stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

TotallyDiggingIt

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Location
Elkton, Maryland
TDI
2003 Jetta
Okay, I looked through all 23 pages and got some really good information. Is there any information or other thread that advised how to check, drain, change the manual transmission fluid (specifically on a 2003 Jetta)? I noticed that a couple of other posters on this thread and others have had throuble with 3rd, as I currently am having. What was the out come? Was it fluid or adjustment? Is there a how-to on manual transmission adjustment?
 

l_c

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Location
San Jose, CA USA
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Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
TotallyDiggingIt: The only adjustment I know of are the 2 shifter cables (the "shift linkage"). The self-adjustment procedure is in the Bentley guide, and I don't know how useful it is if you just want to make a minor adjustment ... it seems more useful if the thing gets really out of whack. I have an example of a discussion thread about that, In This LINK. What I do now is, occasionally I manually slide one of the cables (shift select or gate select) by a couple of little "teeth" (threads/grooves), one way or the other. I think I've got it almost just right at this point.

I don't know how to solve the 3rd-gear funny selection, but mine is doing a bit of that now. By the way, what transmission code is yours? Mine (2002) is an 02J type, code is EGR. (128k miles at present.)

I have another issue, where the reverse-gear selection makes a big clunk and tends to grind upon selecting reverse. After reading a couple of comments here and there (I think on forums.vwvortex.com), I have become accustomed to depressing the gear shift knob, near the left-most position (not up to R), then while keeping it pressed in, I nudge it over to the right, almost up to 3rd gear position, then nudge it back to left-most, then finally up to R. (All while keeping the clutch pedal depressed.) Now, I pretty much can avoid all of the thunk and grind when trying to select Reverse gear. (But, "WHY???")

I've seen one or two posts about how to drain and fill the gearbox oil, but there's almost nothing to it, you need to locate the two plugs (which should not be a problem) and then use a 17mm male hex key to remove both the drain plug and the fill plug. I picked up a 17mm fitting at my local auto parts store, and I use it with a socket wrench. The drain plug is kind of obscured by this pipe, I don't know which pipe it is, but I loosen a couple of clamps nearby and then the pipe slides out of the way somewhat. Here are a couple of forum threads, they're not perfect, but ... only 4 pictures are viewable on the 2nd page of this one, and this one seems to be for a different transmission type.
This FAQ thread on the Vortex doesn't show pictures of the procedure, but it has a lot of detailed information about changing that gear oil.
Regards, Larry.
 
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VWTDIBeetle

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l_c said:
TotallyDiggingIt:

I don't know how to solve the 3rd-gear funny selection, but mine is doing a bit of that now.
Reverse has no syncro. Your clutch may not be full engaged when you access reverse.
As a test, put the trans in first then move from first to reverse without letting the clutch back out when in neutral.
If there is no clashing, look for poor clutch engagement.
 
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l_c

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Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
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Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
About the clutch engagement: the one thing I can see and feel is that I'm
pushing the clutch pedal as far as it will go, toward the floor. Is there a method
to looking for poor clutch engagement, short of disassembly? Thanks; Larry.
 

TotallyDiggingIt

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Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Location
Elkton, Maryland
TDI
2003 Jetta
Haven't checked to see what transmission I have yet. 5spd on a 2003 Jetta GLS. Third gear is very notchy, but only after I have been driving for a while. On a cold transmision, third gear shifts fine.
 

speed185187

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Aug 12, 2007
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Hartland, MI
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Case 580 Super M,
TotallyDiggingIt said:
Haven't checked to see what transmission I have yet. 5spd on a 2003 Jetta GLS. Third gear is very notchy, but only after I have been driving for a while. On a cold transmision, third gear shifts fine.
If your car is the clone of mine, which it probally is, you have the EGR transmission. you can look on the plastic pipe inbetween the intercooler and intake, right next to the TB. There is a sticker there
 

vwlogue

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Aug 27, 2004
Location
Alexandria VA
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7th VW: 2011 SportWagen TDI & 6th: 2000 Golf TDI
Prices

1stvwparts prices per liter as of today:
G 005 000 -- $16.24
G 005 000 05 $10.09 (0.5 L size of G050)
G 052 726 A2 $9.64
G 052 171 A2 $24.94
G 052 911 A2 $19.45
G 052 911 A1 $18.19 (0.5 L size of G 052 911 per this page)
G 052 145 S2 $19.53

Edit: If G 50 synthetic still available and actually not that expensive, why use G 52? Can anyone point me to the TSB please?

Edit 2: The TSB is here. So if we're not experiencing the spider gear humming noise, G 50 is the juice right?
 
