New car Prices

di96

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Location
Portland
TDI
2013 JSW
.
.....I would say you're a shrewd dude.
$25400 is my best so far........I'm having a beech of a time even locating a Candy/Cornsilk 6M w/o Pano/NAV..............

Consider writing a book..............I'd buy it!
ez
Find the the closest volume dealer to you and speak with them, they are the ones who can offer the best deals.

So many options/trims available on cars comparing prices is much easier if everyone speaks relative to invoice or MSRP pricing. Several websites offer this information (truecar, edmunds, costcoauto) to name a few.


I would start with the internet sales department, they need to get you on the lot so they are willing to offer lower prices up front. I wouldn't settle on a price though, wait to truly negotiate in person, but this way you are starting your negotiations at the price offered from the internet sales team. (~$500 below invoice is usually a good starting point to get you on the lot). If your up for it, push them more, I would say anything with a DSG should be about ~$1,500 below invoice. 6 speed ~$1,000-$1,300 below invoice. The is what I think the market is currently on these cars, it will continue to soften while everyone waits for the MK7 to arrive.

Whatever car you decide to go with, BE WILLING TO WALK OUT if the deal isn't perfect for you. Buying a car is a business transaction, nothing personal. They will take you more seriously next time if you decide to step foot on that lot.
 

TDIAustin

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2011 JSW, MT, Red/Cornsilk
Flew to Greenville SC to pick up our 2011 JSW from Steve White VW there. Has premium package (Pano, GPS, 17" wheels), MT, red/cornsilk, new tires plus a few other minor goodies the salesman scrounged up for me.

Paid $21,500-it had 26K on it plus it's certified so that's 2 yr, 24K additional warranty, for a total remaining of 39 months, 36K. Drove back to Austin; no problems, 42 mpg. All around, we were happy since we couldn't find what we wanted locally. To us, the VW Certification Warranty was very important. Just another comparison for you.
 

talindsay

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Location
Minneapolis
TDI
2013 JSW TDI
Since different states tax new vehicles very differently, it's not too useful to compare OTD prices outside your state. Our brand new Moonrock/black TDI JSW 6M w/o pano/gps was $24,500 before taxes; TTL added almost exactly $1500 to that.
 

Analogeezer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen 6MT
Call me crazy, but a $10K premium is insane for a TDI. (A base S, 2.5L gasser goes for around $20K in the not-so-cheap DC area.).

I hope diesel costs about the same as regular gas where you are. The EPA bases annual use on 12,000 miles per year. EPA figures a TDI will burn about 300 gallons of diesel. EPA figures the S will burn about 400 gallons of regular. 100 gallons savings. But if diesel is $4 per gallon and regular gas is $3 per gallon, the annual fuel costs are the same...10 miles per dollar.

TDIs are generally better equipped than gassers. So there's no apples to apples comparison. And the only way to get a manual gasser is to buy the cheapest JSW, the base S. That means you can't get the panoramic roof and that you can only get a black cloth interior. But, assuming there's a loan involved, is the difference worth borrowing all of that extra money?

There are plenty of reasons to get a TDI. And I'm very pleased with mine. But I wouldn't want to get raked over the coals financially for the privilege of owning it.
A lot of people forget so many vehicles (especially the ones you would actually want to drive these days) run premium fuel, the car I am replacing with my TDI JSW uses premium, as does the wife's MINI as does my Mazdaspeed Miata. I filled up for the first time yesterday and at the station I used diesel was two cents LESS a gallon; a lot of the other stations diesel was 5 to 10 cents less.

Based on about the same price for premium vs. diesel I will be able to cover increased personnel property taxes and insurance costs by my fuel savings alone, that is over a 10 year old vehicle with lower taxes and insurance costs.

I didn't buy the TDI solely for the economy or expect to recoup all the expense over the gasser version, but the extended range and crazy torque do have their allure.

Analogeezer
 

Analogeezer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen 6MT
Call chris at langhorne. You shouldn't pay more than 28.
+1 I just bought my car from Chris last week, he's your man if you want a JSW TDI (or any TDI for that matter).

Super easy deal and counting the train ride ($70) and tolls ($12) going back along with buying a friend dinner ($60) the night before (I stayed with him for free) I still came in about $400 under the cheapest deal I could negotiate.

VW is running a thing through the end of the month where if you take their money, they pay up to $500 of your first payment - and there is no prepayment penalty so you can take the deal and then pay it off with your own money if you choose to do so. 0% for 36 months, 1.90% for up to 66 months.

He is a great guy to deal with and my deal did not change by a PENNY from what he quoted me, their doc fee ($131) was also reasonable compared to a lot of other people.

WELL worth the trip IMHO....

Analogeezer
 

jni3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Location
pennsylvania
TDI
2012 sportwagen tdi / 2012 golf tdi
+1 I just bought my car from Chris last week, he's your man if you want a JSW TDI (or any TDI for that matter).

