Best Battery For My Tdi And Why?

Does your TDI have a VW Battery or not?


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HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
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2001 VW NB TDI
Simple TDI 101 Question:

I have a 2001 New Beetle TDI.....what battery should I use in my TDI Beetle and why?


How do I determine cold cranking amps (CCA), battery size and other things that matter (details), how do I read these things on my battery?

Can I test my battery (easily) and is this a good thing to do to ensure my battery is performing up to par?

Outside of defects & unlikely weird stuff, what are some probable causes for why my Interstate 85 month battery lost it's cranking capacity (strength/power/capacity) within 36 months?

Does this have something to do with the fact my car is a diesel?

These are some questions I have yet to find answers for on this forum. This info may be informative for newbies (like me). Inquiring minds like to know!!!!! :D

Winter is upon us, I'd like to know how to keep my cranking power in tip top shape!!!!! It's November in New England, hoping...NO WORRIES.....;)
 
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dieseldorf

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Joined
Oct 11, 2000
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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
HoneyBeetle said:
Simple TDI 101 Question:

I have a 2001 New Beetle TDI.....what battery should I use in my TDI Beetle and why?
Buy the best Gr 48 battery you can afford. You need a battery to start your car :)

Welcome aboard, Ms. Honey!
 
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Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
72 Ah minimum, 80 Ah preferred.

Your car requires less than 250 amps to crank it so whats with the concern of CCA?

Put down the marketing crack pipe and buy a battery with sufficient Amp Hour reserve.
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
dieseldorf said:
Buy the best Gr 48 battery you can afford. You need a battery to start your car :)

Welcome aboard, Ms. Honey!
Darlin' Dieseldorf..........remember, I'm a real newb! :eek:

I't be nice if all you wonderful VETS would speak plain english or at least explain what the hyrogliphics and acronyms mean until I get a grip on what's what. Remember, I'm a newb......(really laughing bunches!)

With that said.......what's a Gr 48?

Is this the size of the battery, or something else? Is it cranking amps, volts or what?

Also why a Gr 48? Is this a VW brand battery, Interstate or something else?
 
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HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
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Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
Now I know.....OEM means genuine VW part! Wow, I've always wanted to know what this ment.......

Perhaps someone should have a list of acronyms and stuff newbs should know so we can understand the TDI language........(giggle)!
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
Drivbiwire said:
72 Ah minimum, 80 Ah preferred.

Your car requires less than 250 amps to crank it so whats with the concern of CCA?

Put down the marketing crack pipe and buy a battery with sufficient Amp Hour reserve.
I'm assuming Ah means Amp Hours? .....HA, marketing crack pipe.....funny....

In case you didn't notice, most of us bite the marketing "bait" if we aren't trained to know any better or understand things intelligently.........how should I know?
 
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dieseldorf

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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
HoneyBeetle said:
:eek:

I't be nice if all you wonderful VETS would speak plain english or at least explain what the hyrogliphics and acronyms mean until I get a grip on what's what. Remember, I'm a newb......(really laughing bunches!)

With that said.......what's a Gr 48?
Ms. Honey, no hyrogliphics + acronyms = no fun :)

Gr. 48 just means Group 48...see chart below for a breakdown of the techno-jargon.

I guess if you prefer to keep it really simple (un-fun), get a battery from a VW dealership and ensure you tell them it's for a diesel (describes your engine and it's greater power requirement when starting ;) )

 
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ruking

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Joined
Mar 27, 2003
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San Jose area, CA
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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
HoneyBeetle said:
Simple TDI 101 Question:

I have a 2001 New Beetle TDI.....what battery should I use in my TDI Beetle and why?

A:

I would use the oem specified battery. Since they actually meet the oem specifications, it takes the guess work, "leg work" out of the equation. I have bought two oem batteries from the local dealer. Ask for the preferred customers discount. While there are a few other aftermarket vendors that offer TDI specific batteries, oem batteries are actually competitive in price. So for example, the Interstate product was actually more expensive than the oem dealer price. On almost every car I have ever owned except the VW TDI, I have not bought the oem battery, let alone from a dealer.


How do I determine cold cranking amps (CCA), battery size and other things that matter (details), how do I read these things on my battery?