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wjdell

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May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
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06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
So does the number designation G052 mean synthetic.

Like G052195M2 is Longlife III
or DSG which is G052182A2
 

flyingbrick

Active member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Location
Austin, Texas USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI
vwlogue said:
Edit: If G 50 synthetic still available and actually not that expensive, why use G 52? Can anyone point me to the TSB please?

Edit 2: The TSB is here. So if we're not experiencing the spider gear humming noise, G 50 is the juice right?
I'm also interested in this question for our 2003 Jetta with the EGR/02J manual transmission. I was unable to find any mention of transmission fluid in the owner's manual.

After reading through all 23 pages of this thread, this is what I took away, in regards to the 2001-2003 EGR/02J cars:
  • VW claims G50 and G51 are 75W90. No viscosity is given for the others.
  • G50 (synthetic) has very different viscosity than both the mineral and synthetic versions of G52, and synthetic G55. Except for G052911A2, which has a viscosity similar to G50 and is listed on WorldImpex as a 75W90.
  • Some versions of Bentley say to use G50, some say mineral G52, and in one place the CD says to use "G50 or G55" for 02J transmissions.
  • Many dealers are suggesting the mineral G52 for this car.
  • There is a TSB that suggests replacing G50 with the synthetic G52 as a cure for spider gear humming noise. These fluids have very different viscosities and we have no idea which is better for the transmisson's longevity.
  • We really don't know what VW filled these cars with, since the TSB was issued before the car was manufactured. Several people have asked what the factory fill was, but nobody seems to know the answer. One person with a 2003 Jetta reported that humming started after changing with G50, suggesting that G50 was not the original fluid.
  • Argh!
I suspect VW is pushing mineral G52 (G052726A2) for the older Mk4's so they don't have to stock G50. Whether it's better for the transmission or not is a complete unknown. They could be pushing G52 to avoid the humming sound, at the expense of higher wear. Or maybe G52 is better all around. And maybe these cars were filled with synthetic G52 to begin with! The problem is, we don't know, and the dealers don't seem to know either.

I do know that VW is doing a bang-up job at taking something that should be very simple -- choosing the correct transmission fluid -- and complicating it with a variety of mysterious and mostly undocumented oils.
 

flyingbrick

Active member
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Location
Austin, Texas USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI
Yet another fluid?

I asked the dealership some of these questions, and the parts guy said the car was filled with G052726A2 from the factory, and that's what VW recommends. He then checked to see if that was superceded, and said that it was and that G060726A2 ($13.17/L) was now the recommended fluid. He didn't know if it was mineral or synthetic, but at that price I'm guessing it's not synthetic.

Has anyone ever heard of G060726A2 transmission fluid? It's not listed on WorldImpex or 1stvwparts.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Midwest
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Passsat
OEM VW Passat B5.5 ATF Fluid: List Addition

One addition I extracted from ETKA and World Impex for my 2005 Passat TDI GLS with its 2.0-liter PD engine:

G 052 162 A2 is $15.80 per liter at World Impex.

LINK: http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-at-fluid_238993.html

My Bentley CD-ROM indicates that G 052 162 A2 but Impex also lists OEM part G05-216-2A2 for the 2005 Passat TDI's tranny fluid. :confused:

No clue if it is mineral or synthetic but at 109,000 miles on the odometer, I will be switching OEM fluid out for OEM fluid. -Slopster:D
 
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VWTDIBeetle

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Sloppy Snood said:
No clue if it is mineral or synthetic but at 109,000 miles on the odometer, I will be switching OEM fluid out for OEM fluid. -Slopster:D
You will no doubt find the drained fluid will look the same as the new fluid going in.
Nothing is gained by draining at 100,000 miles.

Wait for 200,000 miles.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Passsat
VWTDIBeetle said:
You will no doubt find the drained fluid will look the same as the new fluid going in.
Nothing is gained by draining at 100,000 miles.

Wait for 200,000 miles.
How do you know this? Did you or someone else look B5.5 at Passat ATF at this mileage mark?

Not flaming you...just want to know what information you are using to make your statements. Thank you. -Scott
 
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VWTDIBeetle

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Sloppy Snood said:
How do you know this? Did you or someone else look B5.5 Passat ATF at this mileage mark?
Not flaming you...just want to know what information you are using to make your statements. Thank you. -Scott
Notice who was quoted in my post.
The poster has this vehicle:
'05 Passat TDI GLS Northern Green

This is different than the one in your question.

Statements are based on actual real life experiences.
 

Sloppy Snood

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Passsat
VWTDIBeetle said:
Notice who was quoted in my post.
The poster has this vehicle:
'05 Passat TDI GLS Northern Green

This is different than the one in your question.
It is?!??!?