Super easy deal and counting the train ride ($70) and tolls ($12) going back along with buying a friend dinner ($60) the night before (I stayed with him for free) I still came in about $400 under the cheapest deal I could negotiate.

VW is running a thing through the end of the month where if you take their money, they pay up to $500 of your first payment - and there is no prepayment penalty so you can take the deal and then pay it off with your own money if you choose to do so. 0% for 36 months, 1.90% for up to 66 months.

He is a great guy to deal with and my deal did not change by a PENNY from what he quoted me, their doc fee ($131) was also reasonable compared to a lot of other people.

WELL worth the trip IMHO....

Analogeezer
why didn't you go to karen radley last month when they were offering $4K off all cars on the lot?
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
Call me crazy, but a $10K premium is insane for a TDI.
Besides the fact that that $10k number is not even close to accurate if you're comparing apples to apples, what you blatantly fail to consider is resale value and true cost of ownership. You seem to think that true cost of ownership begins and ends with purchase cost. That couldn't be more wrong.
 

DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)
. . . anything with a DSG should be about ~$1,500 below invoice. . . . The is what I think the market is currently on these cars
What are you basing that on?


it will continue to soften while everyone waits for the MK7 to arrive.
When is the MK7 Jetta TDI due?
 

jni3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Location
pennsylvania
TDI
2012 sportwagen tdi / 2012 golf tdi

Analogeezer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen 6MT
why didn't you go to karen radley last month when they were offering $4K off all cars on the lot?
Because they didn't have a car in the spec I wanted (Tornado Red, Cornsilk interior, no pano or NAV).

So you are saying if I had gone there, including VA tax (3% of the sales price) I could have bought a new JSW TDI for $21,500 out the door?

Analogeezer
 

Analogeezer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen 6MT
why didn't you go to karen radley last month when they were offering $4K off all cars on the lot?
I just checked out your link, SIX JSW's total, NONE with a manual. That's a fail for me....

Like most DC area dealers they don't stock a lot of manuals and not a lot of base cars.

Analogeezer
 

Outrider6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Location
Arlington, VA
TDI
JSW 2011
If You Want to Dig Deeper...

Besides the fact that that $10k number is not even close to accurate if you're comparing apples to apples, what you blatantly fail to consider is resale value and true cost of ownership. You seem to think that true cost of ownership begins and ends with purchase cost. That couldn't be more wrong.
There is no "apples to apples" comparison when you are comparing a $30K TDI JSW with a $20K JSW S. You'll have to live with "edible fruit."

Remember that the OP set the $30K price on the TDI. I set the $20K price on the S. I gave a reasonably thorough description of the differences between the extremes of a fully loaded TDI and a base S, so this is something that I understand. The premise of my post was "considering the purchase price difference, accept the S as sufficiently equipped and examine its value."

I took a pass on resale for a couple of reasons...but I will upfront acknowledge that TDI JSWs have insanely good resale. So much so that I ended up buying a new TDI rather than a used one because it was, in my view, a better deal to go new. But resale is only a factor if one actually resells the car. I suspect that TDIs will hold their value in the long run, but I think that's dependent on proven durability, not on assumed durability, something I'll get to in a bit. You should also consider that the S has good resale value, too, and, with its lower price tag, that it doesn't have as far to drop in price.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room concerning total cost of ownership is maintenance...long-term maintenance. (Did you "blatantly fail to consider" this? ;)) I think too many owners just assume diesel = reliable based on older, less complex, dirty burning diesel technology. That's not what's in a modern CR TDI, and the jury is out on how well CR TDI technology will hold up. There are some good news stories from owners who've really loaded up the miles on their cars, but nobody has a 10-12 year old CR TDI yet, so we don't know exactly what to expect. That said, a CR TDI owner who bails after 5-6 years and under, say, 100,000K probably won't have any big service/repair bills. (These figures are simple speculation, though probably not unreasonable.) But, at some point, the complexity of the TDI will prove to be expensive. Why?

The HPFP should not be expected to live forever. It will be expensive to replace as a service part, perhaps prohibitively so if it fails catastrophically. (Some here report that exploding HPFPs have resulted in $10K repair bills.) The DPF will also get clogged up eventually, necessitating replacement, as cleaning the part is generally thought to be uneconomical. The turbocharger system is another potential maintenance liability, simply because they do wear out eventually. (There is also the potential for issues caused by the intercooler.) These, and any other CR turbo diesel-specific maintenance/repair liabilities factor into TCO, too. And, if maintenance/repair of these expensive components becomes common, expect resale to suffer as a result.

The inline five gasser has none of these complex engine accessories; therefore it won't have related failures...keeping its TCO down. The inline five already has a good record for durability, even if it is not otherwise exemplary. The JSW chassis should be assumed to be equal between the models, since it is common between them. So I don't think the S has much to lose in a very long-term TCO comparison...