A:

Sentence #2 to the first question above. Realistically at this point, TMI . (too much information)

However assuming you have the correct battery (old) you can read a lot of it off the unit itself. Another is looking for the short hand like 48 G.

Another is check the technical specifications of the oem owners manual, Bentley's (shop manuals) Again dealers and aftermarket vendors have the information to make sure you get the (SIZED") right product.



Can I test my battery (easily) and is this a good thing to do to ensure my battery is performing up to par?

A: Yes and no. Sure you can ask a VW dealer to do it. They sometimes offer specials doing specifically that. Tire stores (that sell batteries) have testers that even give a print out testing your charging system and specifically the condition of your battery. Indeed (my) the local Interstate retailer has the tools and offers that service.

Of course, you can buy tools to DIY. You can even go to a GTG to find out how to use the various tools, like a volt meter. So if root canal and a funeral sounds more appealing....

So for example, my oem battery lasted 33 mo. Tests of the charging systems revealed no issues. So I bought an oem replacement battery and R/R'd the old battery: 2 mins tops & DNDOT (do NOT DROP on TOE) . Then, the old battery was recycled Again DNDOT. So I bought and deployed a battery trickle charger @ $50. (Battery Tender Plus, if you might be interested) 36 mo later, the new battery died with no warning (like the first) and the documentation gave me a cheaper (now) 3rd oem battery and @ less than preferred discount price. (minus the prorated portion)

Outside of defects & unlikely weird stuff, what are some probable causes for why my Interstate 85 month battery lost it's cranking capacity (strength/power/capacity) within 36 months?

A:

The good news is you have 49 mo of prorated or even possible replacement credit (R/R (remove and replace at no charge ) N/C. .The bad news is you have to use it. (or should) I would take advantage of it, if the utimate price you pay is cheaper than the dealer's price on a correct oem battery.

Assuming it is the correct battery with the correct strength, power, capacity, etc. there are any number of causes. They all "conspire" if you will to low or short battery life. It actually starts with the design and DEMAND. The VW charging systems are not designed to renew/replace your battery charge (in usage) close to or @ 100%. So as a result unless you "replace the charge" aka use a battery trickle charger) it just supplies power until... it doesn't supply power anymore (in your case 36 mo, in mine 33 mo) . In addition, you literally have 24/7 demand from a variety of sources. Sure I can tick off the sources, but I will probably leave out many. Is it real cold? Is it real hot?....

Does this have something to do with the fact my car is a diesel?

A:

Yes, glow plugs for example, have HUGE energy demands. Do you use A/C, heater? Do you run a GPS? Got a 75 to 200 watt stereo amplifier? Wash your car with the stereo on, etc. etc. ?

These are some questions I have yet to find answers for on this forum. This info may be informative for newbies (like me). Inquiring minds like to know!!!!! :D

Winter is upon us, I'd like to know how to keep my cranking power in tip top shape!!!!! It's November in New England, hoping...NO WORRIES.....;)
Permit me to put the answers in your quote after each one ? I see some of the more veteran members have already assisted.
 
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Powder Hound

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Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
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'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer (or Orignal Equipment of the Manufacturer) Basically referring to either what comes on the car from the factory of to genuine replacement parts procured by whatever means.

Gr 48 means a group 48 battery. The 48 is a standardized size designated by whatever the industry association that tries to standardize things for all the manufacturers.

VW supplies a couple of different sized batteries. The trick with a TDI is to get the heavy expensive one that will fit in your car while providing the oomph needed to light up the glow plugs as well as crank it fast enough to start, all while enduring sub-zero temperatures. VW, being a euro-company designates an amp-hour (Ah) capacity rather than cranking amps (CA) or cold cranking amps (CCA) which are common in this side of the pond. This disparity has generated maybe 1/10 the 'discussion' about which is better and what battery to get as the 'discussions' about the proper oil to use, so it is a formidible amount of text, to say the least.

If your battery has died prematurely, or seems like it might not make it through the next winter, the most likely culprit is a voltage regulator that provides insufficient voltage to fully charge the battery. Most people seem oblivious to the fact that with the current batteries being manufactured for automotive use, calcium is used for plate strength. This is so that a low-maintenance or no-maintenance battery won't dry out quickly due to evaporating the water out of the acid. (Actually it is disassociated via electrolysis, but that's another discussion.) These plates require at least 14 volts to give you a full charge. If you only get 13.5 volts from your alternator, the battery will work well for a time, but its life will be shortened due to chronic undercharging.