I must be losing it....I thought a 2005 Passat was a B5.5 platform. :confused: Please educate me if this is incorrect.

Wikipedia says

"1996-2005. The B5 received a facelift in 2001. The resulting Passats are referred to as B5.5. The B5 Passat borrows its platform from the original A4, resulting in a logintudinal engine placement, which differs from the A platform which have been traditionally transversely mounted. B5 platform cars can be equipped with a multilink front suspension and a Torsen center differential."

and notes

Volkswagen Passat B5 (1996-2001)
Volkswagen Passat B5.5 (2001-2005)



VWTDIBeetle said:
Statements are based on actual real life experiences.
So do you have a 2005 Passat TDI where the ATF was changed at 109K or not? :)
 
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Dimitri16V

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DE
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01 Golf, 04 Golf
Motul 300 gear oil works fine for my PD. It's a lttle stiff in a cold morning but after a couple of minutes , it is smooth. I am sure it protects the tranny better than the thin factory fluid at higher temps.
 

concours

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2006.6 Jetta GLS 5 speed 125,000 miles, 2001.5 Jetta GLS 5-speed, Tornado Red, Monsoon w/CD changer
Dimitri16V said:
Motul 300 gear oil works fine for my PD. It's a lttle stiff in a cold morning but after a couple of minutes , it is smooth. I am sure it protects the tranny better than the thin factory fluid at higher temps.
But H O W are you "sure" it protects the tranny better?? Thicker goo isn't always better. The synchroniser size and design was calculated to work with the specified fluid... changing that changes the function. I mistakenly got the older G50 fluid and was disappointed with the cold weather operation (and the telltale "groan" when turning). Do tell....

[/IMG]
 

concours

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2006.6 Jetta GLS 5 speed 125,000 miles, 2001.5 Jetta GLS 5-speed, Tornado Red, Monsoon w/CD changer
"I do know that VW is doing a bang-up job at taking something that should be very simple -- choosing the correct transmission fluid -- and complicating it with a variety of mysterious and mostly undocumented oils."

Amen, Brother, well put.
 

zanzabar

Vendor
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Oct 18, 2002
Location
Petaluma, CA
TDI
2004 Jetta BEW 5spd (dual duty track car and daily driver beater)
AndyH said:
(Manual Tranny Fluids)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.6 = VW G50/G51
GL-4
185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
GL-5
..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
GL-4/-5
..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
GL-4/-5
132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
GL-5
177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90
GL-4
..... 76.6 14.2 = VW G052-911
133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1

183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) GL-?

208 41.6 9.1 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid GL-?
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 GL-?
..... 35.1 6.4 = VW G-055-726-A2 GL-?
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) GL-?


So, does anyone have the Vis@40C number for the mineral G52 (G 052 726 A2)?

Is it safe to assume that the mineral and sythetic OEM G52s are truly interchangeable then?

And from these results and this post in general, the most OEM-like aftermarket lubes are: Redline MTL, Amsoil MTF, and Redline D4?
 

StevenM

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Jan 11, 2008
Location
SCal
TDI
1997 Passat
Ok, this is wayyy confusing. From looking at the last chart it seems that
for 02A trannys G052-911 is the best choice, right?
G052-911 is thicker than the other G052s, which are really too thin for the older trannys. But... G052-911 is a tick lighter than G50 so maybe we might see a touch better mileage? G052 is now recommended by VW for the 02A.

Correct?

It seems that from all this debate at least one thing can be gathered and that is that you cannot go wrong with Genuine VW oil. As long as its the correct VW oil for your Tranny.

Qs

1) Still don't know if G052-911 is GL-4 or not or whether it matters.

2) Why are some folks sticking with the old G50 when the G052-911 is a newer VW oil of similar viscosity?

3) Is G052-911 the best for older (1997) 02A trannys or G50?

4) What is the difference between G50 and G052-911?
 
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StevenM

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Jan 11, 2008
Location
SCal
TDI
1997 Passat
My local VW dealer stocks lots of G50

G052-911 must be special ordered

Service dept. says my 1997 Passat takes G052

If VWs newer oil is G052-911 why don't they stock it?
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
StevenM, I refilled with G052-911 (2002, 02J-EGR transmission), because I
saw it on some VW fluids charts that were released in the past couple of years ('04 or '05?),
that specified the 911 for the 02J transmission. I had previously refilled mine using Redline
MT90 and had eventually become a bit less-than-satisfied with the shifting.