IMO, there are some usage scenarios where the S will prove to be a good choice in the long run. Think very short trips, where the diesel doen't have time to get up to temperature. Think low annual mileage. You may not drive this way, but others do.

This isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition. Each engine has strengths and weaknesses. People ought to fully consider each option and make the choice that works best for them.
 
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DieselMann99

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Location
Westchester County NY
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI w/ Premium, DSG (Buyback Nov 2018); 2013 Jetta TDI (bought Dec 2018); also, bought a CPO 2017 Passat TSI (Nov 2018)

jni3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Location
pennsylvania
TDI
2012 sportwagen tdi / 2012 golf tdi
Because they didn't have a car in the spec I wanted (Tornado Red, Cornsilk interior, no pano or NAV).

So you are saying if I had gone there, including VA tax (3% of the sales price) I could have bought a new JSW TDI for $21,500 out the door?

Analogeezer
they were taking $4k off msrp from the start. i'm sure you could've still negotiated more off. but that's a whole lot better than other dealers would go in the area. i know because i've tried with all the vw dealerships from baltimore out to hagerstown and down to woodbridge.

I just checked out your link, SIX JSW's total, NONE with a manual. That's a fail for me....

Like most DC area dealers they don't stock a lot of manuals and not a lot of base cars.

Analogeezer
i'm not sure what all they have now. but waldorf had a few manuals a couple months ago. but they are also owned by the same folks at alexandria. so they usually have a good inventory.
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
There is no "apples to apples" comparison when you are comparing a $30K TDI JSW with a $20K JSW S. You'll have to live with "edible fruit."

Remember that the OP set the $30K price on the TDI. I set the $20K price on the S. I gave a reasonably thorough description of the differences between the extremes of a fully loaded TDI and a base S, so this is something that I understand. The premise of my post was "considering the purchase price difference, accept the S as sufficiently equipped and examine its value."

I took a pass on resale for a couple of reasons...but I will upfront acknowledge that TDI JSWs have insanely good resale. So much so that I ended up buying a new TDI rather than a used one because it was, in my view, a better deal to go new. But resale is only a factor if one actually resells the car. I suspect that TDIs will hold their value in the long run, but I think that's dependent on proven durability, not on assumed durability, something I'll get to in a bit. You should also consider that the S has good resale value, too, and, with its lower price tag, that it doesn't have as far to drop in price.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room concerning total cost of ownership is maintenance...long-term maintenance. (Did you "blatantly fail to consider" this? ;)) I think too many owners just assume diesel = reliable based on older, less complex, dirty burning diesel technology. That's not what's in a modern CR TDI, and the jury is out on how well CR TDI technology will hold up. There are some good news stories from owners who've really loaded up the miles on their cars, but nobody has a 10-12 year old CR TDI yet, so we don't know exactly what to expect. That said, a CR TDI owner who bails after 5-6 years and under, say, 100,000K probably won't have any big service/repair bills. (These figures are simple speculation, though probably not unreasonable.) But, at some point, the complexity of the TDI will prove to be expensive. Why?

The HPFP should not be expected to live forever. It will be expensive to replace as a service part, perhaps prohibitively so if it fails catastrophically. (Some here report that exploding HPFPs have resulted in $10K repair bills.) The DPF will also get clogged up eventually, necessitating replacement, as cleaning the part is generally thought to be uneconomical. The turbocharger system is another potential maintenance liability, simply because they do wear out eventually. (There is also the potential for issues caused by the intercooler.) These, and any other CR turbo diesel-specific maintenance/repair liabilities factor into TCO, too. And, if maintenance/repair of these expensive components becomes common, expect resale to suffer as a result.

The inline five gasser has none of these complex engine accessories; therefore it won't have related failures...keeping its TCO down. The inline five already has a good record for durability, even if it is not otherwise exemplary. The JSW chassis should be assumed to be equal between the models, since it is common between them. So I don't think the S has much to lose in a very long-term TCO comparison...

IMO, there are some usage scenarios where the S will prove to be a good choice in the long run. Think very short trips, where the diesel doen't have time to get up to temperature. Think low annual mileage. You may not drive this way, but others do.

This isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition. Each engine has strengths and weaknesses. People ought to fully consider each option and make the choice that works best for them.

Well said. Just one failure of the dpf almost eliminates the fuel savings. One failure in the hpfp surely does away with all fuel savings. The hpfp issues, IMO, sounds like it has clear issues with wear rate. Damages happen quickly with bad fuel but are simply delayed with good fuel. Delayed as in post warranty but well before you recoup the price difference in fuel savings. He'll it would be cheaper to buy a hybrid battery than to replace a fuel pump.
 
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