I don't know why Bosch alternators frequently supply less than 14 volts, since Bosch knows that for 30 years (at least, since no maintenance battereis have been around), alternator supply voltage must be higher. Many times, a regulator that specs 14.5 volts will only supply 13.5 right from the box (Been there, done that - BTDT).

Lots of short trips don't fully charge a battery, either.

If you make short trips, then maybe once a week or so you could plug in a battery charger and hook it up to your battery. Or take a long trip (30-40 minutes) once a week.

Check the voltage with a voltmeter while the engine is running. This will tell you if the alternator has a chance of recharging the battery. It will not tell you if the alternator can produce sufficient amps to recharge the battery in a short period of time.

Check the voltage while nothing is going on. This will tell you if your battery has a full charge or not. If the battery has been on a charger but shows less than 12.6 volts, then it cannot accept a full charge.

Check the voltage while cranking the engine. This will tell you if your battery is the reason for slow cranking. I don't know the exact numbers to look for, but basically, the lower the voltage while cranking, the closer to death your battery condition.

Many shops (e.g. Autozone) will test your battery for free. This test is pretty easy. More difficult is testing the alternator output. But to me, if the alternator can't/won't put out more than 14 volts, then something needs to be done, and usually that means new voltage regulator if it is a separately replaceable item (some of them aren't).

HTH (hope that helps.)
YMMV - your mileage may vary. But it is often used elsewhere such that the real meaning is something like, "this was my experience, and yours might be different."
"marketing crack pipe" - that's DB's loving way of telling you he thinks you know nothing and should do exactly as he says after kissing his feet for deigning to comment in this thread. (BTW-he thinks the rest of us are pretty clueless too, so you're in good company.)
 
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otm646

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Location
Metro Detroit
TDI
1998 AHU Jetta.
Just go for the OE dealer battery, you will not be disappointed. They run $90- $110

Whatever you do stay away from a walmart battery.
 
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T_D_I_POWER

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Joined
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Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
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'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
I would go with OEM Energizer E48 875 CA 700 CCA from SAM's. Can't beat the price and performance.



Why?
-More CCA 700 vs 640
-More CCA/dollar 12.73 A/dollar vs meager 7.11 A/dollar or 5.82 A/dollar
-$35-55 more in your pocket
-3-year free replacement, 8-year prorated warranty

Comforting to know to have battery with CCA vs Ah

SAE Home > Publications > Papers

Requirements and Norms of Sli-Batteries in the North European Climate

Document Number: 890015 Date Published: February 1989
Author(s):
M. T. Loponen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland
A. Nieminen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland

Abstract:
SLI battery norms effect the performance of a battery in cold starts both directly and indirectly. The indirect influence is for instance due to the prevailing figure of merit, CCA amps (SAE) or 20 h capacity (DIN). The European norms seem to lead to batteries with insufficient cranking power at low temperatures. The SAE norm encourages the manufacturer both directly and indirectly to lower the battery resistance, which results in a higher cranking power and thus in a battery better suited to northern weather conditions.


OE = Original Equipment parts that you buy from the stealership packaged in VW Audi boxes w/ VW Audi logos etc.
As well as known as Genuine Part - A




OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer parts that you buy packaged in the mfr's own boxes & logos.
I.e. Fram filters sold at Wallyworld, are OEM parts.



Rev. A - Pictures added
 
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otm646

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Location
Metro Detroit
TDI
1998 AHU Jetta.
How does the knowledge of CCAs make this superior to the OEM battery? You save money I agree but the engineering behind the OE solution is still exceeds the requirements of the vehicle.

Have you ever had a VW not start in the dead of winter due to an OEM battery in good condition just not having enough CCA's?
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
here's another vote for an OEM battery from the dealer. One thing you want to do when you go to the dealer- make sure they know this is for the tdi. (that'd be the 72Ah and NOT the 61Ah).

Oh and if that is the original battery on your 01 Beetle, then it is definitely time to replace it BEFORE winter sets in ;)
 
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T_D_I_POWER

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'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
otm646 said:
How does the knowledge of CCAs make this superior to the OEM battery? You save money I agree but the engineering behind the OE solution is still exceeds the requirements of the vehicle.