I was able to get a couple of bottles of 911 from 1stvwparts.com, it wasn't cheap but I'm
sure the price is better than what the local VW dealer would charge. I think it's been about
3 months now, and my syncros seem to work more smoothly now. It took a couple of
months before the shifting really settled down, to fully improve. Larry
 

StevenM

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Location
SCal
TDI
1997 Passat
AndyH said:
Folks,

I'd like to request that we include the year and transmission (especially if not the transmission the car came with when it was born). We're all commenting on how a certain product feels or performs in our car, but this info is basically meaningless with out knowing what the hardware is.

Tied to my first request/comment are these cautions:

- The first choice for any fluid should be one that meets the OEM required specifications and viscosity for your specific piece of equipment.

- Before one can select an alternate product, we must know the OEM requirement. The fluid properties, characteristics, and specifications were based on the engineering of the specific piece of hardware. Different transmissions will probably require different fluids.

Here’s a quick summary of what can happen if we experiment without proper info.

- A gearbox that was being monitored with oil analysis and vibration analysis failed catastrophically
- The gearbox was replaced with a new unit, refilled with fluid, and put on-line
- The replacement gearbox failed after two days of service
- The gearbox failed – twice – because ISO 680 viscosity fluid was used instead of the OEM recommended ISO 320 gear lube

Keep something in mind here – ISO 680 IS a recommended fluid for this gearbox – for a specific range of temperature and duty conditions. This was NOT a case where the operators decided to second-guess the engineers.

You can read the full article from this month’s “Practicing Oil Analysis” magazine on-line at http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=849&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis&title=Confirm%20OEM%20Recommendations%20-%20Replacing%20the%20Problem%20May%20Not%20Remove%20the%20Problem

Bottom line for us TDIers: Those of us with older cars – with transmissions designed during a time when the industry was using ‘universal’ fluids – should stick with the recommended 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic. If we select a GL-5 fluid, we can expect synchronizer problems from either friction modifiers (slipping) or extreme pressure additives (sticking, corrosion). If we select lower viscosity fluids than recommended (such as G052726A2, Synchromesh, or ATF), we can expect higher rates of wear due to lower film strength – higher wear means more friction, more heat, earlier fluid failure, and shorter seal life. If we select higher viscosity fluids, we can expect a drop in fuel economy, more generated heat because of the extra work required to overcome the resistance of the thicker fluid, stiffer shifting both hot and cold, and sticky synchronizers as a start. We’ll also have increased rates of wear and can have early bearing failure because the heavy fluid can’t get into narrow passages as well as the proper fluid.

The ‘Lesson Learned’ from the Noria / Practicing Oil Analysis article is this: “Recommended lubricants should also be confirmed if in question. Case in point: this gearbox suffered a level of wear that could have been avoided. It is safe to say that much useful life was lost from this unit to this common error. While operating conditions may occasionally warrant the use of a lubricant other than that recommended by the manufacturer, the OEM recommendation should be strongly considered as the starting point. Careful testing and documentation should be conducted prior to making a viscosity change in any piece of equipment.”

“While it is widely understood that using a lubricant too low in viscosity will result in insufficient lubricant film, it is also important to understand that using a lubricant too high in viscosity can produce similar problems. In this case there was an apparent loss of lubricant film due to the reduced oil flow through small passages, which were designed for a lower viscosity lubricant.”

Andy
Well said! But... what do you do if the Manufacturer VW changes it recomended oil/viscosity wildly?

Old recommend for 02A = G50 vis@100c 15.6. Good old GL-4
New VW recommend for 02A = G052-726-A2 vis@100c 6.3 GL rating unclear.

You make perfect sense to me when you say stick with the factory oil and that both too thick and/or too thin can cause damage. Appearantly its not so clear to VW. Or are we merely chasing our tails because VW wishes to consolidate its oils at the possible expense of the longevity of our older trannys?
 

Tweekster

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Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Location
Colorado
TDI
2004 Beetle
My wife's 04 PD New Beetle has over 12,000 miles on a fill of G 055 726 A2 and shifts very nicely with no grinding during this winter. We'll see how it holds out in the mid-summer heat. So far, so good.
 

dieseltwo

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
So for a 2001 Jetta TDI 5 speed what is the best VW trans lub, the G52-171-A2 at some $30..0 a liter? For what it is worth 1st and reverse share the same synro., as down shifting can cause a bit of a grind if shifting at too fast a speed when doing so.
 

dieseltwo

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
I do find that the trans in VW's do not take shifting too fast, you have to shift like an old lady no matter what is in them for lub. They are not a very good trans., that is a for sure.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Sounds like it's out of adjustment. How many miles/kms on it?

I can shift as fast as possible, no issues. My car's not super-modded, but still significantly more than stock.
 
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