed

I think that's about it - I'll add to this list as I'm finishing this up and with the risk of jinxing myself up I'm going to say this has been the easiest most straight forward swap I've done to date Obviously having the B5 TDi as a donor vehicle sitting right next to me and having a manual W8 to start with helps alleviate most of the issues...

nitec said:

MJ - I'll be in London next week - I might drop by again to chat

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Lmk if you need some driveshafts then

she's alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyuqe-gWeQs

Congrats!

a few more pics

got new shafts installed



swapped the BHW and W8 lift pumps over...the W8 pump keeps 50psi up which is too high for the TDi



the BHW pump is a little shorter so it doesn't get all the way to the bottom of the canister - we'll have to see if that affects driveability



the plan was to use the BHW fans and rad carrier so I trimmed it up to use the IC pipe





obviously the most important upgrade



so - yesterday was a good day - ish...the engine started up and ran like clockwork...I\ve got a code for the fuel pump relay that will need to be erased since I'm using the W8 setup...I hit however two snags - the B7 accessory bracket that I wanted to use so I can take advantage of the W8 compressor will not work...everything lines up well but the pulleys interfere with the W8 large fan so unfortunately I'll have to revert to using the BHW setup...the good news there is I can use the stock BHW compressor lines and won't need have them made...I will have to do the electrical switch that MJ was describing above...

the second somewhat major issue is the clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there...I need to figure out if the slave cylinder is different between the W8 and the TDi...I didn't need to change the slave cylinder when I did the B7 swap and all the geometry should be the same between the two engines...any thoughts?

very few things left to tackle but I`m afraid this clutch problem may have me pulling the engine back out

pulled the slave cylinder and it basically disintegrated in my hands....it looks like it wasn't compressed in the transmission so when I pressed the pedal it just blew out so it seems its too short? Is the W8 clutch setup thicker possibly requiring a shorter slave cylinder? any help?

So you used the 01e gearbox right? DMF clutch? If so, did you use a spacer plate between gear box and engine?