Have you ever had a VW not start in the dead of winter due to an OEM battery in good condition just not having enough CCA's?
DIN Ah is tested at a balmy temp. of 80° F (26.7° C).

As you can see from the chart provided by DD, SAE CA & CCA are tested in RWE - Real World Environment - 32° F (0° C) & 0° F (-17.8° C) respectively. Just like SAE bhp RWE vs DIN bhp LWE (Lab World Environment)

The OE battery moLL, died 2 years ago in a cold and damped 40° F temp. I tested later on before taking it back to Sam's, and it still has enough juice to start the TDI @ 60° F (15.6° C)

http://www.autotechdst.com/buy/201/57412-Battery-MOLL-57412-BCI-48/index.html

That Christmas, my family and I drove to big TO, and celebrated in the mountain ski resort with friends and relatives. The temp. drop to 10 to -10° F (-12 to -23° C) in the evening. The battery w/ 700 CCA had no problem starting the TDI engine w/o engine pre-heater. It started rough, but it took only one crank.


I called the owner and distributor, of this moLL battery in Quebec, Canada. He told me he doesn't carry moLL batteries anymore. The reasons being, is that the batteries can't cope with deep cold temp. in Northern Quebec. To many unhappy German car customers whose cars can't be started in Quebec deep cold winter. Now he only sells Exide batteries.
 
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dogdots

Vendor
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
I would recommend the OEM battery. If it is more, it is not much more. My original battery lasted from March '02 (when my car was built in Mexico :eek: ) until last month when I decided to replace it before the cold comes. It was still ok, but the new one really spins the starter faster and it starts quicker.

So my original battery lasted 172,000 miles and 7 1/2 years. For $92.00 I think that is a good deal.
 

Vince Waldon

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Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
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2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
T_D_I_POWER said:
DIN Ah is tested at a balmy temp. of 80° F (26.7° C).

As you can see from the chart provided by DD, SAE CA & CCA are tested in RWE - Real World Environment - 32° F (0° C) & 0° F (-17.8° C) respectively. Just like SAE bhp RWE vs DIN bhp LWE (Lab World Environment)
Yup.

Our batteries have one job, and one job only: start the car. After the car starts the alternator takes over supplying all the electrical energy the car needs.

When we start the car we need lots of amps... first to power the glow plugs, and then even more to crank the engine... several hundred amps for 20-30 seconds. Cold weather makes it much worse: the engine is much harder to turn over due to increased internal friction *and* the battery's chemical efficiency dramatically drops off with temperature.. a double-whammy.

"AH" is a European rating of how much current the battery can deliver for 20 hours at room temperature. OEM is 80 AH, so the battery can deliver 4 amps for 20 hours at room temperature. Interesting, but in and of itself not very helpful on a cold winter day for starting purposes.

"CCA" is a NA rating of how much current the battery can deliver at 0F (-18C) for 30 seconds and still maintain a cell voltage of at least 1.2V / cell. For those of us with cold winters a much more interesting spec. OEM is 640 CCA.

In the end it all works out... a given "group number" (ie the battery's physical size) puts a practical size limit on the volume of plates the battery can contain... and this sets the AH and CCA ratings, plus and minus a bit, at least for all standard lead-acid batteries (Optimas and deep cycle batteries the exception since they are based on slightly different chemistries).

Bottom line: for places where extreme weather is a factor the CCA rating is probably of more interest, but in the end in our cars the physical size ("group number") is usually the limiting factor, unless you do some cutting of the battery box. OEM batteries from VW have very suitable ratings both for the European spec (AH) and the NA spec (CCA) and are often competitively priced... also one less thing for the dealer to hold against you if you ever are required to get them to troubleshoot an electrical issue. :eek:
 

PeterV

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Location
So, NH.
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 sp.
To prolong expensive battery life a TDI heater is a good thing also.

Come and meet TDIers at the dyno day Dec 5. See the meets east coast.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
optimas

bigwoode said:
What does the congregation think of Optima Red Top Batteries?
i could never justify paying more $$ for less performance, especially when the OE spec'd batteries have such a good track record.
 

PeterV

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Location
So, NH.
TDI
2000 Jetta 5 sp.
I have 2 of them (red, Orange) plus the orig unit and would not get them again. But I Also have TDI heaters and those darn 5 garages!
 

bigwoode

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Location
Buffalo, NY
TDI
Hunting - previous 2001.5 Jetta
PeterV said:
I have 2 of them (red, Orange) plus the orig unit and would not get them again. But I Also have TDI heaters and those darn 5 garages!
I would like to attend one of your meets when they start up again...

But I think I am going to get an OEM battery, my car came with a Red Top, and its getting to be a pretty slow crank in the morning.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
bigwoode said:
What does the congregation think of Optima Red Top Batteries?
Waste of money, as they are not large enough to handle the demands of starting a TDI in WINTER.

Now - if you can find an AGM battery (same type of construction as the Optima) with sufficient Ah / CCA (think comparable to at least the Group 48 of the TDI NB) - now you're talking.
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
scooperhsd said:
Waste of money, as they are not large enough to handle the demands of starting a TDI in WINTER.

Now - if you can find an AGM battery (same type of construction as the Optima) with sufficient Ah / CCA (think comparable to at least the Group 48 of the TDI NB) - now you're talking.
Here it's made here in USA

http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/default.aspx?pageid=454
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
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Location
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'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
Vince Waldon said:
Yup.

Our batteries have one job, and one job only: start the car. After the car starts the alternator takes over supplying all the electrical energy the car needs.

When we start the car we need lots of amps... first to power the glow plugs, and then even more to crank the engine... several hundred amps for 20-30 seconds. Cold weather makes it much worse: the engine is much harder to turn over due to increased internal friction *and* the battery's chemical efficiency dramatically drops off with temperature.. a double-whammy.

"AH" is a European rating of how much current the battery can deliver for 20 hours at room temperature. OEM is 80 AH, so the battery can deliver 4 amps for 20 hours at room temperature. Interesting, but in and of itself not very helpful on a cold winter day for starting purposes.

"CCA" is a NA rating of how much current the battery can deliver at 0F (-18C) for 30 seconds and still maintain a cell voltage of at least 1.2V / cell. For those of us with cold winters a much more interesting spec. OEM is 640 CCA.

In the end it all works out... a given "group number" (ie the battery's physical size) puts a practical size limit on the volume of plates the battery can contain... and this sets the AH and CCA ratings, plus and minus a bit, at least for all standard lead-acid batteries (Optimas and deep cycle batteries the exception since they are based on slightly different chemistries).

Bottom line: for places where extreme weather is a factor the CCA rating is probably of more interest, but in the end in our cars the physical size ("group number") is usually the limiting factor, unless you do some cutting of the battery box. OEM batteries from VW have very suitable ratings both for the European spec (AH) and the NA spec (CCA) and are often competitively priced... also one less thing for the dealer to hold against you if you ever are required to get them to troubleshoot an electrical issue. :eek:
X10. You are right on the money.

It's always takes a Canadian to explain the importance of having a battery with high power CCA to crank an engine, Diesel engine specially, in a deep freeze temperature.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Would you 'CCA guys' concede that any battery with sufficient capacity would also have enough CCA for any situation?

do you posit that any battery with at least 640 CCA will last through its warranty period in a tdi application?
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
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'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
tditom said:
Would you 'CCA guys' concede that any battery with sufficient capacity would also have enough CCA for any situation?

do you posit that any battery with at least 640 CCA will last through its warranty period in a tdi application?
I would say 650 CCA is the min. in deep freeze temp. Of ocurse you want to get more Amps for a given size battery if possible, that fits the battery compartment. I buy meat by the pound, buy fuel by the gallon etc. So, too, I buy a battery by the Amps.

Here's the tricky part. DIN Ah spec battery, generally displays the SAE equivalent Amps like shown below

G48 DIN 74 Ah

http://www.autotechdst.com/image-large.php?duid=153

So, you have to take that 680 A as the CA. Therfore, CCA = CA x 0.80 = 680 x .8 = 544 Amps

G94R DIN 80Ah

http://www.autotechdst.com/image-large.php?duid=120

One has to be really carefull if he or she cosiders buying a DIN spec battery, and need to confirm weather the A is CA or CCA.
One thing I like about SAE spec battery, it is much simpler to buy. I don't have to have my calculator to convert DIN Amp to SAE
and wonder is that CA or CCA? The SAE specs battery clearly displays CA & CCA on the label/placard.
 
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